KathyBeidh i persevere

Posts by kathygator


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The Lounge Ferguson grand jury has reached a decision *Update* No indictment, rampant looting Nov 26 2014
20:18 (UTC)
42
Original Post by lysistrata:

I just reviewed Wilson's initial statement and he did mention the cigarillos and the robbery call as the reason for the stop.  It's at page 14.

Page 1 states the interview is a follow-up to the one given at the station and continued at the hospital*. Is the one given at the station recorded in the Grand Jury evidence, or just the one you've linked?

eta: I haven't scoured the documents. And now, since it isn't going to trial I have no idea why I'm still effing typing...

The Lounge Ferguson grand jury has reached a decision *Update* No indictment, rampant looting Nov 26 2014
19:12 (UTC)
45
Original Post by lysistrata:

Original Post by kathygator:

Ok. Fair enough.

By Wilson's statement, he's rolling by, sees the two men, slows and suggests they get to a sidewalk. He hears them talking trash as he's already passed them, then reverses about 10 feet and starts to get out of the truck. And that's when the fight starts.

I'd submit that throwing it in reverse to re-engage is the root cause of the problem. He was fine with the exchange and still rolling, until he heard the back-talk.

Still looks like a dumb ass move to me.

I'm leaving out mention of the cigarillos, because apparently he did too, in his initial statement and didn't add it until the recorded interview. I'd guess it would be easy to verify if he was actually pursuing the robbery call, if a prosecutor was taking it to trial.

I understand the GJ's read of the incident, but I don't think I'd call Wilson blameless.

According to his grand jury testimony, he slowed, allowed them to continue walking towards the vehicle, and as they passed his driver's side window, asked them to walk in the sidewalk.  He did not reverse until after he saw the cigarillos and connected them with the robbery call.

If that is what actually happened, would you consider it a dumb ass move?

I read the transcript of the recorded interview. He quoted the trash talk, and said it was that and the cigarillos that made him reverse. They were walking past, at about his rear fender, and he was rolling forward when he heard it.

And I also stated that I'm leaving the cigarillos out of it, because apparently he didn't mention them in the initial interview before the recording was made. No idea if the GJ saw the initial report, but it's probably irrelevant. As I said, a prosecutor could probably iron out that time line.

But yes. If it could be proved that he was aware of and responding to the robbery call, I'd still consider it a half dumb ass move to reverse the car and try to order them to halt, rather than more appropriate measures: like calling it in, turning his vehicle to pursue, or parking and exiting at a distance. I have no doubt that during and after the fight he was in fear for his life.

I'm reading him as inexperienced and either a dumb ass, or badly trained. But if it is nicer to say 'badly trained' I'll go with that.

The Lounge Ferguson grand jury has reached a decision *Update* No indictment, rampant looting Nov 26 2014
18:41 (UTC)
57
Original Post by lysistrata:

I'm not going to shut down the thread.  I do think, as I said here, that questions about what did or didn't happen should start and end with the evidence.

Ok. Fair enough.

By Wilson's statement, he's rolling by, sees the two men, slows and suggests they get to a sidewalk. He hears them talking trash as he's already passed them, then reverses about 10 feet and starts to get out of the truck. And that's when the fight starts.

I'd submit that throwing it in reverse to re-engage is the root cause of the problem. He was fine with the exchange and still rolling, until he heard the back-talk.

Still looks like a dumb ass move to me.

I'm leaving out mention of the cigarillos, because apparently he did too, in his initial statement and didn't add it until the recorded interview. I'd guess it would be easy to verify if he was actually pursuing the robbery call, if a prosecutor was taking it to trial.

I understand the GJ's read of the incident, but I don't think I'd call Wilson blameless.

The Lounge Ferguson grand jury has reached a decision *Update* No indictment, rampant looting Nov 26 2014
16:45 (UTC)
89

Yes but how did he get in the fight in the first place? He yelled out his car window for them to 'get the f*** out of the road' and when they yelled back, he decided to body-block them with his SUV.

That's how it started, and that's on the officer.

And yes, you can ignore the intent of the post by focusing on the specifics, that's fine, that's your choice, but you will understand if I choose to disengage from the conversation with you.

The Lounge Ferguson grand jury has reached a decision *Update* No indictment, rampant looting Nov 26 2014
16:28 (UTC)
91
Original Post by amwick:

I admit I am jaded

Excellent. Now take that feeling, and try to multiply it times just the last 100 years of systemic, institutionalized discrimination. Try to imagine how you'd feel if that discrimination were your inheritance and was based solely on the color of your skin.

As a woman, sure, you've had to work probably a third again harder than a male counterpart, but try to imagine how much harder it would be if you were black.

That's what Ferguson is. It isn't a dumb ass hick cop who misread his own ability and authority with disastrous results, or even a dumb ass kid who chose that one day to fight back, it's much, much more. And it's in a country that is supposed to, by ideology, by the very nature of its inception, be better.

The Lounge Ferguson grand jury has reached a decision *Update* No indictment, rampant looting Nov 26 2014
16:00 (UTC)
98
Original Post by amwick:

Original Post by kathygator:

I don't know what 'N=1' means.

And yes I do kind of feel that Wick has been running victory laps. And it's been somewhat disappointing. Continuing to smear Brown, his family and the protestors, doesn't read like a simple statement that 'justice has prevailed', at least not to me.

*shrug*

Yes, what about the people smearing the Grand Jury. The Brown family are smearing themselves.  *shrug*

You added the shrug because you thought I was being a smart-ass, and you wanted to pay me in kind, but I honestly wasn't. I only add the shrug when I'm trying to convey that I'm not pissed, or trying to be malicious.

The Brown family have a dead child, one they believed was a good kid. Surely they can be forgiven for whatever you see as their failings in dealing with a situation that I, for one, could not imagine going through?

The Lounge Ferguson grand jury has reached a decision *Update* No indictment, rampant looting Nov 26 2014
15:52 (UTC)
103

@187: Ah. Well, I don't think anyone could argue there is insufficient empirical data to demonstrate the existence and basis of white privilege, could they?

The Lounge Ferguson grand jury has reached a decision *Update* No indictment, rampant looting Nov 26 2014
15:39 (UTC)
110

I don't know what 'N=1' means.

And yes I do kind of feel that Wick has been running victory laps. And it's been somewhat disappointing. Continuing to smear Brown, his family and the protestors, doesn't read like a simple statement that 'justice has prevailed', at least not to me.

*shrug*

The Lounge Ferguson grand jury has reached a decision *Update* No indictment, rampant looting Nov 26 2014
15:30 (UTC)
113

And yes, I can say with absolute certainty that if I were a black woman with the exact same skill-set, I would not be sitting at this desk.

It isn't a matter of achieving a level playing field, it's that we are not even in the same game.

The Lounge Ferguson grand jury has reached a decision *Update* No indictment, rampant looting Nov 26 2014
15:22 (UTC)
114

Wick, I get it. You think you 'won' something in this decision. You haven't. No one has. Not the Brown family, not Wilson, not law enforcement, not the people who are now not getting a paycheck because their jobs were set on fire.

Nothing about this does not suck.

I've refrained from posting for a few reasons, mostly because I'm not surprised by the decision, and because nothing in the evidence suggests I was wrong about my initial read: Wilson unnecessarily and incompetently escalated a situation that led to Brown getting shot.

Predictably, the GJ chose not to indict. We got strict adherence to the letter of the law, but justice was not served. And equally predictably, many conservatives of a certain ilk, seem to be taking the position that racism does not exist in this country, because of that decision.

The Lounge When white people riot Nov 21 2014
18:56 (UTC)
39

I do think there's an element of click bait, there, but I have to wonder what would have happened at Ferguson if a bunch of Bundy Ranch militia types had shown up, legally armed.

Which, if you believe their rap, they should have.

I think that's a more valid question in the comparison of LEO response, and crowd demographics. Or you could look at the way LEO handled various OWS movements across the country. It ranged from chuckles to pepper spray, regardless of the race of the protestors.

 

The Lounge She's Chat it Yeah, baby, she's chat it I'm your Venus, I'm your fire, Your desire Nov 21 2014
15:06 (UTC)
160

Do topical ointments help, Shep-honey?

The Lounge Situation at the border Nov 21 2014
14:59 (UTC)
9

I was mainly thinking of the tech that enables criminal back-ground checks, certifies employment, verifies school transcripts, etc, as it relates to the process of documenting the undocumented population. Our 11 million undocumented, presently in the US, is the biggest source of contention and debate it seems to me.

I do feel a mite queasy over the somewhat draconian super-powers of border patrol, but it's the same kind of queasy I feel over the draconian super-powers of law enforcement, in general.

The Lounge She's Chat it Yeah, baby, she's chat it I'm your Venus, I'm your fire, Your desire Nov 21 2014
14:34 (UTC)
172

((((Sh(((parasite)))ep))))

Mornin'.

The Lounge Situation at the border Nov 21 2014
14:30 (UTC)
12
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:

I was thinking on a more micro level. How do we (The US) as a country come to an immigration policy that prevents our country from acting as a sponge for criminals, terrorists and other bad actors yet still allows hard working, well intentioned, peace loving people access to our country.

We've got the tech to do it. The 'leaders' in Congress, IMO, lack the political will to piss off any portion of their constituents.

The Lounge Situation at the border Nov 21 2014
14:27 (UTC)
13

This administration has actually done more to control the borders than people realize and has shown pretty high deportation rates. POTUS' decision to band-aid the situation was correct, and in my opinion entirely legal, but I agree with him and you that it isn't a long-term solution.

 

The Lounge A flamboyant thread w/ razzle dazzle about the 2016 presidential primary elections Nov 20 2014
21:37 (UTC)
1
Original Post by nomoreexcuses:

Jim Webb announced he's formed an exploratory committee to consider a run for prez in 2016.

He looks like the kind of candidate I'd dig. Maybe some difficulty with women. He's in my 'maybe so' column.

The Lounge I have seen the future, and it is terrifying! Nov 20 2014
13:01 (UTC)
5

Haters. :P

Besides I will take an EATR OUT. I will feed it lots of biscuits, gravy and fried chicken, convince it to park itself in front of the TV, and watch it slowly succumb to the technical equivalent of heart disease.

The Lounge "how capitalism is making us sick" Nov 19 2014
18:42 (UTC)
2

I read early on that every public tweet that is sent is archived at the Library of Congress. I guess there was something kind of creepy about that, but now that I think about it, of course every tweet, and if we're to believe Snowden, every other bit of electronic communication is likely being archived somewhere.

The Lounge Everybody's down on their knees, Listen like thieves, But who needs that, When it's all in your Chat Nov 19 2014
17:17 (UTC)
72

yep. Good for you Shep.

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