Realistic Body Image - I am not conforming to society's standards

Sadly there are very few images of black beauty in the media. When you see ethnic beauty it is usually Latina or Asian. Yes we have Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan, and Taraji Henson but they are "slender". On the "plus" side we have Jennifer Hudson and Monique. There aren't many images that spotlight the category in between "slender" and "plus size".

Personally I think Halle Berry, Scarlett Johansson, Kate Beckinsale, Charlize Theron, and many others are beautiful. However, they are all that you see. I cannot aspire to be a slender/skinny woman. It is not gonna happen. Even if I could, I don't want to look like that. 

I posted new pics on my profile of ladies with bodies that I admire. While searching for pics, I saw some posts online regarding Serena Williams in a bikini that made me want to vomit. People calling her a tranny, a monkey, etc. I think her body is fierce and the fact that she still has boobs and a butt is amazing considering how athletic she is. I have seen the same things written about First Lady Michelle Obama. Because she has hips and a butt, many feel that she's fat. Both of these woman workout on a regular basis. I don't believe they could do anything else to have better physiques other than have plastic surgery.

I love Angela Bassett's body. That woman is 50 years old and looks better than most 20 somethings.

All I know is that when I told my fiancee that I wanted to lose some weight the first thing he said was "I don't want a skinny woman so don't overdo it". I am working to be the best "healthy" me that I can be. I am 5' 1" but have never been "petite". I have always had hips and a butt. I am a size 14 now at 184 lbs. At my goal weight of 144 lbs. I am a perfect size 10. I am muscular and curvy. At my best I would look more like Serena Williams or Ki Toy Johnson in a bikini...and I am more than happy to aspire to that.

Original Post by solareclps:

@loriklorik: A family member read our post and thought that I went a bit overboard, so I would like to apologize for calling you racist. I felt your comments were severely disingenuous towards African-Americans and let my emotion run a little high. I do not know you to call you racist and for that I do apologize.

Good luck to you (but please be much more sensitive when talking about other cultures, especially to the people who live it)

Solar Eclipse.....

Wow. That's kind. Some people enjoy taunting others here. I'm not going to name any names,Lol. However: Stirring empty pots amongst us is their game. I wouldn't be so tough on yourself,Solar. :) Even the best of us can be caught by emotion on occasion... Especially when certain members are on one of their tangents.

Original Post by solareclps:

@loriklorik: A family member read our post and thought that I went a bit overboard, so I would like to apologize for calling you racist. I felt your comments were severely disingenuous towards African-Americans and let my emotion run a little high. I do not know you to call you racist and for that I do apologize.

Good luck to you (but please be much more sensitive when talking about other cultures, especially to the people who live it)

Solar Eclipse.....

 Thanks solar :) Dont worry, I dont really take much personally.

but hoprefully Lorik will be more sensitive in the future.

Im about the same sensitivity level on most subjects... its kind of silly to check the room for black people (or whatever you are going to talk about) just to make sure its "safe" to say what you think. Its how I would want others to behave around me. Though, sometimes its hard to approach a subject from a 3rd person view when you are so close to it... its no problem, happens to everyone.

Things are just more interesting when they are guided by removed thought than when they are guided by emotional reactions (things didnt get that heated here, hardly luke warm, but in some subjects the heat can totally break down communication).

Original Post by loriklorik:

Original Post by solareclps:

@loriklorik: A family member read our post and thought that I went a bit overboard, so I would like to apologize for calling you racist. I felt your comments were severely disingenuous towards African-Americans and let my emotion run a little high. I do not know you to call you racist and for that I do apologize.

Good luck to you (but please be much more sensitive when talking about other cultures, especially to the people who live it)

Solar Eclipse.....

 Thanks solar :) Dont worry, I dont really take much personally.

but hoprefully Lorik will be more sensitive in the future.

Im about the same sensitivity level on most subjects... its kind of silly to check the room for black people (or whatever you are going to talk about) just to make sure its "safe" to say what you think. Its how I would want others to behave around me. Though, sometimes its hard to approach a subject from a 3rd person view when you are so close to it... its no problem, happens to everyone.

Things are just more interesting when they are guided by removed thought than when they are guided by emotional reactions (things didnt get that heated here, hardly luke warm, but in some subjects the heat can totally break down communication).

My motto is...speaking your mind is really only a strength if what you say makes people stronger. So to me arguments over forums are usually pointless. And don't usually benefit anyone. It seems like sometimes they are just a way for some many people I have encountered  to say things to people they would never say in real life. Or for some people to show off their 'smarts.' Most of the smart people I know are too busy learning to argue all day on line.  Kinda like the short guy with bad road rage. There is a computer/car between you and the person so it feels safer to vent. Kinda why I avoid forums a lot of times. It annoys me, the way some people talk to me. I can look at their pictures and know that they would act right in person. Lol. And you can get off to a bad start with people you might like in person. Who knows Lorik, me and you mighta hit it off had we met some other way???

When I say you have to be more sensitive to others differnces, I just mean that you have to understand that some people will see things as rude or flaming and saying it becuase it itches you not to isn't always the high road, freedom of speech is great and all but we should all be mature about what we say and how we say it as well. Words are powerful.

Original Post by cellotlhicks:

My motto is...speaking your mind is really only a strength if what you say makes people stronger. So to me arguments over forums are usually pointless. And don't usually benefit anyone.

 I'm not really the same way. I could care less if anyone benefits from what I say (because it doesnt really matter, there are billions just like whoever is reading it....actually, there are billions of others who never want to read / talk / think about it at all....).

It's really for my own benefit (maybe someone will say something interesting that would make me think or change what I believe). I learn a lot from various things online (and have picked up a lot on this site). Im a big believer that open communication is KEY to advancing as a person and as a society.

I look at their pictures and know that they would act right in person.

Your right, in real life I dont speak my mind unless its to people I know (or sometimes during classes). Though, when I'm talking to people I know...I don't really care if people overhear it that have no importance in my life (like at dinner, our table often gets some crazy looks from others when we talk about the insanity of religion and some more extreme trains of thought) People just generally dont want to think about things, they dont want to talk about issues, they are horribly ignorant and are happy that way. Not only that, but they are highly emotional....they are dangerous.

So, yes, if i met you out in the world... i would say hello and shake your hand and conduct whatever business needed to be completed and then move on. I wouldnt want to upset you or anyone around me because that would simply interfere with my ability to opperate my normal life.

But, online, I can say what I really think and I don't really care if you dont like it. Its not that I say it with the goal to make people angry (remember, my goal above is selfish) its just i dont care if you get angry (well, other than to the point where it might impede the conversation on the subject at hand). If someone gets upset, fine, ill just continue bringing forth my viewpoint and arguments in hopes that someone points out whats wrong with it (or supports and strengthens it with other arguments). Basically, i use the site (and some others) as an outlet for my brain to grow.

It annoys me, the way some people talk to me

Thats just it, I'm not talking to you (or anyone) generally. Im talking at you...in your direction...towards the other however many might see what i say. I dont really care who responds, just what they respond with.

I just mean that you have to understand that some people will see things as rude or flaming

Thats fine, I normally see it as their problem :) If someone were to sit up and say "all jewish people are greedy and big nosed"...i wouldnt get mad. I would just ask "why". Either they are mistaken or I am...perhaps with a discussion we can figure out which....getting mad about someones views is just boring o.O

@loriklorik: I am only sorry for calling you racist, that doesn't have a factual basis. Everything else I said on the otherhand (stupid, ignorant, pick a synonym) I mean that very much. Those have factual basis. Your right about this not getting heated, I let my emotion run a little high, you do not want to see me get heated....

I also got my point across (you finally pulled race out of your argument and stuck strictly to history and American culture as a whole). So yea, my tactics are questionable but my results are tangible. Don't go around taunting people you might run into someone who can actually debate under any circumstance!

Oh and uh...I still stick strongly by my statement of you not being able to intellectually debate me. lol you are not ready (dynasty sign) lol

@enchatingimage: Taunting isn't an excuse for making some of the claims he made. Racism is a real thing, keep it out of a "for fun" argument/statement. He doesn't know me or what I've experienced in my life, make a claim along those type of lines can easily bring a past event and take a discussion in the very wrong direction. I'm not saying he shouldn't taunt, but don't use matters that have such a painful legacy. Oh and uh...I'm not coming down on myself at all, as far as I am concerned lorik asked to get hit with fire so I burnt his ass lol. I actually had lots of fun doing it too!

Solar....

Original Post by solareclps:

I also got my point across (you finally pulled race out of your argument and stuck strictly to history and American culture as a whole).

 

Uggg....do you really not understand how cultures work? That there are MANY cultures within America (yes, that includes black)? Umm, ok, think of it like a pizza. You are the crust...and all the toppings are different cultures that affect you. Some are bigger (like the cheese) and others only tint your views (the onion)...Race is typically one of the big factors that affect how people identify themselves (because it is so easily seen and the source of a lot of conflict, so people generally want to pay attention to those more).

I just really dont know how to explain it any simpler ... so.... I hope you understand?

Original Post by loriklorik:

Original Post by solareclps:

@loriklorik: A family member read our post and thought that I went a bit overboard, so I would like to apologize for calling you racist. I felt your comments were severely disingenuous towards African-Americans and let my emotion run a little high. I do not know you to call you racist and for that I do apologize.

Good luck to you (but please be much more sensitive when talking about other cultures, especially to the people who live it)

Solar Eclipse.....

 Thanks solar :) Dont worry, I dont really take much personally.

but hoprefully Lorik will be more sensitive in the future.

Im about the same sensitivity level on most subjects... its kind of silly to check the room for black people (or whatever you are going to talk about) just to make sure its "safe" to say what you think. Its how I would want others to behave around me. Though, sometimes its hard to approach a subject from a 3rd person view when you are so close to it... its no problem, happens to everyone.

Things are just more interesting when they are guided by removed thought than when they are guided by emotional reactions (things didnt get that heated here, hardly luke warm, but in some subjects the heat can totally break down communication).

I could careless whether you are checking the room for anything, because you shouldn't be checking the room you should be checking your statement. You  are homosexual or bisexual (assuming your post and profile are both true) should I walk into a room and start calling people ****? Now if they have a problem with it (even though it's disrespectful) it's on them? Your logic is still extremely arrogant, as you want the world to adjust to you even when you are wrong. Simply put **** YOU! You do not walk into a place say something border line derogatory and then say "well that's not my problem." You are the wrong one there as you started this fire. I really don't think you just ever get truly get burned by it and so you continue to start flames like that.

Every time you start that type of fire be ready to debate me as cordially as we discussed here. I want to add tension to the flame (it's fun!). If I go overboard I'll hand you an eight ounce glass of oil when I'm done frying your ass. Let's see how much we can burn when your arrogance meets my stubbornness.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!

Solar.....

P.S. I never removed thought from my arguments (only seems like you did) and I do not debate from a 3rd person point of view. I will not do it unless I have to. IF i have intimate knowledge of something I use it....  I wonder if you are just as arrogant when you are talking about LGTB people...hmm...now that is an interesting question....

Original Post by loriklorik:

Original Post by solareclps:

I also got my point across (you finally pulled race out of your argument and stuck strictly to history and American culture as a whole).

 

Uggg....do you really not understand how cultures work? That there are MANY cultures within America (yes, that includes black)? Umm, ok, think of it like a pizza. You are the crust...and all the toppings are different cultures that affect you. Some are bigger (like the cheese) and others only tint your views (the onion)...Race is typically one of the big factors that affect how people identify themselves (because it is so easily seen and the source of a lot of conflict, so people generally want to pay attention to those more).

I just really dont know how to explain it any simpler ... so.... I hope you understand?

It's not about not understanding. You are specifically putting it through this lens, then making statements as if you know all about this lens, which can be very wrong at times and derogatory. It's about you not using it in a wrong or derogatory way. Can you understand that?

jblargh: Overweight does NOT equal unhealthy. It's a trend based assumption. People who eat unhealthy things and never exercise have increased health risks. People who eat a healthy diet (even if it maintains an overweight size) and exercise are at NO increased health risk. A women who is a sz 14, eats a healthy diet, exercises, and has a waist circumference less than 35 inches has NO more health risks than her slimmer counterparts. NONE. This whole 'all fat is inherently unhealthy' idea is silly. Not to mention, here on CC, it stands to reason that most of us overweight people are watching what we eat and exercising, so the assumption that overweight=unhealthy in this context becomes even more ridiculous. So there is absolutely no basis to assume that the 'overweight' people on her profile are in any way, shape, or form, unhealthy.

Lorik: I took all those classes to. However, in my classes it was taught that making broad sweeping generalizations based on racial stereotypes was a bad thing. Maybe that was just me. If ridiculing fat people was the answer to the obesity problem, what's up with all us fat white folk? Obesity among white people is on the rise despite its complete lack of social acceptability. Also, I contest that there is any such thing as 'simple' cultural differences. Culture and ideology are insanely complex. While I don't claim to be an expert on african american culture (though if you're criterion is dating a black guy, maybe I should reconsider), in my experience their views on ideal weights and acceptability of obesity is just as varied as white people's. In my experience, the largest difference is that many of the african american women I know don't let their weight define them, so they are more likely to exude confidence at any weight. In the same light, they tend to judge other's personality's less on their weight than white people. I would call that a good thing, since it's also... true. That people shouldn't be judged by their weight, and no real assumptions can be made about one's personality or flaws based on it, I mean.

Original Post by loriklorik:

 I'm not really the same way. I could care less if anyone benefits from what I say (because it doesnt really matter, there are billions just like whoever is reading it....actually, there are billions of others who never want to read / talk / think about it at all....).

Your right, in real life I dont speak my mind unless its to people I know (or sometimes during classes). Though, when I'm talking to people I know...I don't really care if people overhear it that have no importance in my life (like at dinner, our table often gets some crazy looks from others when we talk about the insanity of religion and some more extreme trains of thought) People just generally dont want to think about things, they dont want to talk about issues, they are horribly ignorant and are happy that way. Not only that, but they are highly emotional....they are dangerous.

So, yes, if i met you out in the world... i would say hello and shake your hand and conduct whatever business needed to be completed and then move on. I wouldnt want to upset you or anyone around me because that would simply interfere with my ability to opperate my normal life.

But, online, I can say what I really think and I don't really care if you dont like it. Its not that I say it with the goal to make people angry (remember, my goal above is selfish) its just i dont care if you get angry (well, other than to the point where it might impede the conversation on the subject at hand). If someone gets upset, fine, ill just continue bringing forth my viewpoint and arguments in hopes that someone points out whats wrong with it (or supports and strengthens it with other arguments). Basically, i use the site (and some others) as an outlet for my brain to grow.

It annoys me, the way some people talk to me

Thats just it, I'm not talking to you (or anyone) generally. Im talking at you...in your direction...towards the other however many might see what i say. I dont really care who responds, just what they respond with.

I just mean that you have to understand that some people will see things as rude or flaming

Thats fine, I normally see it as their problem :) If someone were to sit up and say "all jewish people are greedy and big nosed"...i wouldnt get mad. I would just ask "why". Either they are mistaken or I am...perhaps with a discussion we can figure out which....getting mad about someones views is just boring o.O

A few years ago when I worked in DC, I had a co-worker who was from Eritrea (Africa). One day we were on our way to lunch and he made the statement that "Black American women were fat". Having met several people from his country, I had noticed that the women were smaller than even the average White American woman. I at the time was at my goal weight (size 8/10). I started laughing and said "so you are are saying that I am fat?" He was like "oh no, not you". So I asked him "well what is your definition of fat?" He made a gesture with his arms to show what I guess would be a size 20+ woman. I pointed out that most of the Black women that we were passing on the sidewalk at that time were not fat when compared to his standard.  I then told him to not make generalizations.

Lorik - I have not seen one thing in all of your numerous posts that was related to my OP. You haven't given me one fact that I did not already know that was related to my culture and how we view weight. Maybe that is because I am a black woman who has lived and worked around other cultures all of my life. Your not liking culture does not mean that there are not cultural differences. Our pigmentation, hair texture, and body builds are different. How we raise our children, treat our elders, the food that we eat, etc. is all different. I am not going to be "color blind" and ignore the contributions that different cultures bring to the world.

You see other people's views don't bother me. However; you come off as a know it all. You say people in general are ignorant and don't like to think. Is that because they don't share your views? I don't like people that make statements in public (only if they are with a group of others) or online just to get a reaction out of others. These same people when confronted one on one cannot or will not back up what they say. To me that's cowardly. You can have an opinion but don't talk for the sake of talking. Bring something constructive to conversation.

I like the title of your post. Not conforming to society's standards, especially something as personal as our body image, sounds good to me, don't see what ^the problem is really.   pfft

There are somethings we need to conform to, like not burning down your neighbour's house, but there are many things that I think we need to think about, whether it really fits who we are.  And how you identify yourself. If it doesn't fit and it doesn't fulfill you or truly make you happy, discard it, find your own ideals away from the mainstream.

And yes body builds will differ as changeinsc said above, its all to do with genetics. And there are some genetic differences between races & even within races, but we all know this. I'm not talking about eugenic stuff here, so there's no need to start in on that direction.

Lorik - I have not seen one thing in all of your numerous posts that was related to my OP. You haven't given me one fact that I did not already know that was related to my culture and how we view weight. Maybe that is because I am a black woman who has lived and worked around other cultures all of my life. Your not liking culture does not mean that there are not cultural differences. Our pigmentation, hair texture, and body builds are different. How we raise our children, treat our elders, the food that we eat, etc. is all different. I am not going to be "color blind" and ignore the contributions that different cultures bring to the world.

You see other people's views don't bother me. However; you come off as a know it all. You say people in general are ignorant and don't like to think. Is that because they don't share your views? I don't like people that make statements in public (only if they are with a group of others) or online just to get a reaction out of others. These same people when confronted one on one cannot or will not back up what they say. To me that's cowardly. You can have an opinion but don't talk for the sake of talking. Bring something constructive to conversation.

 

 Amen. I was tryign to stop myself from saying the word cowardly, (lol) but it was itching to come out. I do think that the people that can only express how they feel from the safety of a computer screen are a bit cowardly. Either that, or they know that what they are saying is rude or a bit out of line, and would not feel confident to say it to some one were they standding there. I am not scared to do so, becuase I have a genuine respect for people. As such, I am true to my beliefs but have never been in a fight, and altercations are a rareity for me.

Lorik isn't here to add to the discussion, lol. A person who is both ignorant AND arrogant lives in their own bubble. His comments are clearly ignorant and he's stated he makes comments for his own benefit (arrogance). Since he doesn't really want to contribute to the topic on hand let's just continue...

@Change_in_sc:I was watching NOVA ( a science show for anyone who doesn't know) and they interviewed a young woman who became anorexic to model. She started modeling and then her agency told her to lose 15-20 more pounds! She couldn't even fathom the idea of it. She quit modeling and as life would have it she ended up doing plus-size modeling....Now what's interesting here is that at a healthy weight/bmi/body size she is considered a plus-size model.

If society considers you "plus-size" at your healthy weight/BMI then darn it be sexy and plus-size and LOVE IT!!!!! Societal ideals are unrealistic for most women and there doesn't seem to be a trend where models of all shapes, colors, sizes, are equally given their proper respect. Beauty comes in all shapes, color, sizes, heights, everyone just needs to find the fit for them!!

I agree. I am at a healthy BMI and love the way I look when in the 135-140 range. I did a little bit of modeling there once, and did not look like the typical model. I too would refuse to go to an unhealthy weight to be what others considered the correct size on print.

Esther Baxter looks great to me, btw. And the funny thing is, if she had no hips or her breasts were not vluptuous, most people would see her as a pretty normal weight. But those things add to her beauty to me.

I have to say TOCCARA IS **** GORGEOUS!!!! Oh yea she's plus size too (even though she has lost a bunch of weight!!)

Solar...

Original Post by octo-luv:

I like the title of your post. Not conforming to society's standards, especially something as personal as our body image, sounds good to me,

 

don't see what ^the problem is really.   pfft

 Me too.

Me either.

Original Post by solareclps:

 

@enchatingimage: Taunting isn't an excuse for making some of the claims he made. Racism is a real thing, keep it out of a "for fun" argument/statement. He doesn't know me or what I've experienced in my life, make a claim along those type of lines can easily bring a past event and take a discussion in the very wrong direction. I'm not saying he shouldn't taunt, but don't use matters that have such a painful legacy. Oh and uh...I'm not coming down on myself at all, as far as I am concerned lorik asked to get hit with fire so I burnt his ass lol. I actually had lots of fun doing it too!

Solar....

 

Oooh. I never said it was an excuse for behavior by anyone. In either case it's not an excuse,imo. :) I was only trying to clarify so you understood their intention. All right, then. Have fun with that.

Who is "they/their"? I believe lorik was the only other person solar and the OP were arguing with in this thread. 

Original Post by solareclps:

Lorik isn't here to add to the discussion, lol. A person who is both ignorant AND arrogant lives in their own bubble. His comments are clearly ignorant and he's stated he makes comments for his own benefit (arrogance). Since he doesn't really want to contribute to the topic on hand let's just continue...

@Change_in_sc:I was watching NOVA ( a science show for anyone who doesn't know) and they interviewed a young woman who became anorexic to model. She started modeling and then her agency told her to lose 15-20 more pounds! She couldn't even fathom the idea of it. She quit modeling and as life would have it she ended up doing plus-size modeling....Now what's interesting here is that at a healthy weight/bmi/body size she is considered a plus-size model.

If society considers you "plus-size" at your healthy weight/BMI then darn it be sexy and plus-size and LOVE IT!!!!! Societal ideals are unrealistic for most women and there doesn't seem to be a trend where models of all shapes, colors, sizes, are equally given their proper respect. Beauty comes in all shapes, color, sizes, heights, everyone just needs to find the fit for them!!

I accept my body type (and so does my fiancee). I eat healthy and exercise 7 days per week so I can be healthy. Some of those around me see that as overkill but I don't live my life for others. I am from the South so we have some different comfort food down here LOL My current lifestyle allows me to enjoy those foods on special occasions without any negative ramifications. 

I really hoped my OP would help some female on here that is struggling with trying to be something that her body type will not allow. If people don't change their mindset individually then those same unrealistic standards will continue to apply.

Angela Basset, that's true beauty. She has always been beautiful and not an ounce of it has faded over the years! Esther Baxter! All beautiful women in that gallery! I'd like to add a few Kate Dillion, Natalie Laughlin, & Natalie Wakeling.