question about my fast and workout routine
So I have my bi-annual fast coming up in march. i also have a work-out plan that requires exercising for quite a while on some days. I have fasted for a week 5 times, this march 16th - 22nd will be number 6.
When I told this to a friend and fellow dieter, he said that exercise damages the muscles, and eating protein afterwards is what repairs them and builds them up more. He said that if I don't eat protein (or at least something) after working out that I will lose muscle mass and my muscles will hurt.
Now, I don't quite believe him because I have fasted twice a year for the past three years and my muscles have never hurt. Actually, the only difference I notice is the hunger for the first two or three days (which subsides afterwards), and then after the 3rd or 4th day of fasting I get a bit of a 'natural high' which is quite a pleasant feeling, lol. My friend who told me this thinks he's a genius because one time he read a men's health magazine and now he thinks he's some sort of nutritionist. He's 18, by the way, and I happen to know he doesn't have much experience in a) exercise and the gym b) nutrition (he eats like crap) and c) fasting (honestly even 3 days without food/smoking/drugs/alcohol would do wonders to help clean him out mentally and physically)
Is eating protein afterwards the only way to repair your muscles? I don't know if muscles are even "damaged", so to say, from exercise, like I said, I heard this from an unreliable source. Can someone confirm? I would like a reliable source for this answer.
My week-long fast means no food, no cigarettes, no sex, no drugs/alcohol of any kind, no beverages other than water for seven days.
Trust me, the hardest part of this is not the lack of food, but the lack of cigarettes, booze, sex, and marijuana for a week. lol.
Please, no posts saying I will lose muscle mass anyways because of the fast, that's not actually true. I have fasted 5 times before and I know what I am doing. Your body goes to the food in your digestive tract first (and "eats" that for 2 to 3 days) and then its on to fat stores BEFORE it goes for the muscle. Fasting is actually good for you, believe it or not I don't care, I just don't want posts from people thinking they know what they're talking about when they haven't the slightest clue.
How much research have you done yourself into this topic? I'm just curious, because even though I am not into fasting, I've read plenty from "reputed sources" that tell you yes, working out without the proper nutrition actually SHRINKS your muscles (yes, due to the damage). As in, faster than if you did not work out during your fast.
I will send a few links your way in a minute.
You may be unnerved to know that in addition to decreased protein synthesis, protein breakdown increases in muscle following a 12-hour fast in humans. If you put these two measurements together, you may see that there's a net release of amino acids from muscle. Why does this happen? It's actually to provide our gut with amino acids during times of starvation. That's right, our bodies break down our muscle so it can increase protein synthesis in our gastrointestinal system (Meek et al., 1998)!"
"These symptoms let us know that the exercise has depleted the muscle's fuel resources, caused some minor damage, and that the muscle is in need of replenishment and repair. While the words depletion and damage may sound like negative things, they're not if they only stick around for a short period of time. You see, these changes allow the muscle to adapt by getting better at the exercise demands placed on it.
Therefore if you're doing endurance exercise, the muscle will become depleted and damaged in the short run, but in the long run it will super compensate, building itself up to be a better aerobic machine. And if strength training is your thing, you'll tear down you're weaker muscle fibers in favor of building up bigger, stronger ones."
"
However any ol' amount of carbohydrates will not do. You need to consume enough carbohydrates to promote a substantial insulin release. Insulin is the hormone responsible for shuttling carbohydrates and amino acids into the muscle. In doing this, carbohydrate resynthesis is accelerated and protein balance becomes positive, leading to rapid repair of the muscle tissue.
Therefore, by consuming a large amount of carbohydrates, you will promote a large insulin release, increase glycogen storage, and increase protein repair. Research has shown that a carbohydrate intake of 0.8 to 1.2 grams per 1 kilogram of body weight maximizes glycogen synthesis and accelerates protein repair."
"If you wait too long [to eat], glycogen replenishment and protein repair will be compromised."
As for the 'natural high', I've read that anorexics report feeling this too after starving their bodies for some time. I don't know how true this is but I've heard that it's your body producing something similar to acetone that produces this high. I wouldn't take this as confirmation from your body that it likes being overworked and underfed.
Why exactly are you doing this fast anyway?
People do fast all the time for religius reasons, which I suppose are valid for them, but from a strict health standpoint fasting is bad for you; to your body fasting and starvation is the same thing.
You do know - or should know given your ambition to be a personal trainer - that muscle growth is induced by microtrauma to the muscle protein (small tears in the muscle fibre) and subsequent repairs. If you do this in a protein-deprived state your body has no choice but to recycle your damaged muscle protein to amino acids instead, which will cost you muscle mass. Therefore, vigorous exercise in a prolonged protein-deprived state is counterproductive to any fitness goal that involves gaining muscle size or strength.
Having a 3500 calorie deficit can see you lose about 1 pound of fat if you do it right, or six pounds of muscle if you do it wrong. This is definitely wrong - and what kind of deficit will you be running when you're exercising in a fasted state? It probably won't all be coming out of your muscle protein; but you will definitely be encouraging the body's tendency to rely on muscle protein for energy during a calorie-deprived state.
To me this appears like a recipe for disaster - at a minimum you should get medical clearance and conuslt an exercise physiologists before even attempting exercise in a prolonged fast.
Original Post by heathersquared:
If you've done it 5 times before with no lasting harm, why worry about it now? Are you doing something different, or just worried about what your ill-informed friend thinks? Cut back on your exercise if you begin to feel overly fatigued, and call your MD if anything else goes wrong. People fast all the time. I'm just amazed you can do it!
i hadnt exercised before when i was fasting, thats the only difference. i was very lazy then :P and as for the natural high it sets in way before starvation would, and its very slight. its not a "high" but just a happier mood and an all-around more positive outlook
Hey Cody- Ive fasted before, although, not longer than for 72 hours. I also exercise quite a bit. Maybe what you could do is plan on doing your regular routine the first 2 or 3 days (depending on how you feel around days 3) and then switch over to some yoga or pilates classes.
I'm thinking maybe Ill join you on your week long fast. it would be my first, and having some support might make it easier.
I commented about fasting and being pregnant, but then I saw your miscarriage post. I have had a miscarriage, too. I'm sorry for your loss. Maybe it wasn't time yet to have a baby. I would suggest fasting from everything you said but food. Especially if you are wanting to stick with your rigorous workout routine.
Original Post by revolution3:its not anorexic, you ignorant jerk.
If you want to preserve your muscle, and aspire to be a personal trainer, why is it that you goal weight would put you at an anorexic BMI? I'm sorry if that sounds rude; no need to answer.
i have fat on me. i do. my doctor agrees. my body fat percent is higher than it should, i get it checked weekly at the gym. I assume that the number on the scale i want would be at 115 judging by the actual fat i lose per pound so far.
not everyone is skinny at 125. some people, like me, are skinny fat at 125. You suck for judging me like that. i hate you :)
besides, you're the ones who's 116. hypocrite.
Original Post by mrscraigwilson:I commented about fasting and being pregnant, but then I saw your miscarriage post. I have had a miscarriage, too. I'm sorry for your loss. Maybe it wasn't time yet to have a baby. I would suggest fasting from everything you said but food. Especially if you are wanting to stick with your rigorous workout routine.
i dont want to put off the routine so im going to put off the fast until im done at least two months of my new workout routine. its mostly spiritual reasons i do it (also helps with some other things) so please dont say i shouldnt ever fast because it offends me and my beliefs. im also not in a good mood today because people dont understand being "skinny fat" as i receive many email about how im anoerxic, when im very much NOT. its offensive.
and if i offend any jackass today i dont reallycare.
Look at the facts before you snap. That BMI WOULD be anorexic. I didn't say you were anorexic, or call you anorexic, or anything, but that BMI is a factor of anorexia.
Oh, and I'm 102. Result of an eating disorder.
So why exactly do you fast? Is it a religious thing? Because to me, it seems like an un-needed added bodily stress. Is it a juice fast or a "nothing at all" fast that you are doing?
If you care about your body, why put it through such a thing? I agree that one week won't do irreperable harm. I'm just wondering. If you want to clean out toxins from your body, take a product like Colosan. It naturally flushes out toxins and you don't have to put your body through the stress of fasting.
Your friend was right, but only if you're going to do some serious weight lifting and going through the 'bulking-up' phase of body building. It's true that if you over-train and under-nourish, your body will take muscle to build muscle. But you technically won't lose much or any. It will just be counter-productive if you're trying to build muscle. Big deal.
And why is everyone (including you) worrying if you have fat on your or not? The point of a fast is not to lose fat, but to cleanse and to purify. Sometimes in order to do that you need to get rid of toxic tissue, and that tissue may be muscle. Whatever.
Most fasters do reccomend not exercising during a fast, and drinking a lot of water and going into FAR infrared saunas and steam rooms and salt water pools and things of the like. Look at it as a time of rest and renewal, and you'll get that much more out of your fast.
Original Post by allie391:If you care about your body, why put it through such a thing? I agree that one week won't do irreperable harm. I'm just wondering. If you want to clean out toxins from your body, take a product like Colosan. It naturally flushes out toxins and you don't have to put your body through the stress of fasting.
Your body has been evolving to get rid of stuff it doesn't want ("toxins") for millions of years, it is very efficient at getting rid of this stuff and products like Colosan won't do you any good in speeding up the process.
Original Post by edamame3:Your friend was right, but only if you're going to do some serious weight lifting and going through the 'bulking-up' phase of body building. It's true that if you over-train and under-nourish, your body will take muscle to build muscle. But you technically won't lose much or any. It will just be counter-productive if you're trying to build muscle. Big deal. If you under-nurish your body it will definatly burn muscle, muscles takes more calories to maintain than fat so your body will get rid of it first if it thinks it's starving.
And why is everyone (including you) worrying if you have fat on your or not? The point of a fast is not to lose fat, but to cleanse and to purify. Your body cleanses and pruifies itself really well already, all cleansing does is slow down you body and make it LESS EFFICIENT at removing "toxins" Sometimes in order to do that you need to get rid of toxic tissue, and that tissue may be muscle. Whatever.
Most fasters do reccomend not exercising during a fast, and drinking a lot of water and going into FAR infrared saunas and steam rooms and salt water pools and things of the like. Look at it as a time of rest and renewal as well as starvation and mal-nourishment, and you'll get that much more out of your fast.
For 'millions of years' as one of you said, the body has been evolving to get rid of toxins. Fair enough. But the ratio in which the human race has been hunters and gatherers living off of completely pure land (with toxins, but not unnatural ones) compared to industrialization is completely unbalanced. For millions of years humanity has adapted to the hunter and gatherer diet, NOT the processed refined sugar/refined flour/lack of activity/horemone-injected milk and meat lifestyle we've adopted recently.
That is why diabetis and obesity are becoming epidemics. That is why insulin resistance and other things related directly to diet are becoming more and more prevalent. We evolved faster than our bodies.
Therefore, we need to help our bodies out. It is a toxic environment. Cancer and Heart disease are prevalent now more than ever. That's the direct result of our changing environment and no anthropologist or even doctor would argue otherwise.
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