Question for McCain supporters...

I've been hearing a lot lately about Obama being a socialist, people site Obama's plans for refundable tax credits for poor people (refundable tax credits mean you can a tax refund larger than the amount you pay in taxes) and quote him saying he wants to 'spread the wealth around'.

My question is why are Obama's refundable tax credits socialistic, but the refundable tax credits McCain has proposed are a reform? and why don't you accuse Sarah Palin of being a socialist after she added windfall taxes to oil companies in Alaska and then redistributed the tax money to the people of Alaska? Does it only count as socialism if you propose 'spreading the wealth around' but not if you actually do spread it around?

Original Post by kay_h:

Original Post by kathygator:

the percentage in the first  part of your response is inaccurate. Obama does not propose taking the taxes paid by 70% of the population and giving them to the 30% that don't pay.

Please provide a link.

Here you go.  This addresses both the numbers I gave and the "95%" that Mr. Obama talks about.  Search engines are easy to use.  But I admit my mistake.  According to this site, it is closer to 60-40.      http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/artic le/2008/oct/20/your-taxing-questions-answered /

You don't have to look at Alaska to see socialism at work. You just have to watch the federal bail out package unfold. Nationalizing banks? Now there's talk of buying up part of GM? These actions fit the strictest definition of socialism and under a republican administration, no less.

 Tell me about it!!  I am absolutely disgusted with the whole situation.  I am no expert and cannot really give an educated opinion on the need for this bailout, but even if all the doomsayers are right and the world as we know it will end if we don't make this money available, it occurs to me that you cannot adequately plan how to best use trillions of dollars in a matter of a few days.   Especially not the bozo's we have on the hill.  Ridiculous.

Kay.

 Your link does not prove your argument. Your link adresses the question of whether or not people who, because of current credits and exemptions, pay no tax, can be considered to have their taxes cut as Obama has claimed. And as it turns out just about 95% of Americans will still see some benefit in their taxes, according to your link. 

I have seen nothing here to indicate that we are going to start sending those folks additional money if their taxes owed is zero.

Yes. I know how to work search engines, and already have. That's why I asked for your source. :)

Hey guys, really enjoying this discussion.

I don't want to change the subject, but I would like an answer to this question, which I think applies to the OP. Why is it, that most Christians side with the Republican agenda? I don't mean to generalize or stereotype, just to look at trends. I was raised Christian, which I have mostly moved on from (dang Catholic guilt!) and I do not understand how someone who supposedly follows the teachings of Christ can be in support of a capitalist system. I'm no expert on scripture, but time and time again, Christ taught us to love our brothers, and to help those who where the poorest and weakest among us. How then, can a devout Christian justify a Republican vote? Voting for an agenda that keeps the poor poor, the sick sick, etc. I mean, Jesus Christ is arguable one of the most influential reformers of recorded history, whether you believe in his teaching or not, and he was a compassionate socialist in every way that I can see. It seems so counter intuitive and wrong to me, I honestly don't understand.

Is it just the abortion issue? I feel like the Republican party has taken that stance just to nab votes...I'm not sure. Just wondering, thanks.

Research the term Neoconservative.

Thanks, but I already understand what these people are and the political influence they have...what I don't understand is how does a true follower of Jesus Christ's teachings justify this?

I can't reconcile it other than to tell you that it's easier to get votes for "free stuff" and much harder to get votes for "restricting rights". The bible thumping side of the religious right and the limited government conservatives believe they need each other's votes so they become strange bed fellows.

I think that odd environment is what lead to the neoconservative movement.

Reagan and GHWBush both raised taxes.

Socialists.

Original Post by hgielrehtaeh:

Reagan and GHWBush both raised taxes.

Socialists.

 omg they both also received benefits from a government health care system!!!!

they are totally socialist!

Yes, but it's not even votes for "free stuff," it's votes for less taxes (or so they say...I realize this is not true) which means poorer schools, roads, health care, and other government provisions. Taxes provide rights, as far as I can see. 

It just doesn't seem very Christ-like to cling to your money (or to spend it frivolously) rather than help your neighbor who is in need. I don't think Jesus ever said, "Love your neighbor, as long as you think he works as hard as you and has had opportunity to get ahead in the past." I mean, what happened to giving your last coin? Alas, I will continue to turn the other cheek, Christian or not. I would really just like to hear a well-grounded argument from a Christian who is voting for McCain. I'm not trying to change views or votes at this point, I would honestly just like to try to understand!

As for the bedfellows, I see entirely how the religions right helps the government conservatives, but I do not see what they get in return.

Original Post by nomoreexcuses:

Original Post by hgielrehtaeh:

Reagan and GHWBush both raised taxes.

Socialists.

 omg they both also received benefits from a government health care system!!!!

they are totally socialist!

 ZOMG! And 100% of our Presidents have lived in Government Housing!!! Welfare Kings!