Realistic Body Image - I am not conforming to society's standards

Sadly there are very few images of black beauty in the media. When you see ethnic beauty it is usually Latina or Asian. Yes we have Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan, and Taraji Henson but they are "slender". On the "plus" side we have Jennifer Hudson and Monique. There aren't many images that spotlight the category in between "slender" and "plus size".

Personally I think Halle Berry, Scarlett Johansson, Kate Beckinsale, Charlize Theron, and many others are beautiful. However, they are all that you see. I cannot aspire to be a slender/skinny woman. It is not gonna happen. Even if I could, I don't want to look like that. 

I posted new pics on my profile of ladies with bodies that I admire. While searching for pics, I saw some posts online regarding Serena Williams in a bikini that made me want to vomit. People calling her a tranny, a monkey, etc. I think her body is fierce and the fact that she still has boobs and a butt is amazing considering how athletic she is. I have seen the same things written about First Lady Michelle Obama. Because she has hips and a butt, many feel that she's fat. Both of these woman workout on a regular basis. I don't believe they could do anything else to have better physiques other than have plastic surgery.

I love Angela Bassett's body. That woman is 50 years old and looks better than most 20 somethings.

All I know is that when I told my fiancee that I wanted to lose some weight the first thing he said was "I don't want a skinny woman so don't overdo it". I am working to be the best "healthy" me that I can be. I am 5' 1" but have never been "petite". I have always had hips and a butt. I am a size 14 now at 184 lbs. At my goal weight of 144 lbs. I am a perfect size 10. I am muscular and curvy. At my best I would look more like Serena Williams or Ki Toy Johnson in a bikini...and I am more than happy to aspire to that.

Original Post by change_in_sc:

I really hoped my OP would help some female on here that is struggling with trying to be something that her body type will not allow. If people don't change their mindset individually then those same unrealistic standards will continue to apply.

There are always tangents that end up in there that distract the readers from the purpose. No worries, Change in SC.  :) This thread is still fantastic and helpful nonetheless,imho. 

Talk about not being able to see the forest from the trees...lol

It seems my arguments are largely met with "bla bla, dont generalize people" and "everyone is an individual! we are unique snowflakes!" and...thats not really true (sorry).

Lorik: I took all those classes to. However, in my classes it was taught that making broad sweeping generalizations based on racial stereotypes was a bad thing.

had you continued onto statistics (or really any management / marketing classes) you would see its not really true...and that there are a lot of racial factors that are generally true in different areas (for example, in hispanic areas, you would cut the meat thinner in grocery stores because they generally use it in that way for their dishes...OMG! Racist!!...or....just statistics and cultural facts?....) Haha, its kind of like calling insurance companies racist for crunching numbers on different factors of people.

It seems I'm just talking to walls (at least, if its in my voice)...so...here

Someone else

a quote "Cultural factors seem to influence accepted beauty standards and the drive to achieve a certain weight. These factors also may be a reason why more black women are obese. Black women do not perceive themselves as overweight and obese and are less likely to be thought of as overweight or obese by their society."

There are plenty more resources out there on the same subject (and even books!) ....maybe you really dont know your own culture as well as you thought?

Original Post by minda_spk:

jblargh: A women who is a sz 14, eats a healthy diet, exercises, and has a waist circumference less than 35 inches has NO more health risks than her slimmer counterparts.

I thought you had to have a waist circumference of less than 30 inches to be considered healthy?? Is it really 35?

Original Post by loriklorik:

Talk about not being able to see the forest from the trees...lol

It seems my arguments are largely met with "bla bla, dont generalize people" and "everyone is an individual! we are unique snowflakes!" and...thats not really true (sorry).

Lorik: I took all those classes to. However, in my classes it was taught that making broad sweeping generalizations based on racial stereotypes was a bad thing.

had you continued onto statistics (or really any management / marketing classes) you would see its not really true...and that there are a lot of racial factors that are generally true in different areas (for example, in hispanic areas, you would cut the meat thinner in grocery stores because they generally use it in that way for their dishes...OMG! Racist!!...or....just statistics and cultural facts?....) Haha, its kind of like calling insurance companies racist for crunching numbers on different factors of people.

It seems I'm just talking to walls (at least, if its in my voice)...so...here

Someone else

a quote "Cultural factors seem to influence accepted beauty standards and the drive to achieve a certain weight. These factors also may be a reason why more black women are obese. Black women do not perceive themselves as overweight and obese and are less likely to be thought of as overweight or obese by their society."

There are plenty more resources out there on the same subject (and even books!) ....maybe you really dont know your own culture as well as you thought?

Lorik, you didn't get the memo? Everyone else has gotten back on topic.

Original Post by cellotlhicks:

Lorik, you didn't get the memo? Everyone else has gotten back on topic.

 Oh, just didn't want people walking away with mis-information about the subject :) I thought an actual doctor who specializes in this field of research would be a little more effective in getting through everyones defensive behaviour (oh, and I wanted to gloat a little *gloats*).

Original Post by cellotlhicks:

Original Post by loriklorik:

Lorik, you didn't get the memo? Everyone else has gotten back on topic.

Ignore him, he's not here to add more to the topic that's substantive. His ignorance serves him well, but it's useless to the topic. It's a simple matter to explain why his comment doesn't hold up, but he's not worth passing understanding on to. Get some wisdom kiddo then maybe you'll actually learn something...

Wanted to add more beautiful women to those pictures she has up: Sophie Dahl, Fluvia Lacerda, and Whitney Thompson!

Solar...

My mom was one of the 3 fattest kids (she was actualy just pretty chubby) in her middle school. This was a while back, before obesity skyrocketed and it was much less accepted. She tells me that things were a little less extreme back then. They did not have a lot of plus size, nor were there as many size 0's as they are now. Looking throuh her high school year book, many of the women looked like size 6's and 8's. I wish that was what was idealized now. I have met so many girls who would freak out at being over a size 2. The OP mentioned that as well, how you don't see a lot of those women who are 'in between'. Good examples for women who want to be healthy w/o being skinny or really thin. I dunno, maybe the extra 10 lbs the camera adds makes them no longer 'ideal' in societies eyes, and they are not quite large enough for plus size either.

Original Post by cellotlhicks:

My mom was one of the 3 fattest kids (she was actualy just pretty chubby) in her middle school. This was a while back, before obesity skyrocketed and it was much less accepted. She tells me that things were a little less extreme back then. They did not have a lot of plus size, nor were there as many size 0's as they are now. Looking throuh her high school year book, many of the women looked like size 6's and 8's. I wish that was what was idealized now. I have met so many girls who would freak out at being over a size 2. The OP mentioned that as well, how you don't see a lot of those women who are 'in between'. Good examples for women who want to be healthy w/o being skinny or really thin. I dunno, maybe the extra 10 lbs the camera adds makes them no longer 'ideal' in societies eyes, and they are not quite large enough for plus size either.

I was really overweight as a kid and no one cut me slack! I teased about being fat all the time. That didnt stop till I got to high school gained a few inches and started lifting weight big time!

Yea it's amazing who is "model material" and who isn't! I think all those women are beautiful and yet some how many, many people would consider them too big or "they can stand to lose a few pounds" size. I wonder when skinny will become too skinny even for fashion, media, and advertising.

Original Post by loriklorik:

had you continued onto statistics (or really any management / marketing classes) you would see its not really true...and that there are a lot of racial factors that are generally true in different areas (for example, in hispanic areas, you would cut the meat thinner in grocery stores because they generally use it in that way for their dishes...OMG! Racist!!...or....just statistics and cultural facts?....) Haha, its kind of like calling insurance companies racist for crunching numbers on different factors of people

 Honey, I am statistical goddess. I have taken the statistics, the soc, the psyc, the phil. Missed most of the marketing/management, though if that's where you learning about race, I am disturbed.

So let's gloat!
My research (which has won awards) on 'The effects of race and body-image on perceptions of attractiveness' showed no racial difference in body image. One has been found before, but recent research is showing that difference minimizing and disappearing.

Yes, statistically african american women are more likely to be overweight, and some research shows that being overweight is less stigmatized in the african american community. However, assuming that one causes the other is a classic statistically ignorant mistake. For one, your opinion seems to ignore SES. If it included SES, you would find that there is quite a bit of research that shows that the weight differences are more of economic concern than a racial one.

 A 2002 study published in the (peer-reviewed)Health Care for Women International found that "regardless of ethnic descent, all [women studied] reported congruence between real and ideal body size. In addition no differences were found in self-esteem."  And get this, because I can quote too, "Based on the outcomes of our research, we suggest that socioeconomic differences could be more important than ethnic background"

Original Post by jcl76:

Original Post by minda_spk:

jblargh: A women who is a sz 14, eats a healthy diet, exercises, and has a waist circumference less than 35 inches has NO more health risks than her slimmer counterparts.

I thought you had to have a waist circumference of less than 30 inches to be considered healthy?? Is it really 35?

 The National Heart Lung and Blood Institute suggests 88cm (34.6 inches). There are recommendations of 80 cm (31 inches), but some studies are finding lots of healthy people above that, so in reference to health risks, 35 inches is the more common measure used.

You know, there is a lot of negativity about underweight on this thread, and I am finding it pretty hypocritical.  I honestly do not see the difference between underweight and overweight; they are both just as bad.  It has been said multiple times that you can be overweight and healthy.  Well, you can be underweight and healthy as well.  I see no difference between idolizing Queen Latifah versus idolizing Keira Knightley.

Yup, socioeconomic reasons is also a very possible contributor (and probably even helps shape the culture)... its really not something where you can point at soley one issue as being the cause.

But, the fact remains...that black culture is more accepting of weight and ideal body images are towards larger women (even though the differences are weakening, that doesnt mean its not still there...its simply the culture evolving. No doubt in 50 year we will see even more evening out of the cultures as we continue to mingle).

Thats all I'm saying. I'm not trying to go into every reason why people are overweight and every cultures attitudes towards it (along with all the more complicated interactions between cultures and their effects on eachother). But, even that simple of a statement seemed to be too "racist" for a lot of people to understand (and to claim that line of thinking is ignorant just shows blatant lack of education on that and the surrounding subjects).

Basically, we are on the same page... (its just the others who dont seem grasp the subject)

((oh, and yes, marketing and management both have lots to say about differing cultures...its one of the main focuses actually, you cant market or manage people unless you take into consideration their basis *culture*))

@Minda: All the number crunching is great! Sounds like some people are changing their tune. I would think it's pretty stupid to claim culture is main cause of obesity anywhere (which some said was). People see Esther Baxter and think "she's overweight", when in reality she isn't. The perception of what is overweight and what isn't is radically different (Which is common knowledge, the reason is that black people have bigger bones, so usually even at the same weight as our counterparts our bodies will still look bigger). So African-American women tend to be at the higher end of the BMI, but when someone is clearly overweight they get no mercy. That's common knowledge as well...but meh, wisdom isn't popular anymore, so why waste the knowledge?

Adding more pictures to the list......

Charlotte Coyle, Valerie Lefkowitz, and Babara Brickner.....

Original Post by huggitbear:

You know, there is a lot of negativity about underweight on this thread, and I am finding it pretty hypocritical.  I honestly do not see the difference between underweight and overweight; they are both just as bad.  It has been said multiple times that you can be overweight and healthy.  Well, you can be underweight and healthy as well.  I see no difference between idolizing Queen Latifah versus idolizing Keira Knightley.

Who is idolizing Queen Latifah? I think you might have misread the OP. The purpose is not to come down on underweight people...we are discussing how there are not a lot of women in media who are healthy and on the higher side of the BMI scale....it's not a critique of thin women....the OP wants to aspire to a realistic body image not be negative about smaller women.

Original Post by cellotlhicks:

Who is idolizing Queen Latifah? 

what, no one told me??? i just finished building my shrine for her, oh well, guess i can tear that down. 

Original Post by loriklorik:

Yup, socioeconomic reasons is also a very possible contributor (and probably even helps shape the culture)... its really not something where you can point at soley one issue as being the cause.

But, the fact remains...that black culture is more accepting of weight and ideal body images are towards larger women (even though the differences are weakening, that doesnt mean its not still there...its simply the culture evolving. No doubt in 50 year we will see even more evening out of the cultures as we continue to mingle).

Thats all I'm saying. I'm not trying to go into every reason why people are overweight and every cultures attitudes towards it (along with all the more complicated interactions between cultures and their effects on eachother). But, even that simple of a statement seemed to be too "racist" for a lot of people to understand (and to claim that line of thinking is ignorant just shows blatant lack of education on that and the surrounding subjects).

Basically, we are on the same page... (its just the others who dont seem grasp the subject)

((oh, and yes, marketing and management both have lots to say about differing cultures...its one of the main focuses actually, you cant market or manage people unless you take into consideration their basis *culture*))

Lorik -  You have nothing to gloat about other than being pompous. If the OP was about racial/cutural differences when it comes to obesity then your discussion would be warrented. Again with all of your stats and facts you are still not telling the black people on here anything that we don't already know about our culture. So who are you trying to "educate?"

To sum all of this up:

OP =  I know that I will never be as thin as the images of women that I see in mainstream media. I accept my body type and strive to be as healthy as possible.

Lorik = Black people are more accepting of obesity. Race and socioeconomic factors along with that acceptance are why more black women are obese.

What was the point? I was not advocating obesity. As I have stated before, I work out 7 days a week and watch what I eat fanatically. I could keep that up for years and still not be a size 4. The funny thing is when I told my white friends my goal weight, they were all like "are you sure? that seems a little small for you." I guess they accept obesity now?

huggitbear My topic was about being healthy at whatever weight that you are. I could not be underweight unless I starved myself. Just like others do not apologize for finding larger women unattractice, I do not apologize for not wanting to be an underweight woman; healthy or not.

I understood that all when I read it the first time. I think certain people need to go back and read the OP again. Some people just skim over the posts and type a response before they really understand what you are saying. (or b4 they understand what they are saying) I am in complete agreement with Minda_speaks. There are people on here w/ a way worse body image than her, that are only 10 lbs overweight. I have a lot of respect for her views, and agree with them all.

Original Post by octo-luv:

Original Post by cellotlhicks:

Who is idolizing Queen Latifah? 

what, no one told me??? i just finished building my shrine for her, oh well, guess i can tear that down. 

ROFL...LOVE THIS!!!!!!!

Original Post by solareclps:

Original Post by octo-luv:

Original Post by cellotlhicks:

Who is idolizing Queen Latifah? 

what, no one told me??? i just finished building my shrine for her, oh well, guess i can tear that down. 

ROFL...LOVE THIS!!!!!!!

 Yeah well it felt a little stiff in here. Anyway I don't see why certain people are getting all the attention , no one else has bothered to respond to my posts except the first one. ***goes off & pouts***

The original discussion was awesome.  I want more.