Just a question..that I'm sure will spark a debate..

I have read these forums so much everyday since I've started and everyone says that<1200 will slow your metabolism so much that you will not lose weight and that your body will just cling to anything you put in it and store it as fat...

 Well when I think about this it doesnt make sense to me. How could your metabolism slow down if you are not only limiting yourself to less than 1200 calories, but working out and burning those calories at the gym. Our bodies are smart..but they cant hold on to fat and calories that are being burned as you work out and lift weights.

It d*mn well can.

 Not only can it do that, but it will. Obesity at 700 calories a day lays it out for you in detail, but yes, bottom line, it's completely possible to make your metabolism so hyperefficent and tuned so low as to retain and even gain weight on an ultra-low calorie diet, and this is an extremely common situation.

You should talk to some 'bandsters' i.e. people who've had weight-loss surgery.  They often physcially can't take in more than 500-700 a day and, even though they lose weight rapidly to begin with, many of them never actually achieve a healthy weight because their metabolism eventually slows to a crawl.

There are other reasons for not going below 1200 cals.  At that level you risk serious malnutrition problems.  So you can end up quite skinny but very sick & depressed.

I didnt read that entire article...but from what I did read...she didnt excercise AND she binged because of such low calories. What if she did exercise? And did not binge? Just because the majority of people that restrict their calories like that eventually binge, doesnt mean they all do.

Case in point....ME. I did this kind of restricted diet 2 years ago, I never binged, and lost a lot of weight. Also, I kept the weight off. Only reason I am so ridiculously overweight is because I had a complicated pregnancy that put me on strict bedrest for months and HAD to eat high fat foods often.

In the article the woman's 'binges' were a few chocolate biscuits at the weekend... say an extra 400 or 500 cals.  That wouldn't even register on someone with a normal metabolism.  But her starving body rapidly stored it as fat. 

Your case doesn't really add anything to the argument. The fact that you got thinner doesn't mean how you achieved it was healthy.  

"Binge" in that article is defined as doubling her calorie intake - by eating 4-5 chocolate chip cookies, a handful of potato chips, one small serving of ice cream, or having a normal-sized portion of pasta on the weekend.

 You cannot safely exercise on such a low-calorie diet, your body will cannibalize your muscle tissue to keep you alive and to fuel your workout, and it will preferentially use muscle protein from your most active muscle - your heart.

 That is if you're even able to muster the motivation to work out on such an insanely restricted diet, which is not a given assuming you're not an exercise bulimic or suffer from other ED-related conditions. Absent any mental problems that distort the picture, the low-calorie diet will depress your CNS function and make it extremely improbable that you're able to work out at all, or at any appreciable and useful intensity.

There will be no debate like others have said the body becomes more efficient at burning energy and you end up fighting your body and obesity, besides the eat no less than 1200 for women and 1500 for men rule is what stops members from gradually lowering their calories over time to starvation levels,

Original Post by gi-jane:

In the article the woman's 'binges' were a few chocolate biscuits at the weekend... say an extra 400 or 500 cals.  That wouldn't even register on someone with a normal metabolism.  But her starving body rapidly stored it as fat. 

Your case doesn't really add anything to the argument. The fact that you got thinner doesn't mean how you achieved it was healthy.  

 

I never said the way I achieved it was healthy. I KNOW it wasnt, my point was, that everyone says you wont lose weight on a very restricted diet, and I did and kept it off. I guess I am trying to convince myself here, and in turn need some convincing. I dont want to go back to that habit of eating such low calories, and kiling myself working out. But I KNOW that if I try eating what I actually should eat and DONT lose weight, I will be very discouraged and stop eating. I recognize that I have this problem and am TRYING to beat it.

You didn't ultimately, 'keep it off'.  That's the clincher as  far as I'm concerned.   I know there were mitigating circumstances but, if your very low calorie diet had been truly effective, you wouldn't have regained the weight at all.   How often do we read 'XYZ diet worked for me and I've lost weight twice doing it'? If 'XYZ diet' really worked, there would be no need to do it twice.

The only way to convince yourself that eating a sensible amount and doing moderate exercise will let you lose weight is to do it, I'm afraid.  Be prepared that there will be weeks when you don't lose weight or even gain slightly - that's normal.  Be prepared that you will have days when you want/need to eat more than usual - that's also normal.   And also be prepared that there is no such thing as an 'ideal weight'.  Being fit, well and happy is far more important than some mythical magic number on the scales.

Yes well -  Kimmer created a 6-800 calories a day diet that caused long-term, lasting damage to the people who followed it. Want to know what happens when you follow an ultralow-calorie diet? 

"I began losing hair at an alarming rate. Now I know hair loss is not uncommon with a large weight loss but it really is at epidemic levels among kimkins members. Along with the hair loss and dizziness, the burst of energy I had in the beginning completely disappeared. I was lethargic and listless with a short attention span and mood swings. I would wake up in the middle of the night with my heart racing. I think now that was due to dehydration and mineral loss."
-Julie:

If you want to see your children grow up you need to take better care of yourself than Julie and the other Kimins' dieters did. As Duke's example shows there's no need to starve or kill yourself to lose weight consistently and safely. Just follow the standard CC diet, exercise within the constraints of your current fitness level, and you will have results in a timely manner.

try thinking of it this way.  You need 15 gallons of gas to fill your tank and get you to your destination.  What if you only put 11 gallons in?  For a while...quite a while, you will be driving around just fine, but you will stop short of your destination.  Your short changing in gas WILL catch up with you.  The question is when?  Can you drop calories for a week and be fine...most likely...but it WILL catch up with you.  It may take more time to lose weight while eating, but your body will thank you but being healthy and "allow" you to eat and not gain...

As melkor mentioned you will utilize your muscle tissue for energy if your calories are too restricted.  Unfortunately you will have less muscle mass to burn energy.  When you gain the weight back as fat you no longer have the lean muscle to burn it as effectively.  Therefore weight loss becomes far more difficult.  Severly reducing calories for faster weight loss is counterproductive to good health. Although it can be done who wants to deal with the consequences in the end.

Your body will burn Healthy muscle and water before it burns fat if you dont eat enough healthy calories. Remember that muscle weighs more than fat but it also takes up less space so dont just go by weight of a normal scale.

Even calorie account aside, you can't even get enough of the vitamins, minerals, fiber, etcetc, from eating so little!  And vitamin pills are no excuse!!  Our bodies need REAL food.

Ok eat 800 cals a day since that what it sounds like you want to do.

My good friend lost a ton of weight doing the five bite diet. She ate five bites of whatever 2-3 times a dayand that was it. She lost weight and lost it quickly. But over two and a half years she has gained it back. she even keeps her calorie intake under 1200 calories and still is slowly gaining. It seems to me that she has totally slowed her metabolism. Also when she lost the weight she lost a lot of muscle mass from losing so quickly so she was skinny fat....meaning very flabby. So the scale had a good number but her body didnt look great like it would have had she had a proper diet. Eat well and excercise and it will come off. Ive lost 45lbs since last fall and Ive just watched portions made healthy food choices and excercised. I have 4 kids and need to feel good and have energy to take care of them as well as myself. Do it the right way your body will thank you! :)

You will look gross because you won't have any muscle.

I thought the point of losing weight was 1) getting healthy 2) improving attractiveness. Ultra low calorie diets  damage your health long term, AND they burn off all your muscle until you look like skin and fat hanging off bones. Why are you doing this again?

You're wasting your time twinmommy928.  I brought this issue up a few weeks ago and had a bunch of diet industry advertisements thrown in my face to prove I was wrong.   No one makes any money if you don't yo-yo with your weight.  Binge, diet, binge, diet...  That's where money is made...  Any unbiased study done by a doctor or researcher not trying to sell you something will confirm what you've already said. 

 

Hey Melkor, you really should be getting paid for putting ads up on this forum.  Their not articles, they're called advertorials.

 

 

Original Post by spirochete:

Ok eat 800 cals a day since that what it sounds like you want to do.

 

I never said anything about eating only 800 calories. Actually I dont remember mentioning anything about how much I do eat. What part of "I recognize that I have this problem and am TRYING to beat it" dont you understand. Dont respond if all you have is a negative attitude. All I was trying to do was understand the logic behind all of this.

 AND BTW.....for those of you who say that I would look gross doing it that way....I know that is a load of bull. Like I said...I did this 2 years ago. So obviously I have been down this road and know the outcome. I did not look gross. I was very toned and not flabby at all.......and for those of you who cant read....I didnt gain the weight back because the diet failed....I gained it back because of a complicated pregnancy.

Also, for those of you who actualy answer my question and were polite, none of the above is directed towards you.

 

badandrew- I realize now that it is pointless to ask about this in the first place. What you said makes total sense. Thanks for pointing it out.

Before we get into name calling, here is the best way to think about this.  It's all about energy.  And mass.  E=MC^2  The body does this by using fat, carbohydrate, protein, and alcohol to create a molecule called ATP, which in turn fuels the biochemical processes of the body.  The body also uses these same chemicals to build other carbohydrates, fats, and proteins.

So lets use the metaphor of a house in winter with limited fuel delivery for the heat and power.  The first thing that you do is start using the fuel you have stocked up.  But then you realize that if you use up all the stored fuel in December, you may not have enough for March, so you try to not use the reserves up, and instead start turning things off.  but after awhile you realize that may not be enough to keep you warm, so you start putting the furniture, wallpaper, interior doors in the furnace just so you don't run out of your normal fuel.  Pretty soon you've gone to the least amount of energy needed by just heating two rooms in your house, but the rest of the house is starting to get pretty bad looking.

Those two rooms are your heart and brain, and rest of the house can be very big, such as a very obese person, so they have lots of reserve fuel availible and as such lose faster.  Or the house could be made from stone, so only the extra fuel (fat) is burned.  But not everyone has brick houses, just like everybody can't use a very-low-calorie diet.

Even under medical supervision, VLC diets are rarely used to get to a "normal" weight.  More often just to get that 30 extra pounds which may reduce (not eliminate) the risk of weight related diseases.

Original Post by twinmommy928:

 

 

 AND BTW.....for those of you who say that I would look gross doing it that way....I know that is a load of bull. Like I said...I did this 2 years ago. So obviously I have been down this road and know the outcome. I did not look gross. I was very toned and not flabby at all.......and for those of you who cant read....I didnt gain the weight back because the diet failed....I gained it back because of a complicated pregnancy.

What are you trying to prove?

Lets say you don't gain it back

Lets say you keep going and losing more and more

and then you become so obsessed with every crumb of food that goes in your mouth that you start to isolate yourself

and nothing matters

except staying thin, and eating less. And less. And less. Why? because eating x amount of calories isn't enough to make you lose anymore, so you have to bring the number lower. And lower. And lower.

Soon your gogeous muscle definition gets eaten away because your body has no choice, there's no fat left.

Then your bones.

Think you can stop before it gets that bad? Think again.

I thought I could too.

Now my liver is failing, My bones are brittle, my hair is like straw, my whole body is bruised from bumping my bones, I can't concentrate, Acid has eaten away at my stomach lining and it's developing ulcers, My nail break before they get a chance to grow, My eyes look dead, I may never be able to have children and my mental health is in jeopardy.

Appealing isn't it?

Wake up to yourself.