Rant: Why are chips okay but not chickpeas?

I know people that eat pizza, hamburgers, fast food, chips, candy, cookies, and soda almost everyday.  They feed their children the same food as well.  Working in a deli, I saw kids ask for salads but their parents telling them no, they had to eat a deep fried corn dog w/french fries instead.  A 16-yr-old at Burger King, I saw the same poeple everyday after school getting their kids a full kids meal as a "after school snack before dinner".  The same people are trying to give their babies soda through a straw or put it in their bottles!  No one cares if a 3-yr-old eats nothing but hfcs-ladened cerial and some chicken nuggets w/fries in a day, but tell these same people that you're a vegetarian and they're "concerned for your health."  The irony makes me sick.

Sorry for the rant, I've just seen a lot of threads about people trying to decide how to "come out of the closet" w/their vegetarian lifestyle.  It makes me mad.  When did McD's become okay but not beans and rice?  I've never heard of an atkins dieter worry about how they'd tell their family they weren't going to eat carbs.  Why should it be any different with meat?  Vegetarian/veganism isn't a sickness or something to be a shamed of.  It's just a diet choice.  (And not fad "diet" choice as in atkins, but diet in it's real meaning -- what you eat from day to day).  I just don't understand why vegetarians/vegans have to justify day after day an eating style that's healhty, logical, and comapasionate.

So I guess this thread is for anyone that wants to take a minute to vent at the uninformed masses.

All those chicken and steak eaters need to see the movie: Food, Inc. That would cure them. When they see how the chickens are "bathed" in  cholorine bleach and the workers -from mexico- lose their fingernails due to the solution, then maybe they will decide that the hormone laden chicken is not something they want to feed their children or themselves. Every congressman should be ordered to watch that movie. The food industry could care less about the American people.

Amber,

I completely feel your rage! 

And to add to this discussion:

Doesn't it just blow your mind that when you tell someone you don't eat meat for ethical reasons, they stare at you like you are completely out of your mind. But it's suddenly O.K for someone not to want to eat meat because of religion. 

As if it requires millennia year old sacred scriptures just to justify being a vegetarian, but when you say 'I don't want to eat meat because I don't like putting animal carcasses in my mouth.' or 'I don't believe in force breeding and slaughter of animals,' you're just crazy. 

Original Post by amber_poole:

 When did McD's become okay but not beans and rice? 

 It depends where you're located.  If you're in certain parts of America, it seems, then vegetarianism is still quite an odd idea.  Same would go for somewhere like Spain.  But in many places around the world, vegetarianism is so common as not to cause even a raised eyebrow.... let alone require justification.  In the UK, for example, it's been standard for years to find vegetarian choices on menus, including in school cafeterias.  India has a rich vegetarian tradition.

It would be wrong to assume, however, that all vegetarians are bursting with health eating beans and rice any more that all omnivores exist on the type of rubbish they serve where you work.   (And only the mentally subnormal minority would give babies fizzy drinks in a bottle - be honest.)   I've known plenty of uninformed vegetarians that have come to grief because they lived on lots of cheese sandwiches, chips and chocolate.  One I knew didn't even like vegetables.  LOL!  If someone looks peaky they could reasonably expect their dietary choices to be questioned occasionally.   Yes, it is disturbing just how apalling some people's diets are (veggie and non-veggie alike) and plenty of us do actually care.  You'll find there are lots of initiatives - some government funded - to get populations to eat more fruit and vegetables rather than necessarily become 100% vegetarian.  Increasingly, McDonalds isn't 'OK'.. if you care about your health.

Condescension ('the uninformed masses'?.. not nice)  and holier than thou rantings are not required. 

Original Post by sleepybum:

Amber,

I completely feel your rage! 

And to add to this discussion:

Doesn't it just blow your mind that when you tell someone you don't eat meat for ethical reasons, they stare at you like you are completely out of your mind. But it's suddenly O.K for someone not to want to eat meat because of religion. 

As if it requires millennia year old sacred scriptures just to justify being a vegetarian, but when you say 'I don't want to eat meat because I don't like putting animal carcasses in my mouth.' or 'I don't believe in force breeding and slaughter of animals,' you're just crazy. 

I think the difference in reaction to vegetarianism reason, religion vs. ethics is because of the public's perception of both motives.  The general public is more willing to accept religion as a legitimate reason for not eating particular items.  IMO of the public's thinking "God" and "eternal damnation" trump "feeling bad because of the treatment of the animals."

For example, I know of the horrors that are rampant in the industrialized farming/livestock business.  I could probably watch "Food, Inc." and then go make myself a nice chicken dinner.  I like to eat meat and I'm not going to stop just because it gets to me in an "inhumane" way.  Does that make me an evil person? I don't think so.  If you feel bad about it, fine.  I have no problem with that.

In summation: I think that the majority of the population find it easier to relate to fear of an omnipotent being as a reason for not eating particular foods than they do any ethical dilemmas with particular foods.

I'm not a full blown vegetarian (wish I could be- it's so much healthier for you but I love meat too much to give it up totally) but you are SO RIGHT ON with everything you wrote! Great blog... it really made me 'think'.

LOL, I thought this post was going to be a different thread..like chickpeas have been discovered to have meat by product! I was just eating them so I was in my "WTH stage?" heheh. Yea, Im sure as vegetarians we all have had those close-minded individuals who scrutinize our "healthy" choice but then shove some garbage down their throat and go, "MM" like we should be envious.

For me, it is combination of reasons 1) I was 12 when I started exploring PETA websites 2) Im in a more spiritual sect of my religion which forbids meat eating, fish, and eggs 3) health reasons

Whatever reason you have, to the new Veggies, pleeease do not be "ashamed". There are many many individuals envious of your self control, compassion, and conscientious choice. My family still applauds me to this day, needless to say they're Pro-Veg!

Original Post by gi-jane:

(And only the mentally subnormal minority would give babies fizzy drinks in a bottle - be honest.) 

 I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've never spent much time in the lower southern United States. 

"Condescension ('the uninformed masses'?.. not nice)  and holier than thou rantings are not required."

I'm not trying to imply that I'm holy b/c I don't eat hamburgers.  And flexitarians like, anastaciadancer, get my thumbs up b/c at least they cut down on meat.  I'm not one to go and yell at some one eating a whole foods diet that includes lean meat, hell I don't even yell at people that eat fast food everyday -- but they do get in my face and complain b/c some how my not eating meat offends them.  That ticks me off.  And if I can't rant in the vegetarian forum, then where can I blow off steam? 

If people get 'in your face' about your food choices then maybe you're just hanging out with the wrong sort of people? Personally, I'd rather not spend time with anyone who's nasty to me.... and, for the record, I've never once had a negative reaction when I've ordered a vegetarian meal in a restaurant or made vegetarian food for friends & family.

I find that vegetarian forums (and the same's true in real life, sadly) often do descend into 'I'm better than you because I don't eat X Y or Z' whining and it gets silly. The vegans are superior to the vegetarians, the vegetarians look down on the pescetarians, everyone piteies the poor, uneducated omnivores or gets hysterical about 'rules' such as whether a particular food is technically vegetarian or not .... it's a bizarre state of affairs.  I frequently 'eat' vegetarian but I've opted to not 'be' a vegetarian... too many strings attached.

If you want to rant, rant at the people that are getting 'in your face' - be assertive or all you're doing is blowing hot air and acheiving nothing.

Original Post by amber_poole:

Original Post by gi-jane:

(And only the mentally subnormal minority would give babies fizzy drinks in a bottle - be honest.) 

 I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've never spent much time in the lower southern United States.

I suspected that is where you are when I read your original post. lol. Specially after the fizzy drinks part.

UD

Original Post by gi-jane:

If people get 'in your face' about your food choices then maybe you're just hanging out with the wrong sort of people? Personally, I'd rather not spend time with anyone who's nasty to me.... and, for the record, I've never once had a negative reaction when I've ordered a vegetarian meal in a restaurant or made vegetarian food for friends & family.

I find that vegetarian forums (and the same's true in real life, sadly) often do descend into 'I'm better than you because I don't eat X Y or Z' whining and it gets silly. The vegans are superior to the vegetarians, the vegetarians look down on the pescetarians, everyone piteies the poor, uneducated omnivores or gets hysterical about 'rules' such as whether a particular food is technically vegetarian or not .... it's a bizarre state of affairs.  I frequently 'eat' vegetarian but I've opted to not 'be' a vegetarian... too many strings attached.

If you want to rant, rant at the people that are getting 'in your face' - be assertive or all you're doing is blowing hot air and acheiving nothing.

AMEN! Let people eat what they like!  It's no business of anyone else to judge, demean, belittle, etc. anyone based on what they decide to put in their bodies.  Nor is it polite to push one's own views about diet on others, preaching that yours is "better" or "healthier."

Original Post by umneydurak:

I suspected that is where you are when I read your original post. lol. Specially after the fizzy drinks part.

UD

 Yes, in Arkansas you can go to a resturant and get fried pickles for an starter, then eat fried chicken w/fried corn on the cob and mac n cheese.  And this would be considered a "good" dinner. 

That sort of attitude towards vegetarianism and veganism is terribly misguided, and I dearly hope that it is not something anyone here is exposed to on a day-to-day basis. I cannot say that I have...living in London has happily allowed me to experience a well developed selection of vegetarian and vegan foods, and I find that people here do not question my descision to include such a diet as part of my lifestyle. However, reaction towards vegetarianism and veganism in my country Poland is quite different. Although the society is becoming more diverse and increasingly open to the influence of world cultures, meat is still a very important staple in the Polish diet and refusing it all together can get you many raised eyebrows, especially on the faces of the older generation. Veganism isn't something you can explain in Poland either...for most people, the idea is simply unheard of. However, luckily I haven't come across anyone badgering me over what I put in my body. This is something I deeply appreciate, for I believe the choices in terms of what we eat are personally justified, and outside individuals have no place to judge or bash someone over something what another consumes. Unfortunately, what sometimes bothers me about the vegetarian and vegan communities is this horrible 'holier than thou' take to looking at other people who have different ideas of what constitutes ethical consumption, a proper diet, etc.

This isn't really related to the post, but I LOVE chickpeas!!! Best food ever.

It is frustrating but there is nothing you can do about it but be thankful that you have the knowledge, ability, and information necessary to make informed, healthful dietary choices.

I was raised on that diet of chicken nuggets, pizza, hamburgers, and cookies.  My mom would sometimes crack open a can of corn to give us our "veggies".  It makes me sick to think of the way we used to eat and the way she still does. She wouldn't eat a salad or piece of fruit if it was the last thing on earth.  I still struggle with my weight even though I have been making much better choices for the past several years.  And now my mom has had multiple heart surgeries and is on more medications than she can count - and all as a direct result of the crap she eats.  Her doctor told her she had to change the way she eats and start incorporating fruits and veggies in her diet and cut out or greatly reduce fried foods, red meat and diary.  She left the doctor's office and got a cheeseburger and fries on the way home. 

Unfortunately, there is just no convincing some people...

As an almost vegan ( I still eat a small amount of honey, and I love my local raised organic eggs), who grew up in the middle of farm/ranch country I can totally relate.

I was raised on a very meat (albeit local, grass fed) centric diet. We did have a garden as well, with lots of produce, but my mom also cooked with lard and crisco (who knews trans fats back then), and almost all bread was white.  Desserts were plentiful and I drank a ton of soda as I got older.

Living in ND as a veg, I am in a very small minority. (we actually have a small support group of sorts. I get all kinds of comments, especially from those who think nachos are a great dinner, with soda and put mt Dew in thier kids sippy cups. Even from other wise "healthy people" who do eat lean meat and lots of veggies/fruits.

I usually keep my mouth about my choices and just eat accordingly most people won't notice and will keep thier mouth shut.

I've learned that for a lot of people it isn't just a diet, its a whole lifestyle choice (for me anyway, for health, ethical, and other reasons), but to people who do eat meat its like they suddenly feel a need to defend themselves, like standing in church and announcing you're and athiest (I'm not, just making a point). They get defensive as though you are somehow inuslting them. Its worse here as alot of people's incomes are because of the meat/processed food industry.

Fargo once had a vegan restaurant, but it just couldn't make a go of it.  The only way to really eat out veg (unless you like fatty veg burgers. such as at BK or Denny's) is to either go to a buffet, or to go Ethnic such as Thai, Chinese or East Indian whose cultures have many vegetarians.

I've learned to just live mylife and ignore what I know to be false, and just teach by example rather than argument. 

I'm by far the healthiest member of my family. My moms family is wrot with lung issues, and in my dad's family if you dont' have some sort of cardio issues, you were probably adopted, or like me watching your life style like a hungry hawk on a wounded rabbit.