Posts by kikt

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The Lounge robin williams dead of apparent suicide Aug 15 2014
21:48 (UTC)

Peeping back into this thread is a bit of a rollercoasterride: the usual Lys-Views sparring (do you guys ever stop?), some funny nonsense - and then it actually went back on topic. Wow.

Well, personally I still think suicide is tragic and sad but unless you have dependants not immoral. (I'm very big on the whole responsibility thing - just in case noone noticed...)

I don't really see how it fits or doesn't fit the categorical imperative. I simply don't think that concept is applicable when someone chooses to end his or her own life. Before committing suicide (which actually isn't as easy as we are talking about it here. Our bodies want to live. Making them stop involves actually a hell of a lot of violence and can backfire really badly - see the woman with the facetransplant from France) people should really try and exhaust all options: Mental care, meds - whatever is out there. 

The Lounge robin williams dead of apparent suicide Aug 14 2014
21:43 (UTC)
Original Post by theviewfromhere:


there's also a very strong element of that i-did-it-so-everybody-else-should attitude here. which, again, assumes the myth of the level playing field. not all depression is equal; not all people have equal resources. not everyone is infinitely resilient. and what's possible is not always what actually occurs.

I agree.

Yes, it's great to read 'fall seven times, get up eight' in your fitness studio (?) How fab, that we live in societies where we are constantly told that everything is possible if we just ant it hard enough (Mine thankfully just said 'I want to look good naked' and 'no shaving in the shower' :-)

But not everybody is that strong, has that kind of endurance - and I also really don't believe in this 'God/Karma/Whatnot gives us as many problems as we can handle' (Not mentioned in this thread but it does pop up now and then)

Some people are not as strong as other, some not as resilient and many get far more than they can take.

Antidepressants are great - I profit from them, too. But sometimes all the cranked -up serotonin levels in a brain won't stop someone from not wanting to live any more. 


I do wonder why it is such a taboo, why it is so very bad to end your life. Any pointers?

The Lounge robin williams dead of apparent suicide Aug 14 2014
20:11 (UTC)
Original Post by lysistrata:No, I wouldn't say that unhappiness is not allowed.  I would say that unhappiness is universal and unhappiness doesn't make a person unique or special or deserving of a death sentence.  I think the example you gave is really sad because I believe everybody is capable of finding happiness for themselves, instead of depending on an audience or children or customers or whatever.

Ah, and there's a difference between our views: I think some people are hardwired to be more or less unable to do that.


Original Post by nomoreexcuses: Choosing to die is different from most other ways of dying. Would you agree with that? Choosing to die is also choosing to permanently leave the people who love you. It hurts enough to lose someone. It hurts even more if they've chosen to leave you. It calls into question your relationship with the deceased in a way that just dying of some disease or in an accident doesn't. And unlike the times that a person might 'leave you' when they walk away because they are mad, you have no recourse. It's final. The final rejection. The final abandonment.

Hm. The final rejection.... See, I think that attitude is a bit...annoying from the point of someone who wants to die. If a friend of yours no longer wants to live and kills him/herself and you feel rejected because they left you behind I understand why you are mad, but I also think that's a selfish reaction ( I'm still only talking about grown-ups in my scenarios, not orphaned kids)

Yes, I am angry at my friend Bernd for stopping to take his heart-meds. I miss him and I need him - badly. But he was devastated at heart and I can understand that part him wanted to stop struggeling. His 'passive suicide' wasn't about me, it wasn't a rejection of me - it was for himself. An attempt to end the pain and the struggeling.

I think life is full of possibilites and potential and throwing that away for... - well, I believe we only got this one life and I sincerely hope there's no afterlife, so I guess it's 'nothingness' that comes after death. It's not a good trade for most, I think, but for some people it definitely is.


The Lounge robin williams dead of apparent suicide Aug 14 2014
18:51 (UTC)

:-) Yeah, my dog is also one of the strongest connections I have to the Here and Now.

The Lounge robin williams dead of apparent suicide Aug 14 2014
18:47 (UTC)
Original Post by lysistrata:There are lots of philosophical arguments for and against the morality of suicide.  It isn't an easy topic and it's very intertwined with your larger worldview and ethics, sometimes in ways that are difficult to reconcile.  On the one hand, I believe very strongly that individuals have the strongest claim to steer their own destinies.  That would seem to suggest that a person choosing suicide is exercising their moral authority over the circumstances of their death, which isn't for me to condemn.  On the other hand, a person committing suicide affects the destinies of others, as you and nomo have pointed out.  And it's really questionable whether somebody who commits suicide as a product of depression is truly exercising individual choice.

I've had two friends commit suicide, both young, both the kinds of people where everybody had no idea it was coming.  The overwhelming sense is that it was a terrible waste.  Where I really can't justify suicide is how it's not a fix, it's an escape.  My personal beliefs being what they are, I don't believe it's really even an escape; the act has karmic consequences.  Everybody suffers, and suicide is not an act that alleviates suffering in the world.  It is a self-centered act, in the sense that its objective is relief for the person committing suicide rather than the bigger karmic picture.  So I can't imagine ever responding to somebody committing suicide because of their depression as a morally neutral act.  Suicide is bad.  That it's bad doesn't mean I can't understand why people choose it or sympathize with their choice, but that doesn't mean it was an ok thing to do.

I agree with a lot you say but not all of it.

In my opinion(!) there are different kinds of suicide. I once knew a woman whose ex-bf killed himself in her flat to torture her because he left him. That is just an incredbly **** thing to do. Same with parents telling themselves their (little) kids are better off without them. Another extremely egotistical view on the world. And if they really believe it instead of just making en excuse for their convenient exit-plan then there is probably an element of delusion in their minds alongside a regular depression.

This 'The world would be a better place without me' is another one of those reasons that make me rather angry. The world at large is probably not gonna give a damn wether you exist or not. But people who depend on you (like kids) do. If you are really still needed you can't just leave (imo)

Another kind of suicide that I find really upsetting is that of teenagers and really young people. Yes, life occasionally sucks big time, but there really is rather more to the world than college/career/boyfriend/whatnot. I'm mentioning this because parallel to this thread there is one on the Lounge of a girl planning to kill herself if she fails college day. What kind of society/family puts that much pressure on kids?  

But after a couple of decades simply not wanting to live any more because life doesn't feel worth living is a reason I can understand well. Why must I go on and on and on and on and on with this life when I'd really much rather not?

In my personal case the main reason for me still sticking around is my mom. She made it rather clear at some point that if I take my life she won't be around for long either and, frankly, I resent her somewhat for tying me down like this. Now, my suicidal episodes have passed but I can really sympathize with William on this one: Kids are grown up, career is gone, so is his audience - why the hell must he drag his body through another 20 years? Just so everybody else is happy? Or because it's not allowed to 'give up'? Is this really just about morality or also about an annoying culture of 'Everything must be possible! Unhappiness is not allowed. Take meds if you must but keep on trucking!'


The Lounge robin williams dead of apparent suicide Aug 14 2014
15:56 (UTC)

Ah, the thread has turned into bickering between Kevin and Views, completely independently from the original topic. What a surprise.

Oh well, the next one will turn into a version of Chat again, I guess. 


I know it's lame to return to the original topic, but I read the linked Huffington post article and I have to say I don't think it's very good. It's yet another one of these texts where suicide looks like the result of some kind of sudden anguish or crisis. While these certainly exist I think that the case of Robin Williams seems to be a different one.


ok, just deleted a too personal paragraph and don't have time to rewrite it properly.

My point is: I think there are different kinds of melancholia (today labeled as depression) Some are short and viscious, some are ongoing. Wether they do eventually end in suicide or not is up to the person suffering. I agree with PG in that it should be up to an individual to choose if they want to leave or not. (Unless they have underage children. Then I think they need to hang on - as Williams did - at least till their lives are no longer blighted by the thought that a parent didn't love them enough to stay)

The Lounge robin williams dead of apparent suicide Aug 14 2014
13:40 (UTC)
Original Post by hatamoto:

Seems like he had some money woes, specifically ex-wife related money woes, that appear to have played a role.

Putting the blame on mame, Hata? Really?

It's the mail online - not exactly a reliable source of information.

But I can see how the axing of a tv series can be something like a final blow. Not because of the money but more because of the message that someone is no longer wanted or needed.

The Lounge robin williams dead of apparent suicide Aug 14 2014
13:33 (UTC)
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:

Original Post by theviewfromhere:

Original Post by dbackerfan:

 Will this help stir the debate on getting mental health care to the people?

i don't see why it would; he certainly had access to plenty of treatment options and resources. if anything, i hope it stirs the conversation on the right to die. it's time to acknowledge that sometimes, for some people, hope truly is absent and suicide is the best option.

I can understand supporting one's right to die when death is imminent. When health deteriorates to a point on continuous pain and suicide might be a humane response to that.

I find it much much harder to understand that "truly absent hope" rises to the threshold of justifiable suicide. Maybe I'm naive but I think hope is a renewable resource.

Have you seen cases where you'd be ok with suicide for an otherwise healthy person?

I'm late  to the the news (and the thread) but Ill try and answer this: yes, I have.

Being familiar with depression I know what it can feel like and I what makes me saddest about Robin Williams suicide is the agony he must have been in. I loved his comedy acts and (many) of his films very much.

The main problem with suicide is how badly you damage the lives of those left behind. But the way some people are 'built' there just is no escaping from melancholia and the seemingly never-ending ache that just makes them want to stop being alive.

My dad's first position as a pastor was in a remote area on the cost where suicide was ...well, almost common. And as sad as the remaining family and friends were it was considered almost like a kind of inevitable disease. Some people just carry their own self-destruct mechanism inside themselves and at some point you just have to let them go.


Fitness first time bikini competition advice Aug 06 2014
20:51 (UTC)

Get a good and even tan (fake or otherwise), a really good looking bikini that suits your bodyshape rather than current fashion and drink a small(!) glass of fizz before you compete.

And try to have fun. I'm not sure why beauty contests aren'T yet a thing of the past but if there is no money in it at least you should enjoy yourself while doing it.

The Lounge Belly buttons Aug 05 2014
15:55 (UTC)
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:

Original Post by nomoreexcuses:

Original Post by purespark:

Also - the OP of this thread is no longer with us, it seems.  Did she bail because we stupidly assumed she wanted her belly button to look attractive for men?

I took it more as an indictment of our overall grotesqueness.

or of WINNING!

Naw. 'Winning' in this case would feel like most Germans felt when the German team played against BRazil - fun at first but after while just kind of embarrassing.

The Lounge Belly buttons Aug 05 2014
15:53 (UTC)
Original Post by purespark:

Also - the OP of this thread is no longer with us, it seems.  Did she bail because we stupidly assumed she wanted her belly button to look attractive for men?

Tbh, I don't think anybody really assumed that. I just listed it as a potential reply to which the OP replied rather emotionally.

I guess most of us just assumed that the OP has body issues. And if she is indeed Vanillastrawberryshakeorsomething we would be right.

The Lounge Belly buttons Aug 05 2014
13:16 (UTC)
Original Post by m3gman:

I can assure you not one "live girl" I ever did a body shot with was anything less than beautiful.  I would not share a moment like that with anyone other than high class/high quality WOMAN.  For your comment to even mention a dead girl or pig is your way of either insulting women or me.  As with all forums, there is always "you" people out there.  Hence why you have a picture of a dog.  Enough said.

Dude, I was just teasing you because the way you wrote about sticking a lime in a girls teeth sound rather odd. 

I never had a pic of me on here for the same reason I don't have this account linked with Facebook. It's more about my privacy than my hideousness.

Although you are right, that pic of my dog is wayyyy out of date. i should put up a new one. ;-)

The Lounge Belly buttons Aug 05 2014
10:14 (UTC)
Original Post by m3gman:

I actually think belly buttons can be very sexy.  I have even done "body shots" out of a few girlfriends belly buttons, spaced out over the years of course!  Rub some lime on the breast, then place lime in girls mouth rind to teeth (so you can bite the lime), spinkle breast with salt, pour the tequila in the belly button and "cheers" consider it foreplay!  Lick, suck, bite!  Yummy!

Is the girl in you example alive? Because the description kind makes it sound as if you're talking about a prepped sucking-pig just with lime instead of apple.

The Lounge Belly buttons Aug 05 2014
08:13 (UTC)
Original Post by watergirl:

Original Post by lysistrata:

Original Post by watergirl:

Original Post by lysistrata:

Word of the day:  Alvinophilia. 

A beginner's guide. I can't get past Extract 1.


I made it through Extract 3, and couldn't be happier that I did.  :)

Everyone has their own niche of what turns them on.


The more you know...

Personally, I'm most impressed by the bell-drop.

The Lounge Belly buttons Aug 04 2014
21:44 (UTC)
Original Post by shyprincess:

I don't know why everyone thinks I want my belly button to look different for a guy or something? That's incredibly stupid and I could care less about that! I was just saying that my belly button looks weird, and if anyone else had a weird belly button. That's it.

I see you picked Response Nr 2



But since Jarred set such a good example: I honestly can't tell you if my belly button looks weird or not. I got quite a bit of flab on my belly so it's more of a line. I guess that makes it...'normal'? But I have never paid much attention to belly buttons before or judged their appearance, so I have no real frame of reference

The Lounge What? My water troubles aren't important enough to make the weekends in here?! Aug 04 2014
20:50 (UTC)
Original Post by lysistrata:

Original Post by kikt:

How the hell does that happen?? Don't they clean and filter the water before they introduce it into the system?


Usually if it is introduced out of a pipe, yes.  If it is introduced because rain hits the ground and runs downhill carrying whatever happens to be on the ground surface with it until it hits the lowest point where water accumulates, usually no.  The Clean Water Act very strongly regulates pipes (point sources) and very weakly regulates anything else (non-point sources), even though by now, the pipes are a very small percentage of the total pollution entering the stream.  There are a lot of reasons for that but a big one is, like WG pointed out, now you're getting into managing land use practices on an extremely large scale.


So any water running anywhere will end up being drinking water eventually without being filtered properly? Including rain that hits, lets say, animal corpses, carwrecks, feces of all kinds and shape?

What a lovely thought. *gags*


The Lounge Belly buttons Aug 04 2014
20:45 (UTC)
Original Post by shyprincess:

Ya'll are really gross omg

Which makes me wonder what reactions you did expect when starting a thread about your belly button.

Was it something like:

'OMG! Me, too, so gross innit? I gonna get surgery for it on Monday. Doc has promised me to make it look exactly like Justin Bieber's'


'Honey, we are all human. Learn to love your flaws. I'm sure you are a wonderful person in every other aspect. eventually you'll find a boy ho loves you for who you really are'

or maybe

'Well, if you think belly buttons look weird...I mean, have ever really LOOKED at the toenail of your little toe? Or the back of your knees. Some people got really nasty looking blue veins there. Gross. Also, there's a girl in school with hair growing around her nipples. Got a peek of them in the changing rooms although she tries to hide it. So gross!'


You can take your pick.

Meanwhile, the rest of us are going to discuss bely button lint cakes.

The Lounge CHAT's in My Heart, CHAT's in My Soul / CHAT'll Be My Breath, Should I Grow Old... Aug 04 2014
19:07 (UTC)
Original Post by pavlovcat:

I live in a sh***y neighborhood, kinky.  Now that I have a child, it makes life rather difficult to not be able to play at the local park or feel safe taking a walk even. 

I didn'T know that. Sounds sucky.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the sale!!!

The Lounge CHAT's in My Heart, CHAT's in My Soul / CHAT'll Be My Breath, Should I Grow Old... Aug 04 2014
18:47 (UTC)
Original Post by cajunrider:

Original Post by kikt:

Damn, I should have stayed around for Chat job juju. I'm not super keen on a house right now, but some more paid work would be truly fab.

Pavvy, I missed it (obviously) but why are you trying to sell your house? Will you be moving?

Pavvy just wants out of the war zone.

War zone??

The Lounge CHAT's in My Heart, CHAT's in My Soul / CHAT'll Be My Breath, Should I Grow Old... Aug 04 2014
18:41 (UTC)

Damn, I should have stayed around for Chat job juju. I'm not super keen on a house right now, but some more paid work would be truly fab.

Pavvy, I missed it (obviously) but why are you trying to sell your house? Will you be moving?