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Posts by amwick


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The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 23 2014
04:25 (UTC)
3
Original Post by smashley23:

 

My point is that prosecutors don't provide "all of the evidence" for everyone whose not law enforcement. They provide only the evidence that is favorable to getting an indictment if they want an indictment which most of the time they do. When it comes to law enforcement, they often don't want an indictment and that doesn't mean that they couldn't get a conviction or that the case had no merit. 

?

The transcripts of the Eric Garner GJ proceedings have not been released, so based on MB case, the prosecutor was wrong for presenting all the facts?  I  just don't see it.  I think he was wrong for even bringing the case to the GJ, but that is just me. 

All this was more or less discussed in other earlier threads.

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 23 2014
00:13 (UTC)
7

How about looking at this from Anna's point of view.  She is the wife of a NYC LEO and this is her blog.

Once again, KG has pointed out that a LEO career is a choice, it is,  but this got to me:

People are indeed being targeted for who they are, but it isn’t the police doing the targeting.

My husband has been literally getting spat on as he walks into work – but he’ll still be standing there protecting your right to hold a sign saying “I Can’t Breathe.”

So by all means, march through NYC, scream in their faces, call them pigs, threaten their families, deface their tombstones, mock their pain, and ignore their sacrifices.

But acknowledge the truth of what you are doing.

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 22 2014
23:45 (UTC)
8
Original Post by smashley23:

People shouldn't be arrested unless it's necessary. If you can give them a summons and they're likely to appear, then why should they be dragged down to jail, unless they're actually a danger to someone.

That makes sense to me.. then again I really don't know how the determination is made whether to arrest someone.  Hopefully LEO are trained in that  somehow.  Maybe there is some kind of chain of command thing where they ask someone.  Maybe in other cases it is obvious. (like drunk driving etc)


A bit on false arrest.

eta

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 22 2014
23:41 (UTC)
9
Original Post by smashley23:

Original Post by amwick:

Original Post by smashley23:

Original Post by amwick:

Original Post by catwalker:

Since a grand jury almost never indicts the police for anything, I don't know why you keep giving a grand jury non-indictment so much weight.

They are supposed to represent the public.  If their decisions carry no weight than what would work better?  Would it be fair to just let someone like Al Sharpton decide? 

Grand juries do what the prosecutor wants them to do. Their decision means nothing if the prosecutor goes out of his way to make sure an indictment doesn't happen because he relies on the police to make his other cases. 

 

Really,  is that a fact?  I think it is just another version of the old hammie sammie myth.   When they  actually present exculpatory evidence/testimony, they are accused of the same thing.  Old story.   So, the are damned if they do and damned if they don't.   

 

 

  

Defendants get indicted 99% of the time. They do what prosecutors want them to do and most of the time, the prosecutor actually wants an indictment. Defendants have no right to have exculpatory evidence in front of the grand jury and it usually isn't presented for them because that's counterproductive to the prosecutor's intent. Normally, defendants don't get to testify that they were acting in self defense and normally prosecutors don't misquote the law to the jury in favor of the defendant.

It's one thing to argue that exculpatory evidence should be introduced in all indictments. It's another thing to treat officers facing a grand jury different from everyone else facing a grand jury.

Because prosecutors have an ethical obligation, not to bring cases before a Trial Jury that they know have no merit, eg one that they will surely lose.   They are not presenting exculpatory evidence per se, they are presenting all evidence/testimony, and allowing the Grand Jury to decide if a criminal charge is warranted.

And I totally agree it is unusual, but it is unusual for a prosecutor to be forced or compelled by public opinion and media outrage to do anything, rather than just make up their own minds.   MO

 eta

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 22 2014
23:33 (UTC)
11

More backlash... In NY   Slower response?: At least two units are to respond to EVERY call, no matter the condition or severity, no matter what type of job is pending, or what the opinion of the patrol supervisor happens to be....Doubling the number of cops responding to even minor 911 calls would effectively cut in half the NYPD’s patrol strength....The memo also pointed to potential slowdowns in arrest and ticketing activity: “IN ADDITION: Absolutely NO enforcement action in the form of arrests and or summonses is to be taken unless absolutely necessary and an individual MUST be placed under arrest,” 

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 22 2014
23:25 (UTC)
13
Original Post by smashley23:

Original Post by amwick:

Original Post by catwalker:

Since a grand jury almost never indicts the police for anything, I don't know why you keep giving a grand jury non-indictment so much weight.

They are supposed to represent the public.  If their decisions carry no weight than what would work better?  Would it be fair to just let someone like Al Sharpton decide? 

Grand juries do what the prosecutor wants them to do. Their decision means nothing if the prosecutor goes out of his way to make sure an indictment doesn't happen because he relies on the police to make his other cases. 

 

Really,  is that a fact?  I think it is just another version of the old hammie sammie myth.   When they  actually present exculpatory evidence/testimony, they are accused of the same thing.  Old story.   So, the are damned if they do and damned if they don't.   

 

 

  

The Lounge Adeste fidelis, Chati triumphantes Dec 22 2014
23:09 (UTC)
1

*turn off light, tip toes out*

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 22 2014
22:23 (UTC)
15
Original Post by santonacci:

Original Post by gotborked:

 I am not sure the increased public scrutiny of all of them lately is a good thing, as it is resulting in police departments intentionally having officers respond to distress calls more slowly in order to avoid this scrutiny and liability -- shifting the focus from preventing/apprehending suspects, to waiting until after the suspect is gone, and then cleaning up and aiding the victims after the damage is done.

Where is the evidence that police are responding slower to distress calls, and increased scrutiny is the cause?  I'm not being glib, here - are there stats/studies to back that up?

I agree it's a delicate line - unnecessary hyper vigilance vs. protection vs. individual rights.

But I don't think "Oh, well, that's been happening forever - human error, duh..." is going to cut it.  Law abiding citizens deserve better than that.

Wait a year or six months.  This may be happening as a backlash right now, then again it may be nonsense.    

The Lounge Adeste fidelis, Chati triumphantes Dec 22 2014
22:17 (UTC)
2

This is actually naptime, but I have my kindle under the blanket.    *yawns* 

The Lounge Adeste fidelis, Chati triumphantes Dec 22 2014
22:14 (UTC)
3
Original Post by runesplendor:

P just texted me, there's a stray kitten hanging around our back yard.  He's trying to catch it.

 

 

 

I suddenly suspect I'm not the one with hoarder tendencies.

The cat who came for Christmas?

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 22 2014
21:56 (UTC)
21
Original Post by catwalker:

Since a grand jury almost never indicts the police for anything, I don't know why you keep giving a grand jury non-indictment so much weight.

They are supposed to represent the public.  If their decisions carry no weight than what would work better?  Would it be fair to just let someone like Al Sharpton decide? 

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 22 2014
21:52 (UTC)
22
Original Post by gotborked:

Original Post by santonacci:

Original Post by gotborked:

Original Post by santonacci:

And that "breath easy don't break the law" thing is just plain ignorant. 

especially since, in this case, the underlying basis for the altercation was a violation of a pretty minor nanny-state type law. If we keep choosing to regulate and police more and more aspects of our lives, we should expect more and more police/citizen confrontations. This law professor's advice to never support a law you are not willing to kill to enforce helps put it in perspective.

I agree with your post, but I was thinking about the broader subject of people killed by LEO when they were not breaking any laws, nanny state or otherwise.

Mistakes happen, and with law enforcement, mistakes can be tragic and fatal. In the case you link to, it looks like the officers mistakenly believed the guy was breaking a law, and a pretty significant one. It is impossible to train away all human error.
Use of force incidents like this have been happening since forever. I am not sure the increased public scrutiny of all of them lately is a good thing, as it is resulting in police departments intentionally having officers respond to distress calls more slowly in order to avoid this scrutiny and liability -- shifting the focus from preventing/apprehending suspects, to waiting until after the suspect is gone, and then cleaning up and aiding the victims after the damage is done.

This is along the lines of the repercussions I was thinking about.  Crime may escalate because the police are targeted, and vilified, and demoralized.  

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 22 2014
21:41 (UTC)
26
Original Post by santonacci:

Original Post by gotborked:

Original Post by santonacci:

And that "breath easy don't break the law" thing is just plain ignorant. 

especially since, in this case, the underlying basis for the altercation was a violation of a pretty minor nanny-state type law. If we keep choosing to regulate and police more and more aspects of our lives, we should expect more and more police/citizen confrontations. This law professor's advice to never support a law you are not willing to kill to enforce helps put it in perspective.

I agree with your post, but I was thinking about the broader subject of people killed by LEO when they were not breaking any laws, nanny state or otherwise.

Someone called to complain about this guy carrying a gun.  I suppose ghe GJ was misled again.  Or not.

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 22 2014
21:29 (UTC)
28
Original Post by gotborked:

Original Post by santonacci:

And that "breath easy don't break the law" thing is just plain ignorant. 

especially since, in this case, the underlying basis for the altercation was a violation of a pretty minor nanny-state type law. If we keep choosing to regulate and police more and more aspects of our lives, we should expect more and more police/citizen confrontations. This law professor's advice to never support a law you are not willing to kill to enforce helps put it in perspective.

The LEO superviser was black.   How was this racial?  The underlying issue is that a person, having broken the law, trivial as it may appear, does not get to decide  whether or not they  get arrested.  They have ways to fight it legally, they are assumed innocent until a trial, but that can all happen later.

Eta

The Lounge Adeste fidelis, Chati triumphantes Dec 22 2014
19:27 (UTC)
46
Original Post by immabee:

Related only because of the word drone: What used to be a quad-copter with a GoPro strapped to it is now called a drone.

I really just didn't know how to describe it.  The guy that made it did a life size superman that was really cool.  Found the youtube video.  It looks like the motors are hidden by the packages underneath...

The Lounge Adeste fidelis, Chati triumphantes Dec 22 2014
19:21 (UTC)
51

Saw this on the news in the morning.. It really flys, it is a drone of some kind.

The Lounge Adeste fidelis, Chati triumphantes Dec 22 2014
19:18 (UTC)
54
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:

Hey chatters.

Just dropping in for a quick Hi:)

7 pages and without KG?

Fairly impressive.

*waits to be regaled with tales of the 1,000 post chats*

*waves from the quiet dark corner* 

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 22 2014
19:09 (UTC)
36

Rudi Giuliani is ticked off.  Anti-Police 'Propaganda' Led to NY Police 'Assassinations'

 

The Lounge Two NYC LEOs executed in their car: Wenjian Lu and Rafael Ramos Dec 22 2014
18:57 (UTC)
37

I am definitely not a sports fan, but I was very happy to see that the Yankees have foundation which provides for the educational expenses of New York City police  officers, firemen and Port Authority employees who died in the line of duty.  It is  [George] Steinbrenner's Yankee Silver Shield Foundation.  Officer Ramos had one son in college and one that wanted to be a doctor.  

The Lounge Adeste fidelis, Chati triumphantes Dec 22 2014
18:33 (UTC)
60

Afternoon figments..

I survived cookie catastrophes that involved blood gushing wounds, and icing that could have been used for mortar.

Nice quiet time from here on out. :)

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