Pescatarian vs. Vegetarian...

I don't think I'm a true Vegatarian, at least not yet. I can do w/o most meat b/c it tends to upset my stomach and it really isn't good for my particular digestive system. Seafood however doesn't cause me pain, I love the taste and I eat a couple servings of fish a week. I completely failed at being a vegan, that lasted for about 2 weeks. But I've been vegatarian off and on for the last 3 years. My longest stint was a period of about 8 mos. The last time I tried, I was able to go about 3-4 months.  I would like to try to be vegetarian again, but I'm having the hardest time giving up seafood. I'm a pretty logical person (hopefully my wife would attest to this). I don't really have a logical reason for giving up seafood other than "Being a vegetarian is healthier".  But that doesn't seem to be enough. With meat, I could say "Meat upsets my stomach", and then it's easy to quit. But with seafood... no such problem. 

Any advice? Or maybe I should just stay eating seafood? And for those who like eating seafood, do you notice any health benefits? For those who don't like seafood, why not? THANKS!

Original Post by disease_of_ease:

Original Post by soaraway:

G-d gave us animals to eat. End of story. They are ANIMALS. NOT PEOPLE.

Humans are animals as well, we are part of the great apes. It's cool with me if you want to think otherwise, though. It's your life.

And I do, obviously, think otherwise.  You might think of yourself as a glorified monkey... but I am not.

Original Post by jblarghp:

Oh "xdarthveganx" aren't you just leaps and bounds above all us average folk. You're just a perfect example of what every person should aspire to be. Thank god there's people like you in the world, I'm sure your personal eating habits are impacting the world greatly.

I'm sure with you being so dedicated to animal activism, you're also just as concerned about people's rights as well. I'm positive you make sure you aren't wearing anything made of leather. You  also probably read all your clothing labels and do all the research necessary to make sure the factories your clothing was made in treat their employee's well.  You make sure there's not child labor involved and that they are getting proper wages, right?

Or do you even bother with clothing! I mean, come on...all the pollution factories produce, that's no good for the environment!!!

NO, but seriously, you are not better than anyone.

Actually I try to buy most of my clothes used and will not purchase anything made in a sweatshop, so yes your statements about me would be true. Also when I do buy clothing it is usually made with organic cotton.

It is not about being better than anyone, I was responding to the person who said that my ideas were "insane". I simply argued that it is this culture that is insane. Protecting our land-base should be our #1 priority, without that we have nothing.

What kind of planet will be left for the next generation of children? what about the generation after that? it is our responsibility to make whatever changes are necessary to ensure the health of this planet for all living beings. Human and animal alike.

P.S. I don't believe in God.

"You might think of yourself as a glorified monkey... but I am not"

Before making a statement like this, you should actually educate yourself about evolution, because you're coming off as ignorant.

ANYWAYS-"xdarthveganx"-The overall point I was trying to get across was that I'm sure there are things about your lifestyle that are harmful to the environment (whether you are aware of them or not.) You came off as extremely preachy to me, so I was just trying to point out that you're not perfect either. I appologize if I mistook your ehm....errr...passion as "preachyness" though.

As far as the "I don't believe in God" statement, I'm not sure if that was directed towards me or the person who doesn't know anything about evolution.  Regardless, I don't believe in anything that doesn't have sufficient proof to back it up either. I'm just not sure what that has to do with anything.

Doomsayers always say the world will collapse. The one thing that they do not remember is that human ingenuity will prevail (in most cases).

For instance the world watch institute has been saying we are going to die since the 1980s... 

In addition the book POPULATION BOMB... prediction also wrong

Have believe in people and that generally people want the best of the environment, but sometimes lack the means of doing it. People try to do what is best. Education is key not preaching, or dictating.

Saying the environment is important is also funny. Yes from a human point of view. Everyone should care for the environment. If we all die tomorrow because we live in our own filth... the planet will still live on without us.. as all planets have and will always. There were worst things such as metorites that have damaged the environment causing mass extinction, destroying dinosaurs. The earth is not static, rather very dynamic. The Earth doesn't care... humans do.

Playing devils advocate again. If animals have the right to live because they are found on the planet. Do plants not have rights? They also exist.. Are they "Slaves". AR people sometimes are so into their thing that they lack common sense.

Original Post by conbread101:

Doomsayers always say the world will collapse. The one thing that they do not remember is that human ingenuity will prevail (in most cases).

For instance the world watch institute has been saying we are going to die since the 1980s... 

In addition the book POPULATION BOMB... prediction also wrong

Have believe in people and that generally people want the best of the environment, but sometimes lack the means of doing it. People try to do what is best. Education is key not preaching, or dictating.

Saying the environment is important is also funny. Yes from a human point of view. Everyone should care for the environment. If we all die tomorrow because we live in our own filth... the planet will still live on without us.. as all planets have and will always. There were worst things such as metorites that have damaged the environment causing mass extinction, destroying dinosaurs. The earth is not static, rather very dynamic. The Earth doesn't care... humans do.

Playing devils advocate again. If animals have the right to live because they are found on the planet. Do plants not have rights? They also exist.. Are they "Slaves". AR people sometimes are so into their thing that they lack common sense.

Let me use your own logic here for a second. Over 90% of the crops grown on this planet are used to raise animals as food slaves.  Thus more plants are killed eating meat than actually eating vegetables, thus making your entire devils advocate argument a little silly.

As far as your doomsayer suggestion, I respectfully disagree. The science on these issues is pretty solid. We need to take corrective action now, not wait for some beacon of technology to save us.

Original Post by rachd:

there's more drama in the vegetarian threads than in the lounge!

*sits back with some popcorn to read the show* ;)

i can just feel the 'support' ooozing out.

true say!

Original Post by conbread101:

Everyone should care for the environment. If we all die tomorrow because we live in our own filth... the planet will still live on without us.. as all planets have and will always.

So not true. Planets die all the time. There was once a time when Mars looked vastly different... now it is a dying planet.

well i suppose its just an old cliche but nothing lasts forever. somethings just last a longer than others so i guess cornbread just meant that the planet will most likely survive a lot longer than us as it already has.

anyway back on to fish. the 'sustainable' fishing is always debatable as the guidelines are very vague & not really enforced. but if people are going to eat fish (& they will) i think its something worth working on. but just about every industry has their marketing ploy, no escape from that.

Why give up something if you like it?? I have been a veg for about 14 years now.  I wish i could eat seafood, primarily for all the great health benefits including the Omega 3 fatty acids, low calories, etc.... but i don't like the texture of most seafood, and i have a hang up with eating anything that was alive.... At times i wish i could get over this becuase it would making eating out easier and cooking at home with my fiancee easier.  I could make one meal for two people instead of two meals for two people..... But none the less i am a veg and can not bring myself to eat meat or seafood.....

If it dosen't bother you and you enjoy it why change???

"If it dosen't bother you and you enjoy it why change???"

Here are some reasons why one would change their views and give up something if you like it.

You could say the same about smoking. Why give it up if you like it? Well one would give it up for reasons 1. health- smoking =death, 2. costly, 3. supporting evil industry that tries to promote cigs to children

Same could be said about cutting out seafood...

1. environmental- seafood farming, fishing etc are very detrimental to fragile ocean/lake ecosystem

2. ethical- you believe animals should not be hurt

3. health- you mention omega 3- there are other more superior forms of omega 3-6-9 e.g. hemp protein that are also low in calories, and do not have contaminates such as mercury. Flax seeds, chia seeds etc all are good sources of omegas.

- this is just an aside. I (personally) do not understand how two people (1 veg and 1 carnivore) could co-exist in a relationship. The lifestyle is so different. The views in terms of environment, health, ethical ideas for such a lifestyle change are not consistent with a carnivore.

However, I can understand if you are just vegetarian because you cannot, or do not like meat. In addition, perhaps changed your lifestyle into the relationship.

Original Post by disease_of_ease:

Original Post by conbread101:

Everyone should care for the environment. If we all die tomorrow because we live in our own filth... the planet will still live on without us.. as all planets have and will always.

So not true. Planets die all the time. There was once a time when Mars looked vastly different... now it is a dying planet.

I think I was perhaps not clear. I was trying to convey that nothing last forever and the universe is dynamic. It Earth could explode, or We could pollute it and die. I think for our sake, it is best to lessen the latter.

Original Post by conbread101:

"If it dosen't bother you and you enjoy it why change???"

Here are some reasons why one would change their views and give up something if you like it.

You could say the same about smoking. Why give it up if you like it? Well one would give it up for reasons 1. health- smoking =death, 2. costly, 3. supporting evil industry that tries to promote cigs to children

Same could be said about cutting out seafood...

1. environmental- seafood farming, fishing etc are very detrimental to fragile ocean/lake ecosystem

2. ethical- you believe animals should not be hurt

3. health- you mention omega 3- there are other more superior forms of omega 3-6-9 e.g. hemp protein that are also low in calories, and do not have contaminates such as mercury. Flax seeds, chia seeds etc all are good sources of omegas.

- this is just an aside. I (personally) do not understand how two people (1 veg and 1 carnivore) could co-exist in a relationship. The lifestyle is so different. The views in terms of environment, health, ethical ideas for such a lifestyle change are not consistent with a carnivore.

However, I can understand if you are just vegetarian because you cannot, or do not like meat. In addition, perhaps changed your lifestyle into the relationship.

i know a few people who are in relationships & live together where one is veg, the other full meat eater. i do have it easy tho, as both my fiance & i went veg at the same time for years then started to eat sushi at the same time.

but relationships can exist like where one is a veg & the other not. from what ive seen the veg partner has influenced their so's, where as they probably would not have gotten that great of influence before. but i agree a relationship cant exist harmoniously if the other person is cutting down or constantly forcing their views on their carn-partner. which i think we could all take a lesson from, not just thru the veg/carn aspect.

i always kinda quiz them on how it works because im interested as it shows how to co-exist & even influence people's lifestyle & beliefs in a positive way that they actually listen to & follow. 

its actually how my fiance & i started to become veg at first. we were living with one & he slowly showed us how to eat without meat. but he lead us on the path by example & sharing his cooking/foods. he never once forced his ideals on us. i can truthfully say that by fiance would've run the opposite way if our flatmate had.

but we had to do it gradually, in fact it was rather easy as we only limited ourselves without ever really realizing. i know that doesn't sound a heroic as say someone who gave it up & agonized over not eating meat & had to put up with a lot.

Original Post by jblarghp:

"You might think of yourself as a glorified monkey... but I am not"

Before making a statement like this, you should actually educate yourself about evolution, because you're coming off as ignorant.

 

 

And I think you are the one coming off as ignorant.  I've researched the subject and evolution is nowhere near as clearcut as you seem to think it is.  I can provide you with resources if you're curious.  There is one internationally renowned physicist whose work (along with that of his colleagues) comes to mind...

Original Post by jblarghp:

"You might think of yourself as a glorified monkey... but I am not"

Before making a statement like this, you should actually educate yourself about evolution, because you're coming off as ignorant.

ANYWAYS-"xdarthveganx"-The overall point I was trying to get across was that I'm sure there are things about your lifestyle that are harmful to the environment (whether you are aware of them or not.) You came off as extremely preachy to me, so I was just trying to point out that you're not perfect either. I appologize if I mistook your ehm....errr...passion as "preachyness" though.

As far as the "I don't believe in God" statement, I'm not sure if that was directed towards me or the person who doesn't know anything about evolution. Regardless, I don't believe in anything that doesn't have sufficient proof to back it up either. I'm just not sure what that has to do with anything.

As someone who went to college with SoarAway and studied with her (and even took environmental ethics with her!), I can vouch for the fact that she has read about evolution and knows a great deal about it.  She and I differ in our views of the subject, but she is by no means ignorant and I find it disturbing that the first recourse of those who disagree is to demean the depth of their opponents' beliefs.  Will she ever convince me?  Extraordinarily doubtful.  She is convinced of many things I am convinced are untrue.  But the crux is, we're both convinced, based on evidence, whether from experiments or religious belief, or some combination of the two.  So I maintain, she is not ignorant, and to call her such while ignorant of her schooling or knowledge demeans all of pluralistic society.  Disagree with her, argue with her, but don't call her ignorant.  Please.

"But the crux is, we're both convinced, based on evidence, whether from experiments or religious belief, or some combination of the two."

Religious beliefs have evidence? Legitimate evidence? Really...REALLY?

Then my sincere apologies.

Original Post by jblarghp:

"But the crux is, we're both convinced, based on evidence, whether from experiments or religious belief, or some combination of the two."

Religious beliefs have evidence? Legitimate evidence? Really...REALLY?

Then my sincere apologies.

 I believe in God and I am proud of this. People live their lives differently, and I understand this but that's the standard I follow. As a result to that, I believe that we have dominance over animals. To use them as food is part of that dominance. I believe in humane treatment as much as possible, though and I don't believe in wasting meat or exhausting all sources of food. I also believe in health though... some of that meat, as far as I'm concerned is just not that healthy for you. Most of it, I just don't digest that well. I'm not questioning if it's "right" or "wrong" to eat meat, but rather... what's the difference in health benefits from eating fish to compared to being vegetarian (and vegan, too! I'm interested now...)

Personal choice factors into how and what we eat. But the God and religion bashing is unneccesary to this forum. Let's all make a deal... no more God & Religion bashing... then I don't have to bash you for not believing in either.

Original Post by calvinator:

I don't think I'm a true Vegatarian, at least not yet. I can do w/o most meat b/c it tends to upset my stomach and it really isn't good for my particular digestive system. Seafood however doesn't cause me pain, I love the taste and I eat a couple servings of fish a week. I completely failed at being a vegan, that lasted for about 2 weeks. But I've been vegatarian off and on for the last 3 years. My longest stint was a period of about 8 mos. The last time I tried, I was able to go about 3-4 months.  I would like to try to be vegetarian again, but I'm having the hardest time giving up seafood. I'm a pretty logical person (hopefully my wife would attest to this). I don't really have a logical reason for giving up seafood other than "Being a vegetarian is healthier".  But that doesn't seem to be enough. With meat, I could say "Meat upsets my stomach", and then it's easy to quit. But with seafood... no such problem. 

Any advice? Or maybe I should just stay eating seafood? And for those who like eating seafood, do you notice any health benefits? For those who don't like seafood, why not? THANKS!

 

Hi everyone,

It's your friendly neighborhood mod stepping in here...Hope all is well!

I think that we are getting a little off topic here. This is not a religious debate, but more of a question about seafood...so I think you can see that we've sort of moved into a whole different realm. While I'm all for a healthy debate, seafood is one thing...religion on the other hand, is a big topic of debate and one not really necessary on the Vegetarian forum of CC .

In saying that...carry on and have a great day.

Heather

Original Post by xdarthveganx:

Original Post by loudashope:

i don't think any of us eat seafood because we don't care about the environment, or because we're unaware of the damage it does. as i said, i try my very best to only eat humanely and sustainably caught seafood, and the amount of seafood i eat is really very little. that's what i am currently able to sustain, at this point in my life. even so, it was an incredibly tough decision to start eating fish again after being veg for almost 5 years. that's just me, i'm sure everyone else has their own reasons, and i'm sure they're all perfectly valid. just the same as plenty of vegetarians have valid reasons for not being vegan.

just because i'm not a vegan doesn't mean i'm evil, or misinformed. i could choose to be ignorant and eat a steak with every meal, but i don't. i do the best i can within my means, and i don't appreciate being made to feel like it's not good enough. this isn't an "all or nothing" area - we're all contributing, whether we go all the way or not.

 

This is the biggest damn list of boohoo feel bad for me excuses I have ever heard. 

Here you are talking about your "tough decision" to begin consuming fish, when these animals go through absolute hell, not to mention our oceans and fish populations are on the verge of collapse.

You do realize that "humane, sustainable fish" is purely a marketing ploy to ease your guilt, dont you?

Do you understand the meaning of "sustainability"? It means, by all practical purposes that you can continue doing something forever. As in, you do not take more from the land then it can provide for you. Seeing as we have a current world population of 6.7 billion, eating any sort of flesh including meat can not and will not be sustainable. As in, if every person lived and ate the way you did we would need multiple planets in order to make that lifestyle "sustainable" by definition.

You either make an ethical decision to stop exploiting animals and the earth, or you don't and have to face the consequences of being responsible for that decision. No free passes here.

alright. i tried to ignore you for a while because you sound like an arrogant jerk and i usually try to avoid conversations with such people. but you have no right to say that what loudashope is saying is boohoo. she is saying what she thinks and feels and it seems to me that she is genuine in her belief.

it's people like you that i have a problem with. i was vegan for 3 years. i went vegan when i got into punk/hardcore. i'm sure that is something that you can relate to. i watched all the factory farming videos and put the time into researching it and i committed to it for 3 years of my life.

now, i'm sure you've probably been vegan for much longer and are probably level 99 by now and have immunity to all omnivore attacks against you but you should really hear me out.

i tried really hard to eat a healthy vegan diet within my income limitations. after 3 years i was deficient in iron, b-12, selenium, protein and calcium. that's even after eating clean, balanced and taking a multi-vitamin and drinking protein shakes. so i started eating fish and eggs. it was weird at first but it was something i really looked into and i know has been great for my health. i feel alive again.

i'm not going to get into an arguement about why these foods are great and nutritionally packed. i'm not going to get into an arguement about if you believe we're omnivores or not. what i am going to say is that i did this for my health and people like you need to respect that.

why preach to someone who does not support factory farms and tries to catch their own fish?? because they are killing a fish? go yell at a bear, they eat way more fish. there are plenty of animals (lions, dogs, cats, exc...) that kill and eat other animals. is it only murder when we do it or should they be put on trial too?

i guess what i am really trying to say is that you should be vegan because that's clearly what you want. but you aren't helping your cause when you act elitest about it. no one is going to listen to you if you act like a snob. and that hurts the cause you say that you care so much about.

also you need to realize that not everyone wants to be a vegetarian or vegan but there are people (who choose to eat meat because they believe that is what is most natural for them as omnivores) who would be all about boycotting factory farmed meat or fish that has been caught by dragging nets across the ocean floor or that produces by-catch. maybe you could encourage them to do that instead of giving the whole meat is murder lecture.

there aren't any sort of passes of any type, free, payed for or earned. you don't get a pass by being vegan. we're all sharing the same planet and if it goes to crap no one is going to save you for good behavior. so i'd recommend trying to be more open minded so that you could maybe try some genuine communication and actually work towards achieving something positive.