Questions on "Real Fast Fat Loss" Exercise Program (T-nation)

(Edited to clarify title)

I have been following the Real Fast Fat Loss program since ... well, since I first came across it in one of melkor's posts. I am supposed to do Day 5 today so I am not that far into it, but this is the closest I've come to consistency with an exercise program on my own (not as easy as with classes! but I feel I get a better workout. Of course, the efficiency vs motivation tradeoff is a different story)

Anyway, my questions: 

1. After just about every workout I feel a tightness in my shoulder/tricep/serratus, that makes it difficult to stretch my arms up overhead. Other muscles are sore to varying degrees, but this is the most noticeable. Is this a temporary tightness as the muscles repair, or am I losing some sort of flexibility?

2. I am not in a consistent caloric deficit. I am trying to eat about maintenance. I am also not logging food or exercise, so am not sure if these workouts are putting me in a deficit, but ... will I still see results, just not as fast?

3. Along the same lines, I know some people measure themselves weekly. Does the tape measure really change over that short a time, and are the changes meaningful (ie not just fluctuations)?

Thanks in advance :)

Were you seeing 2lbs/week before RFFL?

Because there's muscle building and all that good stuff too, right...

I'm 5'2" (on a good day in heels :-P ok j/k about the heels) so for me to run a 1000 cal deficit would mean eating in the dangerously low zone... but I'd take your -1lb in 1.5 weeks over my +2lb in 2 weeks any day!!

Of course this also isn't helping my goal of trying to be less obsessive/restrictive with calories. I still haven't quite figured myself out. :(

 It depended greatly on which phase I was in on my old program - during the "down" weeks with less intense workouts my weight hardly budged compared to the escalating-density periods, so my weight loss graph looks like an illustration of punctuated equilibrium. I think I posted the graph in one of my journal entries.

 So despite my roughly 1000-cal a day deficits I was losing at a slower rate for most of the time, on average 1.1 lbs/week. We'll see Saturday if I'm maintaining that pace on the RFFL program as well or if there's a change, neh?

 'Course, there's the building muscle thing as well in my slower-than-expected weight loss. I've been able to stretch the newbie gains period out a lot further than expected - well, a lot longer than I personally expected, anyway :)

hey there,

I returned to this program after my christmas break - of which i did some exercise at home but ate more than i should and am up two pounds.

Pre- christmas and again now i am really enjoying this workout program -  i am continually able to up my weights and achieve more reps in the kettle ball swing. Down a few inches, but still not losing any pounds. I am working on modifying my diet.  

 

I have to jump in on this real quick as I've checked out the link that the poster provided in their beginning thread.  I do most of these exercises, some are seperate (like the lunge, then I do overhead press) , some the same.  I'm a little worried though about the jump squat to chin with knee tuck last one in b column.  I do not have a pull up bar so any suggestions.  I can't do a pull up anyways.  I have to say though, I just started jump squats yesterday and I hurt today, but a good hurt.  I am taking a break today to start my new improved routine tomorrow.

Thanks for you time.

One more thing, would you suggest maybe a cardio day on 3 of the 4 off days?

Original Post by jjlewis305:

I have to jump in on this real quick as I've checked out the link that the poster provided in their beginning thread. I do most of these exercises, some are seperate (like the lunge, then I do overhead press) , some the same. I'm a little worried though about the jump squat to chin with knee tuck last one in b column. I do not have a pull up bar so any suggestions. I can't do a pull up anyways. I have to say though, I just started jump squats yesterday and I hurt today, but a good hurt. I am taking a break today to start my new improved routine tomorrow.

Thanks for you time.

i do cardio 2-3 days of the four off days...i try for three.

also, the pull ups are a lot easier when you add a jump up to the bar. still, i have trouble doing 15 of them as called for on some days. on those days, i make up my own exercise, usually consisting of jump squats, squat thrusts, planks, and pushups, making sure it's a full body exercise and it's something that keeps my heart rate up. so you can be a little creative. but i've also had a lot of fun sticking to the program as is, with that one exception. i'm in the third week of eight and already very pleased with the results. 

OK.  I started this workout today.  I hate it.  Which means I will probably not do it again.  It called for 5x5's I could only do 3x5s.  And I had to skip some lunges as I would like to be able to walk tomorrow.  My back is sore, I might have pushed a little hard.  I used 10lb weights which usually are fine during a single movement, but the complex movements I'm guessing did not benefit.  I even started to have a panic attack at one point, and was nauseated for an hour after, but I still managed some protein intake.  So anyone who is not as in shape as these fellow posters, might want to take it easy.  Not so easy for a 200 pound fat butt to split snatch.  I hate that word snatch.  Even in its innocence, I hate it.

Any suggestions from our new nifty moderator?

Well, I've got you beat by clocking in at 220lbs when starting this program and about 214lbs now; but you're right in that this isn't a  program geared to the complete beginner; it does take a while to get to a fitness level where something as taxing as this routine is really neccesary or even desireable; you don't want to kill yourself in the gym by going straight to a routine your body isn't prepared to handle.

 If you feel like this program is too much for your current fitness level, you're probably right; the point is to stimulate your muscles with appropriate challenges, not pound them into oblivion by trying to follow a program you're not ready for.

 You don't need to be nearly as cautious as I was though:  for the first 9 months of my exercise program all I did was walk and do some mild bodyweight calisthenics, and then I transitioned into the old program you can find I my previous journal entries, from summer on to New year's.

 I could probably have started RFFL about 3 months earlier than I actually did if I've been good at taking my own advice!

 I've been using the RFFL program since december 31, 2007 - or about 2.5 weeks. at this point; lost 5lbs while on it and I've gone from having having a 2.5-pack to about a 4.5-pack. This is still mostly due to diet though; diet is about 70% of your result.

Though Flowerbud's experience suggests that this program gives very variable results - and as you've noted you're limited in the weights you can use; when I'm doing regular one-armed snatches I can comfortably use an 82.5lbs dumbbell; when doing the 5x5 A workout I'm using 27.5lbs dumbbells; and for the 3x15 I'm all the way down to using 20lbs ones to even have a chance at completing the routine. Which is kinda ego-bursting - for the lunge/shoulder press on 3x15-day I've had to go as low as 16lbs dumbbells when I do regular shoulder presses with 44lbs.

 So it depends on what your goals are and your training age more than anything; for fat loss, increased aerobic/anaerobic fitness and building strength endurance it's a great program - for building maximal strength and size there are better programs avaiable, for a beginner needing to build up strength and work capacity there are also better options.

I have to tell ya strength training has always been a strong point for me.  I love it.  But I'm good at single movement exercises.  Lunges, squats, tricep bicep work, chest flys, deadlifts, sidelifts on and on.  So I'm pretty good there.  Its the compound movement that gets me.  I did workout B today and felt fricking like a rock star!  I just could not do 10 minutes of kettlebell swings.  Its an attention span thing.  So now I am totally looking forward to Workout A on Monday.

Also I have a question.  There was another site noted somewhere here or in another post on testoterone nation and article written by a woman.  Mainly talks about how yes woman can workout like men however don't expect to get that sleek sexy slender body.  Certain exercises will make your thighs look bigger or back.  She also has this Flip diet she prescribes.  She recommends 10 calories per pound of body weight, good news for me.  3 days 10% carbs/30%protein/60%fat and on day four flip to 60%carbs/30%protein/10%fat.  Can you really make your diet 60% fat.  I would have to eat almonds at every meal.  I thought to may tweek it just a bit and take the fat and add the protein.  What are your thoughts on this?

 I'm not much of a fan of playing games with your nutrition, really - personally I follow something very similar to what 2beIttyBitty wrote in her Sharing Info from My Nutritionist post. I put my diet together from Tom Venuto's book rather than my meeting with a nutritionist; but it's essentially the same approach. With 2BeIttybitty's post as a guideline though, you need neither - she's written everything you need to know as the foundation of your nutrition.

 That said, some body types need a swift kick in the rear to get the message when you're on a diet; in that case the Flip Diet may help goosing your metabolism as it were. But aside from Plateu busting and other special situations I think sticking to the approach 2BeIttybitty outlines is a far more sustainable and long-term healthy approach.

 I've been thinking a bit on some of the aspects of this program as far as strength training is concerned - and when you're doing hybrids like this program is based on you're limited by your weakest muscles in the complex. This would tend to lead to those weaker muscles catching up to the rest in terms of strength, since they're actually being challenged with resistance up near your limit strength - I've noticed that my shoulders have buildt up considerable strength and endurance from being hit so often with the various press/lunge combinations, where for example legs have mostly been doing endurance work in this program since the weights that make my shoulders whimper in pain aren't even noticed by the quads.

 I think this should lead to the weaker bodyparts catching up some in terms of absolute strength, and when you switch back to a more traditional program without complexes/hybrids that would tend to promote muscle growth over the long term as strength and muscle size is somewhat connected. Only somewhat - powerlifters and olympic weight lifters don't look nearly as strong as they are ;)

 Though this is still a bit of guesswork - I'm about 3 weeks into this program, with 3-5 more weeks to go; if we're lucky Bodyscience or one of the other real pros will stop by and reality-check my guesswork ;)

"I think this should lead to the weaker bodyparts catching up some in terms of absolute strength..."

I definitely agree with this comment from my experience. Forearms, for example, were less and less of a limiting muscle as I progressed on this program.

Wow thanks for that info.  I do have the Tom Venuto, burn the fat feed the muscle.  Fantastic read and I find myself referring to it often.  So just to make sure I am clear, if I continue with this regimen, soon those muscle that are weaker and unworked will become stronger in time of course because of the complex movements.  This is very exciting.  I hope thats what you mean.

I have to work on diet.  Right now I have been progressing toward good diet.  I am able to sit at the table and not eat pasta, rice, biscuits, a huge overcoming for me.  LOve my oatmeal and bran, so low carb is usually an issue with me.  Vegis and meat never a problem.  However sustaining that regimen is a problem.  I guess it willhave to take more dicipline.  Thanks for your responses, they are very thourough.

jjlewis -- everyone's opinions differ here but I don't think you need to go low carb. In fact, anaerobic exercise (such as lifting weights) requires energy in the form of glycogen which is supplied to your body by carbs, as I understand it. Just make most of your carbs complex. Brown rice, whole wheat bread, whole grain pasta, lots of veggies, and fruit too... and minimize refined carbs like white bread/pasta/rice etc.