question for you ladies....men too would be helpfull.

so my fiance is 23 and i just turned 23 a couple months ago. We are engaged but dont plan on any wedding for a couple years. He just graduated with an engineering degree and is doing whatever mechanical engineers do in automotive. He just moved to my city where im finishing up my nursing degree with 1 yr left. So you can say we will have a pretty good life i would think :-)

There is no wedding for another couple years. we rarley even talk about it. We want to get me done with school, we both kinda want to be "settled" into our jobs and take things slowly. heck, were still young :-). ANNNYWAY my question here is: I've been with this guy since i was 17 years old. we are both very family oriented and i'm undecided about myself having children or not. Im only 23 so i have some time to decide. Im like 75% sure i do SOMEDAY (like 30 yrs old). i dont know my fiance's views on this because he says things that make me wonder. like we went out to subway one day and this little boy threw himself on the floor and started kicking and screaming and the parents like just stood there.  iwas like "Well jeez, what wonderfull parents this kid has" and he said something like "If my kids did that...." and my fiance also plays hockey and he has his whole life so hes really into it and he will say like "Our kids are going to play hockey" and he always makes jokes about "our kids knowing calculus by 5 years old" (Obviously he isnt serious lol). So part of me is like maybe he does....BUT THEN!!!!

we were at his parents house and his little cousins were there. His little cousin was crawling across our laps making this weird car noise...just kinda being annoying. it didnt bug me but then his mom came in and was like freaking out because "we look cute with a kid together" (i was like oh gawd...) anyway hes like "I never want kids!" and another time i was helping his parents move and his mom had a huge box of his old clothes and he asked why she saved that cause it wont fit him anymore (haha) and shes like..."For your kids" and hes like "im never having kids!"

like i dont want to bring up the topic because i dont want to feel like we are moving to fast since we arent planning any wedding for another couple years and we are only 23!!!! He is the type that doesnt like to plan to far ahead, he likes to take things as they come. So for him to have that talk would be kinda a big deal. Why does he do that?!?! what the hell does he want?? i dont want to get married and find out we have completley different views on this topic. He would be an excellent father someday so it's not like im going to bring them into this world with a complete bonehead!! Again- im undecided as well but its just the mere fact he confuses me! one of my friends says she thinks its because he thinks he does SOMEDAY but he doesnt want to admit it infront of his friends or parents and show is "weak side"- which is partially true because whenever i bring up anything about the wedding he is more than willing to talk about it. when his friends or parents do hes like "I dont want to talk about it right now"

sorry so long :-p kudos to whoever reads it all.

This is what has happened in my relationship (I know it's nothing like you and your fiance, but I hope it helps).  I started dating my husband around the time I graduated from college.  We were friends all through college it just never clicked that we should be together.  We dated less than a year before he proposed and got married about 6 months after that.  In our minds it made no sense to live in the same town and be around each other so much if we weren't married (we didn't live together until we were married).  Why are you all waiting so long to get married if you already know you want to?  I guess.. I just don't understand making a commitment to marry someone without going right ahead and marrying someone.. could you explain more?.... So we got married.  That was over a year ago.  Recently we had the baby talk because friends of ours found out they are expecting and it's been brought up a lot.  He finally opened up about it and let me know how he was feeling.  I think the most important thing was that he felt safe talking to me about something so personal.  (my husband can appear rather gruff on the outside too)  You have to be able to trust your partner on very deep levels and children are a big deep level.  We don't know when we want children and we don't know how many but I do know that when we are ready it's going to be amazing.  You will have plenty of time to get to know your fiance, and even more time after you are married.  My husband has grown to be my best friend and confiding in him is a wonderful wonderful gift, I hope that you can have that too.  I would say, however, that it is vitally important that you agree on the children issue before marriage.  People can change their minds but I would sugguest that you find out for certain if he's just afraid to appear weak or if it's something he really doesn't want.  It would be worth a sit down conversation before you say I do.

Yeah, thats not really like my situation because atleast your husband is willing to discuss it. He wont "talk about it" but he says things like that. But thanks for that...its good to know he isnt completley helpless and maybe over time.

Everyone thinks its odd we dont get married right now, and i really dont like people pressuring us because of it. It is our decision and we are doing what we think is best for us. He went half way across the country to the top engineering school in the country and i stayed back at our home town and attended nursing school. Reason i stayed: i got an internship in cardiology! i couldnt turn that down. He had an internship with Harley Davidson, and i didnt want to make him turn that down! i mean, who would make their loved one stay? he promised me he would move back when he completed school and wanted more than anything to have this intern spot. So i let him go (duh!) we were apart for 4 years!!!!! we saw each other on holidays and talked every night. He is a very trusting guy...i trusted him with everything. he has the biggest heart so there was no doubt we couldnt do a long distance thing. After 4 years of being apart, we are now together and its such a shock for us!! like i couldnt imagine being apart for 4  years then getting married RIGHT AWAY. and having the pressure of the wedding, getting me through my last year of school, getting settled in his job etc. It would have been too much for me and him to handle. So we decided it would be best untill i'm done with school untill we even start planning. We did what we thought was best for us, and its been working great. We are taking things slowly and one thing at a time.

In order for a marriage to be successful, communication is key. You're planning to marry someone and you don't even know if he wants the same things out of life. I feel 100% comfortable discussing difficult topics with my husband and I think any marriage or serious relationship should be like that.

I don't want to seem rude but it also sounds like maturity may be a factor as well. What you're saying sounds like something that would have come out of my mouth when I was in college. Your fiance also sounds like he has some maturing to do. He does sound like a stereotypical male when it comes to the subject of having kids. He won't discuss having kids around his friends because it will show his weak side? Seriously? Having a helpless baby depending on you to feed it, clothe it and show it how to be a decent human being takes a pretty big man, in my opinion, so it should not be something he's embarrassed about discussing in front of anyone.

You need to pony up and communicate with him. Tell him everything you just wrote up there. If you're going to spend the rest of your life with him, you need to learn to talk to him about these things.

First off:  I understand more about why you're waiting a while to get married. I didn't realize that the two of you were apart for so long.  It makes sense to get used to being around each other.  My husband and I are very different in that way (we figured.. why wait!?).  I have friends from college who did the same thing, they were apart for four years and then moved to the same town for work and to get to know each other on a local level and then the next year got married. 

However, I completely agree with Bier.  The two of you must have open communication with each other.  If you aren't comfortable talking to your fiance about something this important (while being completely honest) then something is wrong.  My husband can be a tough nut to crack as well, but when he gets in that defensive 'this isn't very comfortable to talk about' mood, I get just as tough back and lay the cards on the table.  It is important that your partner realize that even though it's not something he thinks is important, or something that he wants to talk about, that it is something that is important to you.  He should be willing to hear your heart. 

I've noticed that while my husband doesn't think changing diapers and feeding children in the middle of the night isn't fun and cute, he gets really excited about teaching our children about video games (I know, it's silly but still) and helping them with their homework.  He was even emphatic when he talked with me, that he was more comfortable wanting one child so he could spend undivided attention with them.  Hearing him say those things spoke wonders to my heart and allowed me to love him deeper than I ever have before and we aren't planning on children for at least another two years.

Just like bier said, "if you're going to spend the rest of your life with him, you need to learn to talk to him about these things".  These topics aren't necessarily going to get easier, and they aren't going to go away.

Ahhh your not being rude! maturity is a factor....i agree.  Hence why i dont want to bring it up quite yet as im not mature enough and either is he. (i like the honesty!!!)

I do feel like i can talk to him about alot of things as he opens up to me alot more than he does anyone else. Obviously im not going to take it any further if we dont agree on the topic but it just has me worried because hes such an amazing guy. we dated since we were 17. hes my best friend, my everything!! and i'm fearfull of losing him. I think its more the fact i fear losing him over something like this than anything else.

Original Post by simignonne:

First off:  I understand more about why you're waiting a while to get married. I didn't realize that the two of you were apart for so long.  It makes sense to get used to being around each other.  My husband and I are very different in that way (we figured.. why wait!?).  I have friends from college who did the same thing, they were apart for four years and then moved to the same town for work and to get to know each other on a local level and then the next year got married. 

However, I completely agree with Bier.  The two of you must have open communication with each other.  If you aren't comfortable talking to your fiance about something this important (while being completely honest) then something is wrong.  My husband can be a tough nut to crack as well, but when he gets in that defensive 'this isn't very comfortable to talk about' mood, I get just as tough back and lay the cards on the table.  It is important that your partner realize that even though it's not something he thinks is important, or something that he wants to talk about, that it is something that is important to you.  He should be willing to hear your heart. 

I've noticed that while my husband doesn't think changing diapers and feeding children in the middle of the night isn't fun and cute, he gets really excited about teaching our children about video games (I know, it's silly but still) and helping them with their homework.  He was even emphatic when he talked with me, that he was more comfortable wanting one child so he could spend undivided attention with them.  Hearing him say those things spoke wonders to my heart and allowed me to love him deeper than I ever have before and we aren't planning on children for at least another two years.

Just like bier said, "if you're going to spend the rest of your life with him, you need to learn to talk to him about these things".  These topics aren't necessarily going to get easier, and they aren't going to go away.

 well said... i just didnt want to make it sound bad, "getting to know each other" like i dont want to make it sound like i dont know the guy im engaged to :-). But im sure you get it now.

he WILL open up on occasions. You just have to get him at the right moment...he knows where i stand, he knows im undecided. but he just like doesnt worry about anything like that at all...the most he has ever looked ahead into "our future" is where he wants to get a job to be with me. He turned down a position at harley davidson in their engineering department, to come home to me. i asked him why he did that cause as anurse i could get a job anywhere and he told me that he knows i want to live close to home and to work at the hospital i have my internship at right now.

Original Post by goldenathlete:

Ahhh your not being rude! maturity is a factor....i agree.  Hence why i dont want to bring it up quite yet as im not mature enough and either is he. (i like the honesty!!!)

I do feel like i can talk to him about alot of things as he opens up to me alot more than he does anyone else. Obviously im not going to take it any further if we dont agree on the topic but it just has me worried because hes such an amazing guy. we dated since we were 17. hes my best friend, my everything!! and i'm fearfull of losing him. I think its more the fact i fear losing him over something like this than anything else.

 What is "something like this?"  Is it potentially having children some day?  Are you willing to accept the answer if he says to you "Honestly, I don't want to reproduce."  Are you willing to stay with him and remain childless for your entire life?  He may change his mind, but you can't marry him assuming he will.  He might not.

So, is it a dealbreaker?  If it is, you absolutely should lose him over "something like this."  You should look for someone who's goals in life are more in line with yours.

But, you say you yourself are undecided about kids.  And you have a couple years before you walk down the aisle.  So, no need to decide today.  I'd just strongly encourage you to have an open and honest discussion about children prior to saying "I do."

^ yeah. this "something like this" is the children issue because to me, right now at this very moment i'm undecided as well. I'm VERY content with our relationship. But if we were to split and i found out someday i do want children i would probably kick myself in the head. Baiscally because i'm lucky i even found a guy like him!! he's always done what is right for us. hes very ambitious, very smart. he would make a wonderfull father someday, no doubt in my mind. I have a niece i watch alot and he is absolutley wonderfull with her. I've walked in on them talking to each other on a teletubie play phone (not something most guys i know do, not even her father talks to her on her teletubue play phone) and he always does this airplane thing with her that she doesnt let anyone else do because they dont do it like he can! I think once we settle down a little more and i'm done with school he will be more receptive to talking about it. It's just how he is...he's never wanted to take things fast!

i brought it up once briefly and hes like "we dont need to make that decision right now." i just said our views were different hes like "I didnt say i dont. i just dont think we need to discuss this right now. but you know i would never leave you and id do anything for us"- thats where it ended.

oh well :-p i think its more of a communication problem in our relationship than the actual issue of that ourselves. YYYYYea we are young and immature, but we are getting there! THaanks julie!

Something about him brushing it off on multiple occasions just rubs me the wrong way. It almost seems as if he has his mind made up and is afraid you won't like his answer. Granted, this is a conclusion drawn by a stranger based on limited information.

I agree with juliemae2 , this is something that you MUST discuss before marriage or you might find yourself very unhappy.

My answer is short and sweet--if you can't discuss this now, when can you? And if you can't discuss it now, what else can't you discuss and are you sure this is the man you want to marry?

Yes, without a doubt he is the one i want to be with! I would not spend 7 years of my life with someone if i wasnt sure. We didnt go through hell for 4 years of seeing each other once every 2 or 3months for nothing!!! yes it was hard, but it has certainly paid off. As we both have achieved our dream jobs (well me, almost) and are still together!

Not a doubt in my mind shawn would do anything for me. He would have kids if i were to leave him for it....but i dont want to force him into it. He would do anything for me, i just would want him to do it for the right reasons. Shawn is always doing what is best for us. He is truley a great guy, not once has he ever made me doubt it. He likes kids, hes great with them hes just said he isnt sure if they are for him. he was like it isnt something you can reverse or just return. I agree with that, which is why im unsure as well...i just worry more in the future whether this is going to be a big issue and looking if anyone has had this issue with their man. I mean are men afraid to grow up?? he's still young so its not like i need an answer by tomorrow.

I'm sure he's just undecided/not ready.  Hell, I'm 28 and have been married 4.5 years, and we're SILL undecided.

Some days I talk about our future kids, and my husband flinches.  Other days, he's cooing over babies, and I'm telling him it will never happen.  When you're both really ready, you'll figure it out.

I don't think it is a deal breaker unless you have polar opposite opinions on the matter, and it doesn't seem like you do.

I think you should just talk to him about it.  If your engaged to be married you two are obviously serious about each other, why not just ask him?  Do you or dont you?  It's as easy as that, then you wont have to speculate anymore.  You should be able to talk to him about anything and everything no matter what.

My boyfriend and I aren't even engaged and we know where we stand on the subject.  None for us. 

i agree with Kaffwynn.

im 20 and i been with my guy for like 3 years and he said the same thing!!! hes like "its not like buying a shirt. You cant return it." i was like "Well what if we dont want to?" he said it in a way i understand and it might help you lol.

He was like...if you were MAYBE going to an event where you needed a nice dress and you found one you really liked that was really expensive but had to return policy, would you buy it? i was like...well i would wait to see if i am going to the event first and look around at other dresses. hes like "Yes!!! and you cant return kids, like you cant return that dress. And you would wait for that event to come closer to find out if your going or not, just like we should wait to make that decision" basically it made sense to me cause i like shopping. Put it in a way i understand, and it makes sense. you cant return a kid! your stuck with them. He didnt say we wouldnt have the talk, we are engaged too and waiting till we both complete school, so its not like he is saying we wont at all but we dont have to make that decision now. He is too willing to discuss things infront of me but no one else. His friend brought it up once and he attempted to act all manly about it but when we are alone he will be like "OoOo Jennie i like these flowers!" but when hes with his family or with the guys, nope nope! flowers arent manly. I think its just how guys are. I wouldnt give up on him he seems like he has a good head on his shoulders. hes still young and trying to figure out what he even wants out of life.

hopefully my dress thing helped you put it into the way guys see it lol. Although a kid is more valuable than a dress, you get it.

In some odd kind of way that does make sense. but in NO WAY am i pressuring him. yes we will discuss it but i'm getting the feeling now isnt the right time for him. Hoping he will be more recptive to it when things kinda settle down. Pretty hectic right now since he just moved back and im crazy busy with school.

i dont plan on making my decisions any time soon. i just dont want us to have compleltey sperate views on this someday. Who knows maybe i wont and he will....

I didn't read through all the posts, so I apologize if I've repeated something that's already been said.

My husband and I may want kids "someday."  Like you, I'd prefer to wait until I'm in my 30's (if at all, mind you).  I want to make sure I'm more settled in my career, build up some paid maternity leave, etc.  So while I know I'm not even close to being ready now, I'm not totally ruling out the possibility of it happening in the future.

However, I had to start telling everyone that I was never having kids because I got so damn sick of everyone asking me when I was going to have them.  My MIL would not stop knitting baby clothes, I couldn't have a decent hangover without some smarta$$ remarking that it was probably morning sickness, and I just became fed up and decided I couldn't take all the pressure.  So as far as the rest of the world is concerned, I'm never having them. 

Perhaps your fiance is worried that his family will start putting pressure on him (and you!) if he lets them know that kids are in your future?  Just a thought.

I would definitely find out where he stands though.  If he's going to get funny about his future wife asking about kids, then there are some issues aside from kids to work out before you get married.

After reading through several of the posts I've come to the conclusion.. which is also a question.

Golden, why were you asking this question if it seems you already have the answer?

I think that if you make clear why you are asking, like tell him exactly what you told us; "you are giving mixed messages and I just want to check on what I have to make of it" that is not as if you are putting pressure on him to make a decision right there and then, it is just discussing his behaviour and making clear that it confuses you. Make clear that when you hear him say things like "I am never having kids", give you the feeling that there is no possibility ever, I think he would totally understand it if you would want to talk about that. Make really really clear that you are undecided on it as well and that you do not plan any time soon, but that it just makes you feel a bit weird when you hear him say things like that.

My husband and I dated for about 4 years before we got married.  I was in college, and I didn't want to get married until I finished.  I honestly don't know if I would've finished school if we'd gotten married right away.  I tried going to grad school after our honeymoon, but it didn't work out.  I had to work full time, so that meant night school.  By that point in my life, I was tired of going to school and I just wanted to spend as much time as I could with my husband when I wasn't working (you know how it is with studying and going to school-you don't get much time together). 

That said, I think you should have the talk about future plans and whether or not children are a part of that.  I think it's totally normal to bring it up whether you're undecided or not.  We talked about kids long before we ever got engaged.  I remember talking about kids with the guy I dated before my husband.  I was by no means ready to have kids back then, nor did I want any at that moment, but I knew I wanted kids eventually.  I wanted to make sure I was with someone who felt the same way I did.  If my husband had been dead set against kids, that would've been a deal breaker for me.  So, I say just ask him when you are alone together and can have an unbiased conversation.  If you don't know where he stands now, you may be sorely disappointed later.