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Posts by ninettenick

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Forum	Topic	Date	Replies
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 16 2010 02:46 (UTC)	19
Original Post by moonikins: Nothing is ever settled in The Lounge. Are you sure they are Amish or Pennsylvania Dutch?! ;)
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 16 2010 02:44 (UTC)	20
Original Post by muttlover: Original Post by ninettenick: Original Post by amethystgirl: Original Post by ninettenick: Much of the meat has been grain fed rather than fed the bodies of other animals. Check it out. This is not some strange idea. The word you want to look up is "kosher." Grain fed is not healthy... at least not compared to grass fed. And I'll bet that every one of the people you are writing that reply to know what "kosher" is. If we are going to chose our meat based on what religious group raised and slaughtered it, I'd suggest the Amish. Actually...my answer was based on someone being confused and thinking I was being prejudice for mentioning Jewish or Muslims. Anyhow, I don't think any cow is 100% grass fed. I think they do get some grain at some point. I think that the grass fed means they get to roam around too. But, I may be wrong. To be honest....I don't really keep up with it anymore except to only buy when I buy it if it says, "vegetarian fed." This goes for eggs and milk too. I do know that the Iranian market here has very clean.....everything! They are pretty strict on the cleanliness of all their foods. I think that most "regular" farmers have a sense of how to kill an animal correctly...if there is a correct way. I am sure that the Amish would be just fine too...although I doubt there are as many around and about the country. Anyhow, my goal is simply to help people think a bit about what they are eating and try to find the best sources they can. I hope you weren't referring to me? I never said you were prejudice, I just asked why Jewish and Muslim people had better meat than other areas of the world. And yes, cows have been fed cows before. But just because it happened and PETA made a video about it doesn't mean that every steak I buy from Publix is a cow digested inside a cow riddled with cow disease. I dunno! These chains get long. I would say that most factory farmed cow meat, which is most of what you get at your local market, is other animal protein. They also feed them a lot of antibiotics and chemicals to make them grow fast and this is probably MORE of a concern. We ingest hormones in milk and meat and cheese etc. If you add what women often take etc., it is a LOT.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 16 2010 02:39 (UTC)	22
Original Post by amethystgirl: Original Post by ninettenick: Original Post by amethystgirl: Original Post by ninettenick: Much of the meat has been grain fed rather than fed the bodies of other animals. Check it out. This is not some strange idea. The word you want to look up is "kosher." Grain fed is not healthy... at least not compared to grass fed. And I'll bet that every one of the people you are writing that reply to know what "kosher" is. If we are going to chose our meat based on what religious group raised and slaughtered it, I'd suggest the Amish. Actually...my answer was based on someone being confused and thinking I was being prejudice for mentioning Jewish or Muslims. Anyhow, I don't think any cow is 100% grass fed. I think they do get some grain at some point. I think that the grass fed means they get to roam around too. But, I may be wrong. To be honest....I don't really keep up with it anymore except to only buy when I buy it if it says, "vegetarian fed." This goes for eggs and milk too. I do know that the Iranian market here has very clean.....everything! They are pretty strict on the cleanliness of all their foods. I think that most "regular" farmers have a sense of how to kill an animal correctly...if there is a correct way. I am sure that the Amish would be just fine too...although I doubt there are as many around and about the country. Anyhow, my goal is simply to help people think a bit about what they are eating and try to find the best sources they can. You aren't being prejudiced for mentioning Jews and Muslims. You are making generalizations that people (and some of the responders I happen to know are Jewish) find a little... well... general. There are cows that are entirely grass fed. Labeling doesn't always tell the full story, which is why farmers markets are a great way to purchase meat - you can talk to the people who were responsible for your food. Keep in mind that if a farmer claims that their chickens are vegetarian fed and free range, those chickens were munching on critters. Pennsylvania has a lot of Amish, and they'll travel to nearby states to sell their products. I think Ohio might too, but that might just be spillover from PA. Okay - so let's say most "kosher" and most "halal" is a superior meat. But I get urpy mentioning meat, so I really don't need to educate meat eaters. I was making a point that if people should check what they are eating and if they eat meat....eat the best the can find. If you have a local farmer....go have a chat even if he is not Jewish or Muslim. That was EXACTLY my point too....talk to who produces your meat and know what you are eating. If you live in downtown New York and have NO other option....then find a Jew or a Muslim before you go to Safeway/Kroger. They might not be eating Kosher or Halal meat...but you could ask too. You can also ask what they mean by Kosher because this can vary...but if they say Halal then it is Halal. Okay...I hope I settled this point.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 16 2010 02:06 (UTC)	27
Original Post by dnrothx: Original Post by ninettenick: I find it ridiculous when we mention the habits of another culture we are prejudiced? Sounds silly to me! I am neither Jewish nor Muslim, but they know a few things about food. They have also been at this for a few thousand years before us. As it has been pointed out in so many creative ways in this thread now, your generalizations are what are really silly here. Thanks! I disagree. My brother in law is Jewish and I am surrounded by many Muslims and live with someone who has spent most of their life in Mediterranean regions....I haven't just fallen off the turnip truck. My first choice where I live is not traditional American food. So, whatever. You are free to eat as you wish from whomever you wish.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 16 2010 02:03 (UTC)	28
Original Post by amethystgirl: Original Post by ninettenick: Much of the meat has been grain fed rather than fed the bodies of other animals. Check it out. This is not some strange idea. The word you want to look up is "kosher." Grain fed is not healthy... at least not compared to grass fed. And I'll bet that every one of the people you are writing that reply to know what "kosher" is. If we are going to chose our meat based on what religious group raised and slaughtered it, I'd suggest the Amish. Actually...my answer was based on someone being confused and thinking I was being prejudice for mentioning Jewish or Muslims. Anyhow, I don't think any cow is 100% grass fed. I think they do get some grain at some point. I think that the grass fed means they get to roam around too. But, I may be wrong. To be honest....I don't really keep up with it anymore except to only buy when I buy it if it says, "vegetarian fed." This goes for eggs and milk too. I do know that the Iranian market here has very clean.....everything! They are pretty strict on the cleanliness of all their foods. I think that most "regular" farmers have a sense of how to kill an animal correctly...if there is a correct way. I am sure that the Amish would be just fine too...although I doubt there are as many around and about the country. Anyhow, my goal is simply to help people think a bit about what they are eating and try to find the best sources they can.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 16 2010 00:11 (UTC)	31
Original Post by fenrik_reinsdyr: Original Post by kikt: Original Post by ninettenick: Original Post by kikt: Original Post by ninettenick: As to meat. Find yourself some local Jews or Muslims. They eat clean meat and I am positive they can tell you where to find a good quality meat. goes to find herself a Jew or a Muslim to then ask about clean meat almost faints from the smell of the uncooled meat in the local Turkish butcher goes home before she gets arrested for voicing ridiculous prejudices in a mulitcultural neighbourhood finds this Look up two terms "Kosher meat" and "Halal meat." You might want to do some research on the preparation and way that they treat the meat. If you mention "clean" meat in either neighborhood you won't be arrested....you might just look smart. Incidentally, the best food in the world is prepared by the Turkish. Most Turkish meat sold here is Döner Kebab. The greasy rotating hunk of minced meat that contains ?!?. How one type of kebab is prepared is different from perhaps the more traditional form of how it is prepared. For example- Panda Express is sold as Chinese food, but if you go to china, they don't eat that sort of stuff. Or going to Taco Bell- that's not how traditional mexican food is made. Typically, the comercialised cousin is far less healthy than the traditionally-made dishes. Yes, of course. I live in California and we have the real deal here. I live around a lot of authentic cuisine. Much of French cuisine is based on Turkish cuisine. I didn't think there was a difference, but a good Turkish restaurant....OUT of this world! Oh...that greasy hunk of meat has a lot of lamb in it and that tends to be greasy....but you can also get various qualities of all foods. Chinese in North Dakota is a different animal than Chinese in San Francisco. ALSO..check out who the cook is. There is a Mediterranean restaurant in town that is horrible. I am not sure if anyone from the Mediterranean works there at all.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 15 2010 23:20 (UTC)	35
Original Post by hksquared: Original Post by ninettenick: You know what? I am GLAD you asked! Lol! I felt the same way as you. Then I started finding out about local grower and there is a LOT out there. I have a tiny place too, but this year I am starting mint, basil, thyme and tomatoes. I also intend to move to a place where I CAN grow more of my own. Trust me...my life has changed in some interesting ways! But I can promise that I was totally overwhelmed at the concept myself. The trick is not to get too worked up, learn what you can and start where you are at! It is a process to eat more healthy. As to meat. Find yourself some local Jews or Muslims. They eat clean meat and I am positive they can tell you where to find a good quality meat. Start here and plug in your zipcode: http://www.localharvest.org/ Here is a link to a lady who started a project. There might be someone in your area that has a community garden: http://hyperlocavore.wordpress.com/ You know, I sat here and I've been trying to understand your point here. Where you're connecting Jews and Muslims to Eating Cleanly or Good Quality Meat. I assume it's something to do with Kosher foods (since what else do Jews eat, right? :p) but it's just.. not clear. As someone who's had my fill of Kosher Hot Dogs, the idea that Jews necessarily eat better meat than "everybody else" is somewhat laughable. Do you care to explain yourself here, or do you just want to suggest that Jews and Muslims have magic "I can find good meat" powers? I added my comments...but they pop up a little further down the line. As I said...you might want to look up "Kosher meat" and "Halal meat". Hot dogs are garbage in any culture...but just the other day I had this discussion in front of the hot dog section. You'll read on the package (often) that the meat has been "grain fed" without the use of antibiotics or chemicals. In regular meat they are often fed chemicals, antibiotics and high protein diet of other ground up (often diseased) dead animals. Look it up. It isn't rocket science. Many people just don't look it up.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 15 2010 23:16 (UTC)	37
Original Post by kikt: Original Post by ninettenick: As to meat. Find yourself some local Jews or Muslims. They eat clean meat and I am positive they can tell you where to find a good quality meat. goes to find herself a Jew or a Muslim to then ask about clean meat almost faints from the smell of the uncooled meat in the local Turkish butcher goes home before she gets arrested for voicing ridiculous prejudices in a mulitcultural neighbourhood finds this Look up two terms "Kosher meat" and "Halal meat." You might want to do some research on the preparation and way that they treat the meat. If you mention "clean" meat in either neighborhood you won't be arrested....you might just look smart. Incidentally, the best food in the world is prepared by the Turkish.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 15 2010 23:13 (UTC)	38
I find it ridiculous when we mention the habits of another culture we are prejudiced? Sounds silly to me! Concerning Jewish: Kosher does not always mean healthy. Sometimes kosher just means it has been prayed over. However, most of the time it means that the meat has been prepared without chemicals, pesticides etc., and the animal has been killed in a more humane way and properly bled. Much of the meat has been grain fed rather than fed the bodies of other animals. Check it out. This is not some strange idea. The word you want to look up is "kosher." Muslims take the above to a whole new level. They do all the above and more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal I am neither Jewish nor Muslim, but they know a few things about food. They have also been at this for a few thousand years before us. My partner is a meat eater. We shop at a local (Muslim) Iranian market. Their meat is a zillions times better quality than you are going to find at a local grocery store. Most people who know a thing or two about hunting wild deer etc., know that there are ways to prepare and not prepare the meat. It makes a difference. It is smart to be educated about what you put in your mouth.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 15 2010 02:52 (UTC)	59
Original Post by muttlover: Original Post by ninettenick: Original Post by dnrothx: Interestingly, a friend of mine gave me three free burgers that he had prepared over the weekend. Meat is good. I was going to make a smart aleck remark about urine in hamburger...Lol! But...I really encourage meat eaters to eat the absolute best quality if they are going to eat meat. Know what you are eating. If you eat meat...where is it coming from and how does it get to you? I highly suggest trying to not eat meat from cows that have been fed other cows or dead animal protein. Try to find grass fed meat. It is more expensive, but much more satisfying. Various cultures have believed that when we eat meat we ingest the spirit of the animal. Many people know that it is best not to eat an animal that has suffered or been abused. We Americans tend to be human garbage cans and the more we are aware of what we eat....the better. This is actually where I began. I started becoming aware of what exactly I was eating. To do that, I would have to grow all of my own food. I don't know about anyone else here, but my apartment balcony is a bit small... :/ You know what? I am GLAD you asked! Lol! I felt the same way as you. Then I started finding out about local grower and there is a LOT out there. I have a tiny place too, but this year I am starting mint, basil, thyme and tomatoes. I also intend to move to a place where I CAN grow more of my own. Trust me...my life has changed in some interesting ways! But I can promise that I was totally overwhelmed at the concept myself. The trick is not to get too worked up, learn what you can and start where you are at! It is a process to eat more healthy. As to meat. Find yourself some local Jews or Muslims. They eat clean meat and I am positive they can tell you where to find a good quality meat. Start here and plug in your zipcode: http://www.localharvest.org/ Here is a link to a lady who started a project. There might be someone in your area that has a community garden: http://hyperlocavore.wordpress.com/
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 14 2010 19:57 (UTC)	69
Original Post by floggingsully: Original Post by gotborked: Also, I once had a vegan girlfriend, and she was no fun on dates. I once had a vegan girlfriend who said vegans were a bunch of pretentious blowhards. Humans tend to be consumed with ego and this is the problem.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 14 2010 19:53 (UTC)	70
Original Post by dnrothx: Interestingly, a friend of mine gave me three free burgers that he had prepared over the weekend. Meat is good. I was going to make a smart aleck remark about urine in hamburger...Lol! But...I really encourage meat eaters to eat the absolute best quality if they are going to eat meat. Know what you are eating. If you eat meat...where is it coming from and how does it get to you? I highly suggest trying to not eat meat from cows that have been fed other cows or dead animal protein. Try to find grass fed meat. It is more expensive, but much more satisfying. Various cultures have believed that when we eat meat we ingest the spirit of the animal. Many people know that it is best not to eat an animal that has suffered or been abused. We Americans tend to be human garbage cans and the more we are aware of what we eat....the better. This is actually where I began. I started becoming aware of what exactly I was eating.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 14 2010 19:47 (UTC)	71
Original Post by gotborked: I think people generally reject getting preached at by their moral superior, whatever the scenario. Also, I once had a vegan girlfriend, and she was no fun on dates. "True" vegans actually have begun to follow a philosophy of not dating or being intimately involved with meat eaters as this is contaminating. So, the ex girlfriend may not have been particularly authentic in her practice. ;) Personally, and I know this sounds a little weird to meat eaters, but if I am single again I won't consider dating a meat eater because to look at it and smell it cooking really makes me ill. The longer I am away from meat the more it is gross. I just cleaned my fridge from the last steak episode and it made me very urpy! Bloody is sort of yucky.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 14 2010 18:29 (UTC)	88
Original Post by sukibahsoun: Original Post by dnrothx: For the record, everyone should be forced to eat meat, whether from a cow or pig or ostrich. Screw that. Give me gerbil meat or give me death! I think there is something inherently WRONG with people who like eating lovable furry creatures! Just saying! ;)
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 14 2010 18:25 (UTC)	89
Original Post by nomoreexcuses: I did upset people once when I pointed out that you can make glue from flour and water. (I have a problem with gluten; I can only tolerate very small amounts of wheat. It's gotten more severe in the 4 years I've been on this site. But I don't think that it turns into glue in my gut... I just found it sort of interesting that I can't eat glue and other people like eating glue.) This is another good point we often miss. Everyone's digestive tract is different. What one person can eat....others might not. It doesn't make it a sin. Some people can't eat dark green veges....does that mean everyone shouldn't. Part of the problem is that when we make a choice, potentially a tough choice, we often expect others to do that same along with us.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 14 2010 18:23 (UTC)	91
Original Post by amethystgirl: Original Post by dnrothx: Original Post by amethystgirl: Original Post by dnrothx: Original Post by kikt: Original Post by ninettenick: The American school system (public school) is a social institution based on socialism. This is a fact not a personal opinion. A fact from where? The New York Post? May Mackenzie: Charlie, hand me the paper. Charlie Mackenzie: Mom, I find it interesting that you call The Weekly World News "the paper." A paper contains facts. May Mackenzie: This newspaper contains facts. Look at this. "Pregnant man gives birth." That's a fact! Head! Pants! Now! My name is John Johnson, but everyone here calls me Vicky. I love Vicky. Oh yeah, he's the best. If a woman has the need to switch to being a man and remove her body parts (and vice versa)....I think I'll leave it alone and let her work that one out with her own loved ones. The newspapers and magazines and publishing in general is going under...they have to get our attention somehow.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 14 2010 18:20 (UTC)	92
Original Post by dnrothx: For the record, everyone should be forced to eat meat, whether from a cow or pig or ostrich. A comedian! ;)
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 14 2010 16:50 (UTC)	105
Original Post by nomoreexcuses: Original Post by ninettenick: Original Post by nomoreexcuses: Socialism: (1) any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods By this definition, in the u.s. we have government ownership of schools and we have government administration of the distribution of educational services But maybe by some other definition our educational system would not meet the criteria. And it is well to point out that just because (many of) our schools are owned and administered collectively (we all get to vote for school board, and in NC, we vote for Lt. gov & treasurer who serve on the state board of education), doesn't mean that public education is necessarily inferior. I truly believe you get out of it what you put into it. So.. you can't be a slackass and come out with a sterling education. Neither can you do this in a private school or in a home school. I won't get into this too much because I think it is off topic. You can ask any public school this question if you wish. When a child is enrolled in public schools they become wards of the State to be educated as the States feels they should be. The teachers become their "custodians" which means that they are in the "custody" of the State. What would you call this? It doesn't mean it is bad...it just means that children are educated to react and believe in socially acceptable ways. The first question that public schoolers ask a private schooled parent is...."how are they being socialized?" This is in fact, more important than being educated in America. But...this really has absolutely nothing to do to soy beans and I no longer have children at home. For me it is irrelevant, so sort of pointless to talk about. I don't know about the state where you live, but in NC and VA, schools act in loco parentis, (in the place of the parents) meaning that they assume legal responsibility for ensuring the safety of the children in their care, and make decisions about what is in their best interests regarding the curriculum (how else can a school operate, but by having a curriculum?) but are not able to violate a child's civil rights, unlike private schools which have considerably more latitude in making up arbitrary rules and enforcing them. in loco parentis is not legally the same - not even close - as ward of the state I totally agree. Saying what I said about public schools has nothing to do with private. I would send my child to a public before a private. However, if you remove your child from school you'll find out what your rights are pretty quick. Anyhow, my point in mentioning this at all, was that we are socialize to act in certain socially expected ways and taught to exclude those who do not. These social norms and how we treat others is very strong, because from very young ages we have been educated in a social system that taught us what we should and should not accept as correct in our society. This was not an accident. Right now in our society it socially acceptable to eat meat. This is why meat eaters find it so shocking and often exclude those who do not. In some societies it is more acceptable to be a vegetarian and those who are not as excluded. The point is, that we should base our choices and decisions on more than what is the "social norm." The social norm may or may not be correct. It is okay to care about society. I am probably a socialist in this regard because I think that all humans should have certain things like food, medical etc. However, society can also be educating us in an incorrect way too. The American society has some serious problematic issues and we should question these and change them. If we don't change them....they are going to change us. If we run out of food because we are over farming or eating far more than our share then we are going to have a problem. Another issue other than food....also quite controversial, is that many in our society believe that people having medical is a privilege and not a right. We are paying a FORTUNE for people to NOT have medical. If you look at our national debt that we owe over 46% to China and Japan you are going to see that much of that debt is because of people who do not have medical. Of course all of these issues are complicated, but in my little corner of the world I do the best I can to change things for my own life. This is my point in bringing up the point of socialism and how we get from there to here.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 14 2010 15:53 (UTC)	108
Original Post by nomoreexcuses: Socialism: (1) any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods By this definition, in the u.s. we have government ownership of schools and we have government administration of the distribution of educational services But maybe by some other definition our educational system would not meet the criteria. And it is well to point out that just because (many of) our schools are owned and administered collectively (we all get to vote for school board, and in NC, we vote for Lt. gov & treasurer who serve on the state board of education), doesn't mean that public education is necessarily inferior. I truly believe you get out of it what you put into it. So.. you can't be a slackass and come out with a sterling education. Neither can you do this in a private school or in a home school. I won't get into this too much because I think it is off topic. You can ask any public school this question if you wish. When a child is enrolled in public schools they become wards of the State to be educated as the States feels they should be. The teachers become their "custodians" which means that they are in the "custody" of the State. What would you call this? It doesn't mean it is bad...it just means that children are educated to react and believe in socially acceptable ways. The first question that public schoolers ask a private schooled parent is...."how are they being socialized?" This is in fact, more important than being educated in America. But...this really has absolutely nothing to do to soy beans and I no longer have children at home. For me it is irrelevant, so sort of pointless to talk about.
The Lounge	Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?	Jun 14 2010 15:04 (UTC)	113
Original Post by phoebe_luvs_smallville: I've noticed that some individuals on cc get really worked up when someone mentions that they are vegetarian or vegan as a way to help the environment. Not everyone does this, but some people get on the offensive and start to bash the vegetarian or vegan's views on food. Also, I've read a lot of arguments on cc over soybeans. Are soybeans the Anti-Christ of food? I'm a bit baffled by all the controversy. Just curious to know anyone's opinion... I also find this amusing because when I was growing up soy beans were mana from heaven. It was THE food. Over the years I have found that the marketing machine chooses various foods to be the "IT" food. The reason I avoid soybeans is that they are ALL bio genetically engineered. I am sure they won't kill me or make me grow a 3rd eyeball, but I try to stick with fresh, local foods as much as possible. Although, I am sure if we lived near a nuclear plant this might be a bad system. Lol! We just have to think a bit more about how we are producing food for our population. This is the most important. Are we producing the best quality in the best possible way? Is what we are eating hurting anyone? Is it the most efficient? As intelligent beings we really have to stop being so reactive and "RIGHT" and start finding solutions.

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