Relationship Advice Needed- I'm lost

Relationship threads seem to be abundant these days, maybe it's in the air, but I am in some serious need of advice. I am under a different screen name than usual as well just for security purposes...

Some background...I am a 22yo/f. I have been dating my SO for about 6 years (will be in October). We started dating when I was 16 and he was 17. We have had our ups and downs that's for sure...but we always seem to work our way through. We also have kids together. They are twin girls who are almost 2 years old. It wasn't planned, and I was on birth control so it was a big surprise when we found that out!  We had been together for 4 years at that point and had been living together for 2, so we had no doubt in our minds that we were ready for it. The first year was quite a struggle, he had never cared for a baby before and was very overwhelmed and although I had experience with babies, I was overwhelmed as well as there were two of them! But, we made it through and everything has been going smoothly...well kinda...

So here's where you guys come in. I will try to be as clear as possible but please be patient with me, I am a little upset so my mind is all over the place. 

I have been realizing more and more lately how very little my SO does to help out around the house. I am willing to do a little more of the work, considering he has a 9-5er, Mon-Fri and I only work serving tables 3-4 nights a week. But, it's a little ridiculous. He leaves the house every morning around 7 am so I am on my own from the time the twins get up, until he gets home around 6 pm. During the day I do all the things mommy's do with the kids and I also make time to do laundry and dishes, and make the house clean so he doesn't have to come home to a dirty house. I have no problem doing this as long I am shown some respect and appreciation for doing so..but that is not the case. 

He gets home EVERY evening and throws his clothes on a chair, on the floor...anywhere but the laundry hamper or hanging them up. If I leave it there instead of cleaning it, the clothes just keep piling up every day. Same with dishes. It doesn't matter if the dishwasher is empty, he will just leave his dishes in the sink for me to put away. He also hasn't done a single load of laundry in so long that I can't even remember when the last time was. And if he does, he will leave it in the dryer and just keep picking clothes out of it. We have a cat as well who he doesn't help clean up after. Then when it comes to the twins it's even worse! I take care of them ALL day EVERY day, and as much as I love them, mommy needs a break too! But do I get one, NO! He gets home, changes his clothes and plops down on the couch with his computer, phone, or plays video games. He sits there on his arse while I feed both of my girls dinner, play with them, and do the bedtime routine. All he does is get up to say goodnight to them. And you'd think maybe on the weekends, when he is home, he would do a little more. Nope! He sleeps in while I get up and do the morning routine and I change EVERY diaper, and do all the work, all day. He does sit down to play with them, but if he smells a dirty diaper he hands them right off to me. And if I ask him to do it, he gives me some kind of stupid excuse like "well I was about to get in the shower" or "I need to make a phone call" or "I was about to start dinner" or "I need to send an email"....ANYTHING to get out of changing a diaper that would take a couple of minutes at most. Honestly, I could keep going on and on for quite some time so I'll stop there...I think you get the picture. 

So you'd think it would be as easy as sitting down and having a talk. But, you guessed it, it's not! I brought up the subject last night only to have it blow up in my face. This didn't happen overnight, I have been feeling very unappreciated and unloved for some time now. The reason I hadn't brought it up until now was because I was afraid of the very reaction that I got. Before I could even get a full thought out he exploded with anger (he has a HORRIBLE temper) and started throwing cuss words and literally telling me to shut up! I wouldn't because I needed to get this out, it has been bottled up and it was coming out whether he wanted to hear it or not! Meanwhile I was crying, but talking very calmly otherwise. In the midst of his yelling and cussing I also begged him not to yell, and asked him why it was so easy for him to disrespect me that way. No matter how angry I am, I never yell profanities or tell him to shut up. He just kept on going though. Eventually I went to leave and take a drive...and only then did he stop me and finally let me talk. But, that's all that happened, I talked. He stared at his computer screen while I poured my heart out. And when I was done he said nothing exept "are you done?" I felt completely helpless at that point. How else am I supposed to get through to him? If I can't just flat out communicate it to him, what am I supposed to do?

So, I decided to leave anyway because I just couldn't be around him, I needed to let myself cry and think. I was gone for almost an hour and then came back home. He was still very pissed off. I appologized only for upsetting him, but let him know that I meant what I said, and I will not appologize for it. I told him that something NEEDS to change or it will only get worse. He just stormed off and got in bed. I said nothing else and just got in bed as well. He then decided he was too mad to lay next to me and proceeded to go sleep on the couch. Of course I followed to try and console him...I don't know why I do that...he didn't need to be consoled...I am the one that is being hurt and he plays victim. 

Anyway, fast forward to this morning. He left around 7 am about 2 hours ago to run some errands. He was still very pissed off at me and told me he didn't even know why we were fighting..that really upset me! I feel like my efforts were futile! 

Ahhhh...I am just rambling I am so upset. I just needed to vent, but I really don't know where to go form here. He will not go to counseling...and it's not an option anyway with our financial situation. I can't talk to him either..so what can I do? As far as chores go...he hates a dirty house...so I will leave his dishes and his clothes and things for him to clean but all that happens is that it piles up over days and days of not picking up, and he complains about it being dirty until I do it. He will complain for days and not do anything about it. I have let our bedroom get so bad that you cant see the floor and dishes are piling up on his desk...but NOTHING!

Any advice or kind words would be helpful right now. I have no one to turn to, no friends, no understanding family, no one...I feel very alone.

I'm so sorry to hear things are tense in your house.  I don't have a lot to say, except that I wanted to recommend this book I read about relationships that kind of changed my entire perspective.  There are so many stories in this book just like yours, and just as many solutions:

http://www.amazon.com/Real-Love-Marriage-Find ing-Happiness/dp/159240250X

you can see there are a lot of really cheap used ones.

Anyway, the gist of it is about the mechanisms we use to feel loved in replacement of the real thing.  The fact is, there's nothing you can do to change your husband unless he wants to.  But you shouldn't hold that against him.  If you've properly and calmly explained that his behavior makes you feel like he does not love you, then the best thing you can do is offer him unconditional love. It's obvious by his behavior that he's feeling a little empty on real love too (and he can't give what he doesn't have).  Don't hold it over his head like you're the saint.  But ask if you can hire a babysitter one night a week to get out of the house, and be with other women (friends).  Sometimes the best perseverance comes from the support of having good friends.  If he seems pensive at the idea, tell him it's to help the relationship between you two.  Tell him you love him and want to take care of him and your babies, but you need time to recharge.  Hopefully he will understand.  I know this seems like you're the one forced to change when you're right, but in the end, if you could make a change that enables both of you to be truly happy, wouldn't that be better than deciding you can't live with him anymore?

Anyway, there are lots of great methods for working on both yours and your husband's heart in this book, and I highly recommend it.

From what I can make out I am the same age as him.

It maybe that he hasn't lived on his own long enough to understand what reponsibility is. I mean I was the same when I was with my parents but living the last 4 years on my own going through University just gets you into a routine and very used to cleaning up.

It seems like hes just had someone always there to clean up after him from his parents and now you. It must be really hard with someone you love especially but from his reaction it doesn't seem like anything will change and it will get into a rutt where you do everything and have an argument over it from time to time. Just stick to your guns and keep telling him although if I was in a similar situation I would just start throwing all of his stuff out he doesn't clean up and if he didn't like it...tough.

The whole 9-5 job really is not an excuse. My mother was away a lot studying when I grew up and my dad had a 9-5 job alternating with nights each week and managed to pick both me and my sister up, cook for us, clean and then look after my mother even on weekends.

In this sort of situation if you let him keep doing it, it will become partly your fault for letting him get away with it in the first place and then it will just turn sour untill something drastic happens.

I really can feel for you but under no circumstances should you let him keep getting away with it. If it annoys him and makes him angry...tough **** because he should be pulling his weight.

wow...my head is spinning just reading this. seems that you have NO respect from him at all. and that is what is boils down to. respect for each other. BUT first you need respect for yourself. it seems he has no respect for himself. you also lack respect for yourself, by accepting his behavior.

i also see in him a very selfish person. his needs come first. :"i need this " I need that" with no concern for his wife and family. oh wait, do I see that you guys got married after all this time??? that is your first mistake, not making your commitments legal. in essence all the time spent and moneys spent will not be divided if anything happens. Too bad, but too late I assume. but the good point is you are not married and its easier to just walk away, OR ask him to leave. which I doubt would happen. You could just sit and talk about separation. and give the concrete reasons behind your choice to separate. THE KIDS. they are getting a bad deal with a father like that.

You also need to stop feeling like a victim and take your power back. if you ever had any power.

if he wont go to counseling , or speak to a mediator to help you guys out. I believe through social security or your state, you could get low cost assistance. your local church also should offer some sort of counseling, if NOT for the both of you, then YOU get counseling alone. there are women just like you out there, and you need to hook up with a good support group.

if this was me, which it wouldnt be, cause I would have seen his lack of maturity and lack of respect much earlier before moving in and getting pregnant and  by this stage I would have been long gone. yes, you have kids, but those kids are going to grow up with a skewed view of "married life" and what is normal. (for a man to disrespect his wife, his kids and himself) ..if you have family or friends great, get support from them if not, try to get support from your local social security office on how to get help for you and the kids. NO one needs to live the way you describe and guess what? it will ONLY get worse the older you both become. He  has very low self esteem and then so will you. you will think you deserve this loser for a husband and set yourself up as a victim. YOU are not a victim, you can take charge of your life and you should. those kids depend on both of you, and maybe some time away ie; a separation, he will notice that he was a jerk and needs to mature.

not sure if this helps, cause again, I have never been in your shoes, nor would i ever let my life to get into that situation. but there you are and you have to make some wise choices for yourself but especially for the kids. you need to become strong for yourself and the kids. They can't speak for themselves but I assure you, they know just what is going on and will eventually think its their fault for the way "dad" acts towards the family.

Good luck..and best wishes that you get the help you AND your children need. He will get his help when he is ready to acknowledge his faults. face it, hes a loser.

Tricia

  You've been with the man for six years, you've had children for two years and, if you didn't agree the groundrules at the time, he's made such a habit out of being boorish that you've tacitly accepted it.  That's the trouble when people get together as children.... some mature as they get older, others stay stuck as the selfish kid they always were. 

He treats you this way because he's pretty certain that you will always capitulate. 

You could work on him... starting with small instructions like 'from now on please put your clothes in the laundry basket rather than on the floor' and working up from there.  But because he sounds so violent and uncooperative I think you have to honestly ask yourself, is he worth the effort?  

BTW... next time you leave, take the children with you and don't come back.  Your daughters, if they are brought up in a household where 'Mummy' is no better than a little servant and 'Daddy' is a bully, will struggle with exactly the same problem when they are in a relationship. 

Sounds to me like you need to find a baby sitter, get a job, and learn to be a grown up.  If the boy friend doesn't learn to be a grown up too, you're gonna need that job, because single mothers usually always wind up caring for their children alone.  Sue him for child support and let him  visit the children without you being there.

Problem solved.

Wow - you guys started out so young!  I got married at 20, but didn't have kids until I was 28 - you have a LOT on your plate!

As far as advice - Be sure to pick a time when he is feeling calm, and you can discuss it without getting emotional.  Outbursts tend to come off as a bit like a tantrum, and generally don't get results.  And even declaring your feelings may feel like accusations - an attack - to him, especially if he is a bit immature (sounds like he is).  Little steps at a time might be the thing to do, and make sure you are asking for concrete things, not emotional ones. 

For example, instead of saying, "I don't feel appreciated,"  say instead, "It would really help me a lot if you would put the clothes in the hamper when you take them off."  Instead of saying, "You never help out with the kids," say, "I really need some time to relax, could you play with the kids for half an hour while I take a bath?"

This is not an impossible relationship at this point, I don't think, but it is going to take a lot of work from BOTH of you to get things to where it will last.  If he's not going to work for it, it won't work.  As others have recommended, a good counselor sounds like an excellent idea.  And be sure you are making a plan B, so you can take good care of those kiddoes should the worst happen.

(And kudos for doing all that you have done - I cannot manage to keep my own house clean, and mine are 3 & 5!)

Don't waste your time.  Leave now, with your children and file for divorce and custody.  Before you leave, document everything he's done and not done.  You are being abused whether you know it or not.

I wish I'd taken that advice when I was in a similar situtation.  Instead I let it drag on, trying and trying to fix it, with disastrous results that wrecked my life and ruined my health.

Be smart and go.

First of all following him around the house trying to prove to him that you are right and he is wrong is just as childish as his behaviour.
Make your point and get on with it, don't follow him around and beat a dead horse.
I did just what you are did and it just doesn't work, it gives him all of the power and strips you of all self respect.

Try giving him a choice.  Start off small.  Something like
You can either give the kids a bath or read them a bedtime story.  Your choice.
You can either change the diaper or you can throw out the garbage when I am done with it.
You can pick up your clothes off of the floor or you can make the bed.

Hell even compromise. 
He throws in a load of laundry and puts it in the dryer and you take it out and fold it.

It seems so simple, but it works, well it works on a ten year old boy.  When I ask my grandson to do something he usually ignores me.  When I give him a choice he picks what he wants to do. 

You need to learn some skill to cope with things as well as stand your ground.  You have two little ones and they are learning all of the time.  Right now they are learning how to manipulate their mother.  Don't let them learn that skill. 

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this everyone..it is very much appreciated...

lihouston- I read the first couple of pages that were available for that book and I am already planning to buy it! It sounds like something right up my ally and makes so much sense. Thank you so much for recommending it. 

j20gu3- I really appreciate your response. It's nice to see what a guys perspective is of all this. I think you're right about there always being someone to clean up after him. He used to leave his dishes outside his bedroom door for his mom to pick up and when we moved out I took over that role. And thanks for calling me out as well...it really is partly my fault for letting it happen. If I had made it understood that I wasn't a maid beforehand..maybe things would be different. I guess I can't go back though and I'm going to have to do something else to turn this around. 

triciae- As much as I didn't like to hear a lot of the stuff you said in your post, a lot of it makes sense and you're right, I need to take charge, quit feeling sorry for myself and DO something. Getting out of the relationship is not what I want though. We rarely fight and things like this just come about ever so often and I feel like a lot of what I said can be worked on...I posted here because that's where I am stuck...I dont know HOW to work on it or WHERE to start. 

gijane- I lurk on these forums a lot and you are always so kind and give great advice. I will start with smaller instructions and see if that helps. I have been a little too vague...asking for appreciation and such. And to answer your question, he is worth it. He has admitted the need to work on his temper and he HAS become more patient throughout our relationship...it still just needs a lot of work. As much as I hate his temper, I can understand why he has it when I look at his past and childhood family life. 

qaowk- Im not planning on leaving him just yet. I know I said a bunch of negative things in my post, I was upset. However, there are positives to our relationship as well. I am willing to at least try, if anything, for the sake of my children. 

puh8suwrux- I did kind of pick a bad time to bring this up. I had just got home from work and he was in the midst of putting the kiddos to bed. As soon as I walked in the door he handed the reigns over to me to finish the job and I just had to come out with it. I am very level headed though and didn't yell and attack him. But you're right...he probably felt attacked anyway because the conversation was all about him and what he doesn't do for me. You hit the nail on the head with what I said...and what I should say instead. I will definitely work on that. It makes sense to be clear about exactly what I need/want him to do.

clairelaine- I will not leave now only because this is one fight. We haven't had many before it and this particular subject has not been brought up before either. I feel like I should at least try and make things better..for the sake of my children. I also love him very much and I KNOW he loves me. We really just need to learn some better communication skills.

Again, thank you sooo much to everyone who has replied. All of your advice was very helpful. It's good to see the situation from different perspectives. I think the hardest part for me in this is that I have no one to turn to. My mom decided after 6 months of dating a man online that she is going to move to the other side of the country to be with him and leave tomorrow. That relationship is really sour right now. I have 2 younger sisters that are too young to understand the dinamic of this relationship and I have no friends. It's nice to know that I have my fellow CCer's to turn to. 

If anyone else has some advice for me...I'd be happy to hear it. 

spoiled_candy- Your first paragraph says a lot to me. You are completely right, I needed to make my point and get on with it. I did drag it out a bit too long. It's hard not to sometimes when you're overcome with emotion I guess. I will try giving choices. I guess it makes sense, that way he's got to choose one or the other, and can't really choose not to do anything. I will keep that in mind. And your last few sentences scared me a little I must admit. I honestly was so wrapped up in this that I didn't think of what I was teaching my children who are like little sponges right now. I will work hard to start standing my ground. That is a problem with me. I am insecure and have a need to feel loved. May have to do with never getting love from my father as a child. But I need to confront it and grow up a little as hard as it might be.

Sounds like you could also really use this book.

Your options are:

-go on strike (except for child care of course) until your demands are met, and ignore his complaints in the exact same way that he ignores yours. Yes, this means a fight, and probably lots of them. Remain calm as he rages, steel your emotions, resist manipulation and low tactics, stating your case for equality in a reasonable fashion - just because you have breasts does not mean the housework is automatically your job. If he raises a hand to you, leave immediately and forever.

-leave

-capitulate, nothing changes, and your daughters grow up thinking this submission and domestic slavery is a woman's place in the world.

I would say simply getting up and leaving is a bad idea... it will leave you in a very difficult possition (financially, if nothing else).

Try to work it out (which, honestly doesn't seem too likely... unless you feel like being his maid / servant for the rest of your life).... but ALSO start planning for if things go bad. One idea, get further education (have you finished college?) so you are able to get a decent job if you need to.

Also, starting to set aside money is a good idea (I don't think you are married, so it isn't an issue of you will get half or anything like that). Get your finances in order so if things do go bad, you aren't left with nothing and nowhere to go.

Right now, it seems like he does not respect you at all. It sounds like he completely dismisses you and what you think (and you are only 22! ..this is just the very tip). Sounds like he is the boss and you just accept it for the most part (out of fear of how he will react, as you said).

Basically, you have a life beyond HIM...

Hey guys, remember she has been happy up until now.  Some women enjoy raising a family and taking care of the house.  The root of the issue is that she feels unappreciated.  And overworked.  Everyone needs a vacation (and love), even those that have careers in offices.  It's obvious she can't be appreciated because her husband is completely caught up in how unhappy he feels he can't see the good around him.  So he lashes out, accepting a momentary feeling of power in place of real love.  I think the problems here are more of the psychological nature than of the oppressed female variety.  You're free to do whatever you want...is what you want a happy family and a loving relationship?  Then yes, change something.  But realize that the only thing you have control over is your own behavior.  In the end it will have to be your decision to work on it, accept it, or leave.

Of course, if violence enters the picture, this is all secondary.  You shouldn't be around that ever.

yay real love in marriage ;)

Original Post by lihouston:

  I think the problems here are more of the psychological nature than of the oppressed female variety.

 I would suggest the same to a man also. I just don't see the reason to stay in relationships where the other party is so obviously inconsiderate of her feelings. I mean, once or twice ...yea it happens... but she says she expected the same response no matter when she would have brought it up (which means, it isn't just a bad day).

Call me old fashioned... but I think your partner should care about your feelings. *shrug*

trustwomen- (i LOVE your screen name btw) I have tried going on strike to no avail. I can't live in a trash heap. I mentioned earlier that when I last did this, my bedroom was so filthy that i couldnt see the floor and there were dishes stacked on his desk and the connecting bathroom was a disgusting WRECK...I let him complain for over a week before I finally cleaned it...I wasnt so much giving in as I was cleaning it for my sanity..I just can't live in that filth! And he has never and would never raise a hand to me. He has a temper but its all words, no aggression. And also like I said, Im not ready to leave. I feel like there is a right time for everything..and if/when it is time to leave I want to feel like I have done everything I can to salvage the relationship and wont look back in regret. 

loriklorik- I lurk on these forums frequently and have always loved your posts. You seem to ruffle everyone's feathers a bit, but I think you always have the most rational responses. I agree, leaving right now would be an aweful idea. I do have SOME money saved up, but not enough to secure a place for me and my children or to afford a sitter/nanny to care for them while I work. I do want to try and work it out..and I feel like there is hope. I don't feel like I will forever be his maid/servant, I just need a better way of getting the help I need from him without getting a negative response. And you are also right about him not caring much about my feelings, its true. I tend to give him a little slack on this though because he just doesnt know how to deal with emotions, he was taught to supress them and wants me to do the same. I was taught to express them. I really liked your response..thank you! PS I completely agree with you in your thread about the politics behind the Sept. 11th tragedy. It's just aweful!

lihouston- I feel like you know me! You seem to know exactly how I am feeling. "The root of the issue is that she feels unappreciated. And overworked" EXACTLY. You really have the same view I have on life in that you make your own happiness. I seem to forget this when it comes to my love life, thank you for reminding me to look inside.

Original Post by ilovetwins:

 I do want to try and work it out..and I feel like there is hope.

 You know what they say, hope for the best...but prepare for the worst.

Not saying it is all gloom and doom though, just was going by what you had in the post :P Talking about things is always the first step (not just about the housecleaning, but also might want to talk to him about how you discuss things if other problems pop up... when he is calmed down, he will probably agree that you should be able to talk to him about issues without being yelled at).

Original Post by ilovetwins:

trustwomen- (i LOVE your screen name btw) I have tried going on strike to no avail. I can't live in a trash heap. I mentioned earlier that when I last did this, my bedroom was so filthy that i couldnt see the floor and there were dishes stacked on his desk and the connecting bathroom was a disgusting WRECK...I let him complain for over a week before I finally cleaned it...I wasnt so much giving in as I was cleaning it for my sanity..I just can't live in that filth!

 Sorry to hear about your situation, and I'll just toss in a few bits.  The "going on strike" idea is just being passive aggressive.  Instead of just letting it sit there and listening to him complain, ask him to please pick it up.  Be polite but firm.  Don't yell or complain back, that just makes it a fight.

It sounds like he has had these bad habits for years, and you have let them continue.  Don't expect behaviour to change overnight.  It will take time and you being firm too.

Work with him and make a plan to divide up chores, so he can see what you do, and what you are asking of him.  Hope the suggestions help some...

After being married for many years to a man who can really blow up, I came to a realization that the "temper" was actually a way to control people.  It is nothing more that a temper tantrum like you would see a child throw.  It is done for the same reason.  If a child yells and screams and finds this gets people to let him have his way, there is not reason he should ever stop.  And at 45, he will still be doing it.  Once I realized that, I decided that I was not going to let fear of the inevitable fight stop me from talking about things that really bother me.  He can rage.  He isn't going to hit me.  When he gets mad, I treat him like the child he is acting like.  I can't send him to his room like I did with my children, so I just walk out, tune him out, whatever.  The discussion is over until he can start acting like a rational human being.  BUT IT IS NOT OVER.  I just bring it up again the next day.  The trick is to not be intimidated and DO NOT APOLOGIZE FOR HIS BAD BEHAVIOR.

You are going to have a real fight on your hands if you really want to change things.  I suspect you are going to have to walk out to get his attention.  He has every right to expect you to do the lion's share of the work around the house, but you have the right to ask for some consideration and help.  Try not to do it in an nagging or attacking manner.  Ask nicely.  Don't let him bully you.

Sending hugs and good luck thoughts your way! I know how hard it can be to resolve things when two people have such different communication styles (and that's putting it VERY mildly). If he wants to be a considerate, caring partner and father, I'm sure there will be something that gets through to him.  If he doesn't, then you're way better off apart.