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Recovery Days and Overtraining
I just wanted to say that after six weeks, I can't emphasize enough how amazing the results have been for me after starting my first program implementing recovery days.
For the past three years, I've tailored my lifting and cardio to my work schedule--I work three days, then have three days off. I was doing a sort of bizarre split 3-day program centered around that, which isolated muscle groups as much as possible, and due to work considerations, involved me doing cardio on days one and two of the program, taking day three off from cardio and just lifting, then starting over. This meant I was working out seven days a week. A lot of this had to do with me, when I first started this journey, being impatient for results and deciding that the best way to get there quick is to go nuts and hit it hit it hit it every SINGLE day.
Now I'm not going to say I didn't get halfway decent results, especially in weight loss--60 pounds over about two years--but the lean and ripped look, while fine, was basically all I could seem to obtain--I was having a heck of a time getting much muscle mass, I was tired ALL the time, I began to have joint and tendon pain.
Six weeks ago, I started a Mon-Fri program. Two workouts, head to toe splits. My routine is Monday Tuesday lift, Wednesday no lift, Thursday Friday lift, weekends off. I do cardio on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday only.
My biggest fear about taking days off was that I'd lose ground during those days and either gain fat back or weaken on my lifts. Boy was I wrong. I'm climbing in weight on nearly every exercise after a long plateau, I'm regularly getting 8+ hours of sleep for the first time in years, my workouts are more productive than ever, and I can't believe how much better I feel overall. More energy, stronger, quicker, just outstanding.
On top of that, my cardio is now every other day--that seems to really be harnessing the effects of HIIT, which is supposed to kickstart your metabolism and give you something like 39 hours of calorie burn after you do it, so I'm seeing tons of new defintion. Finally, what's most important to me, as a FFB, is that the only weight I'm gaining is what I'm TRYING to gain, which appears to be muscle. Feels weird to be heavier than I was a month ago, yet my pants fit looser in the waist than they did then. The weight gain also is something I'm having to actually WORK at for the first time ever--I'm having to pull in 3000+ calories a day to do it. I NEVER thought I'd have to actually TRY to gain weight. Daddy like. 
Many of you here already know this, I'm sure, but I'd heard it talked about all over the net for a long time, and I've even had people here tell me that I was overtraining and actually being counterproductive. My rookie weight lifting brain just refused to believe it for a long time, and I thought now that I've turned the corner I'd give recognition to the two who originally suggested it to me and got me thinking about it--Caloriecountingme and Melkor. Thanks you two.
So--if you're new to weightlifting, take it from someone who really HAS learned the hard way after three years--take recovery days on a regular basis. It seems backwards, but taking rest days will help you get in the shape you want to be in faster than working out every day. Best move I've ever made, and if you're impatient (like I am) to see results, those break days will get you there faster than hitting it each day.
Good LORD I'm long-winded. Guess the cardio IS helping. 
Latah
PistolPete, that's fantastic! Thanks for sharing your update - I remember reading your original post and the thread along with it. It's exciting when things that feel good for us really are good for our health and fitness!
Pistol pete! Congrats! My bf is always telling me I overtrain (amenorrhea has him all tripped out.. lmao; where as I think of it as a sign that I'm kickin' butt). Anyhow I know all about your battle with not wanting to quit... I hate my one day off a week... I struggle to stay idle. In fact I still go to the gym, lol, I just nuke it in the sauna for 30-45 mins.
What do you think of this routine? (I change my routine every 50 days and this is the new one beginning Monday) should I incorporate another rest day?? I feel like one day is hard enough to manage. I also get criticized on my cals (I take in about 1200-1250 or so daily; but I burn less since I weigh less right??) but I was thinking I'd test the theory and bump it to 1350-1400 for the next 50 days... and also what is considered light or heavy lifting??? I lift the heaviest weight I can but it's not body building... it's only the heaviest I can go and I'm not that strong. So do I calculate it as heavy lifting or light? I am sweating a ton when I do lift bc of the high weight...
Here's the schedule, please advise:
Mon – Legs-
10 mins weighted Jump roping (morning)
Front legs lifts @ 90-110lbs (10x3)
Lunges with 40lb barbell (10x3)
Side Lunges with 15lb dumbbells (10x3)
That slant squat machine @ 50lbs+bar 10x4.
A2G Squats @ 50-65lbs + bar 12x3
Sumo Squats @ 20lbs 10x4
Seated squat @ 90-130lbs (move up each rep) 10x4.
Rear leg lifts (the single leg machine) @ 20lbs 12x3.
Seated rear leg curls @ 60-90lbs 10x3.
Rear leg curls 70-110lbs 10x3.
Straight-leg dead lifts @ 60lbs 10x3
Calf raises, 130lbs, 40x3.
Tue- 60 minute Body Step Class & Sauna
Wed- Back, Bicepts, Abs –
Bicycle (100)
Vertical Leg Crunches (100)
Ball Crunches (100)
Leg Throws (25)
Captain’s Chair (50)
Medicine Ball Crunches on incline (25)
Shoulder Hammer w/ free weights @ 17lbs 20x3.
Lats machine @ 45lbs 10x3
Rowing machine @ 45lbs 10x3
Individual Rowing machine @ 30lbs 10x3
Assisted Chin Ups 10x3
Lower back machine @ 130lbs 10x3
Lower back crunches w/ 10lb medicine ball. 25x3
Bar pull down, 45lbs, 10x3.
Bicept Curls @ 17lbs 20x3 (10 per arm)
Isolated Bicept Curl (elbow to knee) @ 17lbs 20x3 (10 per arm).
Bicept-Chin Curl @ 30lbs 10x3
Dumbell Curl @ 30lbs 10x3
Thurs - 60 min Spin class & Sauna
Fri - Chest/Tri/Shoulders –
Dumbells fly's @ 17.5lbs 12x3,
Slanted Bench Press @ 45lbs 12x3.
Seated bench press @ 60lbs 12x3.
Fly machine you can use for chest or back, 50lbs, 12x3.
Exercises with free weights (ranging between 10-15lbs dumbells) which I don't know the names for but it's all shoulders with a couple of tricept moves; all 20x3 (10 for ea arm/shoulder).
Tricept machines (one you push down while sitting, the other your straddling this seat, and your arms are on a padded cushion and your pushing forward and down this handle bar) 60lbs @ 10x4.
Then lastly I do this "tucking" motion with a long bar w/ dumbells on each end (30lbs) where you tuck the bar to your chin area and it isolates your shoulders.
Sat - Running 5 miles (needs to be kept at 6.5-8.5 mph with sprints)
Sun - Eat, Sleep, Tan.
Little Malynda-
IMHO you have way too many exercises per day. It does sound like you are overtraining.
My advice is: Why don't you try focusing on more compound movements, where you can add significant weight over time?
In all honesty you don't need to be doing more than 4 or 5 exercises per workout, given that they are utilizing large groups of muscles.
For your leg day, how about trying a routine that uses something simple like:
Squats 4x6-6
Roman deadlifts 4x6-8
Lunges or split-squats 4x6-8
Calf raises 3x8-10
Otherwise you might just be overtraining. Less moves, more compounds, less reps, heavier weight, more sets. That's my advice. Are you using free weights? Your whole workout should get you in and out of the gym in around an hour to an hour and a half, max. If you are lifting for more than, say, 45 min at a time it's sorta over kill.
:)
hmm ok, on my average day I do take about 90 mins weight lifting if I'm not lolly gagging... (which I usually forget about time when resting or get caught up talking and it's 2 hours long). Maybe I will try to cut some stuff out and just narrow it down. Mainly the areas in legs I need work on is my upper thighs and my glutes... so yeah I think mainly a bunch of squats/lunges like you said would be best.
Any tips on how to get more tone on your lower quads? Mine are "fatless" but they don't look strong to me... :/ Kinda just look normal and I try to work 'em a lot.
Original Post by littlemalynda:
Any tips on how to get more tone on your lower quads? Mine are "fatless" but they don't look strong to me... :/ Kinda just look normal and I try to work 'em a lot.
sissy squats.
So yeah, just read your post this morning, Malynda. That's a huge routine.
My current one has a total of 9 exercises a day, and lasts almost exactly 60 minutes. I'm wasted by the time I'm done with them.
As far as what's lifting heavy vs. light? I don't know for sure, but I've always subscribed to the rule that if you're doing 3x12 reps with a weight, you're strength training. If you're doing 4x5 to 4x8 reps with heavier weight, that's mass building stuff. I kind of adhere to that. So if I do 3 sets of twelve reps or so, I've worked out. If I do 4 sets of 5 to 8 reps before I wear out, I call that "lifting heavy".
If it was me, since you asked, I'd nuke the Tuesday body step class, move your Wednesday workout to Tuesday, and make Wednesday a break day or something along those lines. That way you could take Sunday and Wednesday off. Just something to think about. Rest is good, that much I know.
I honestly don't know how you find the time to work out that much anyway. I have the wife and kids plus a full time job and I can barely get the 90 minutes or so a day I need. Do you train for a profession? Like me, the only reason I work out is my work. It's a deterrent. Saves me a lot of trouble.
You're a ninja, aren't you. Be honest
Original Post by pistolpete21:
So yeah, just read your post this morning, Malynda. That's a huge routine.
You're a ninja, aren't you. Be honest
lmao! no, no ninja here! lol... funny thing though, I was working at an art & wine festival for my work (work at a credit union). So since at every festival we work with the same vendors I decided to hang out with the fitness booth nextdoor and ask some questions. I was inquiring about body fat % testing and rmr testing bc I have never done it and I was curious. The guy says "well right off the bat I can tell you you are probably somewhere in the 16% range" LMAO! I thought "holy cow!!! lol, no way am I anywhere lower than 18-19%". So we keep talking and well he gave me an ego boost and refered me to do some test in the city that's within 1/10 of a percent of accuracy... measure precise body areas apparently so I would know the breakdown of body fat in parts (even though you can't "spot train" I still like the idea). Anyhow kinda funny bc the guy asked if I ever considered fitness modeling... I laughed.. lmao.
Anyhow, I only work out for (what my goal is 60 mins) but it turns into 90-120 mins per weight lifting day, and on my cardio days it's 70-80 mins (depending if I have time for sauna). I'm not married, no kids, no real crazy lifestyle so I just work and gym and then hang with the bf for a couple hours before bedtime... lol, so I don't really do much. Plus school takes up time.
Funny you should say I should take an extra day off... the guy at the fitness training thing said I looks a little too muscular and said "ya know when women loose too much fat they can lose their period, don't know if you know that" I laughed and told him, "aw hun, I haven't really had it in a year, I'm used to it being gone" to which he replies "well I think you probably need some rest days... you look really muscular for a woman and I can tell you don't take anything so you probably are in an overtraining cycle". lol... so I think you are right. I think I might start taking it a little easier. 'Specially since I just started this whol gym thing in Nov 2007, I have stayed the same weight but lost 22.5 inches... I think I really must have gained a lot of muscle mass. Sometimes it's hard to really come to reality of it though ya know? Ever get the "I don't want to stop no matter what anyone says" mode? hrmph. Well I suppose I have nothing to loose by resting. lol.
Thanks Pete & Soy!
hi malynda. what was the fitness exhibitor that does body fat testing? I'd like to go get tested and would love to find someplace nearby. I'm in menlo park and somebody exhibiting in san carlos (that was the festival, right) can't be too far away.
Second that. Overtraining is a problem because it leads to chronic fatigue that takes a very long time to recover from. Losing your period is a problem because the hormone imbalance that causes periods to stop can also lead to osteoporosis, heart problems, and other health problems.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark3.htm
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/PlannedOv ertraining.html
The are real problems. Having visible muscles is only a problem in that trainer's mind.
lol right? Ok the guy was the owner of Optimal Fitness Lifestyle Center in San Carlos. He recommended a place called "Body Composition Center" in Redwood City, it's $49 and it's called a Dexa or DXA machine. Apparantly while it is the most accurate body fat testing available they say it's one of those machines that is so accurate you need to have your fat% tested at least every 4 months or so just to keep up with your progress because it breaks down the highest areas of body fat for you as well (i.e. 10% from your belly, 2% arms, etc). with some report or something.
I have had overtraining before though, in the beginning it took it all out of me, but I just did the whole "Mind over matter" thing and said screw it and pushed past it. I just had lame workouts for like 2 months. :/
Alevin, if you are close to the SJ Gold's Gym there is a hydrostatic testing guy coming out there on Oct 14th (I think that's the day but you'll have to call). He also does RMR testing too. I was thinking of getting that tested to compare the results as well.
Thanks! Redwood city is close for me, I'll look into that. It would be just perfect to test in, say, October and February.
Yeesh. Taking a light week seems easier and better than having 2 months of lame workouts plus increasing the risk of osteoporosis and heart problems.
pistolpete21, you know i'm thrilled to hear that you're admitting to seeing better results by doing less. it's bec in the end, you're body's not doing less--it's accomplishing more.
but can't accomplish more w/o rest. strength training's not about working MOSTEST or LONGEST or CONSTANTEST or HARDEST; it's about working smartest. this is also true for life in general.
so many times, you see ppl spending a lot of time in the gym, but many of their exercises could be completely eliminated w/o any difference in the results you see. and that's true for anyone. you get results when you do the work, and most of the lifts ppl do aren't demanding enough on the muscle strength/growth end of things. i would suggest either a general strength program or a complicated one from melkor's page on the fitness forum, but one that challenges you--if you're doing a leg exercise, you should almost definitely be standing up. if machines are involved in more than half your workout, your routine needs revision. some ppl (ie, me) are anti-machine. but certainly no one would advise so much machine use; it's too isolating, and machines baby you by doing all the work.
you rest so that you can kick booty the next time you attack the iron. glad to hear you're a noble warrior out there, pistolpete21.
