Religion!

OK, so in another topic, religion came up.  So what are your beliefs, opinions, thoughts, confusions, questions? And of course keep it civil, don't judge or bash, if you think something is offensive, stick "in my opinion" in front, so you can't get in poo.

Original Post by jblarghp:

I definitely feel that scientific fact and logic should be a priority over what (I feel ) is more of a myth. This is why I think that the theory of evolution should be taken more seriously, intelligence shouldn't be hindered because of religion (that's one of my pet peeves!). I think people's religions should evolve with the times and take into consideration new knowledge that we have obtained.

I'm about logic and proof. If something has absolutely no proof to back it up, and something else has over 200 years of proof to back it up, I'm going to at least lean towards the second.

 You do know that the composition of most of the universe is unknown, right? Only 5% of the universe is constituted as matter, and understood by scientists and astronomers alike. 95% of the universe is deemed dark matter and dark energy. Even if 100% of that 5% of the universe is understood as scientifically resolute, that still leaves 95% of the universe to consider.

You say that you believe what can be proved, but why put all your faith in the minority of a proven 5%, when there's 95% unable to be explained and defined further than 'definitely something, but no one knows what'.

To base your beliefs regarding not only religion, but science as well, on an understanding of only 5% of the universe is just about the most illogical and unscientific approach possible.

^ Go back and read my first post. You have to take what I'm saying in the right context or it will sound wrong.

You really have to read my other posts to make a judgement, I have a feeling you didn't.

I'm bit of an anti-feminist, so I'll leave the whole women in the Bible thing alone.

I don't claim to have ever read the Bible much less studied it.  I do find religion fascinating, but I think it's more of a curious stand point.  I don't understand how people can devote their lives to a God they don't know exists.  Why give up so much for something unknown.  Believing in evolution, you don't lose anything, you can still debotch and sleep in on sundays and all that good stuff.  Yes it is a therory, but in my eyes, it's a pretty sound one.  Even to this day people are still evolving, maybe not at a overly noticable rate but we are.  800 years ago people did not live nearly as long as we did, and they were a lot shorter. 

You can live a good life without believing in one all powerful being.  Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean I'm going to hate my mother and father or covet my neighbour.  I will still remain faithful to my husband, but until then, I'm going to look around for one that I want to spend my life with, and to that that, I feel it necessary to sleep with him before marrying him.  That does not make me immoral or a bad person. It makes me human. 

God does not control my actions, if I wanted to, (and could afford to) I would have stayed in bed and not come to work.  I did not get up for God.  I got up because I'm psychologically predispositioned to do so when my alarm goes off in the morning.

I think is having Christian faith is good; if you can believe in all the things that are said, more power to yah.  I cannot, however, stand when people are so gung-ho for God that they insist on trying to change my ways (not accussing anyone here of that).  I have had people in my life ask me if I have found my savour the Lord.  I say no, and then they go off thinking that if they blab enough I'll simply change my mind decide they are right, throw all my beliefs out the window and follow them to church.  If Christians aren't willing to listen to and believe what I say why should I do it for them. 

If when I die, and there is a God, I will freely and gladly admit I am wrong and ask for forgivness.  If the druids were right, then I live my next life reflective on how I lived this one.  If there is no one, my body will be burned, my ashes spread and my soul...well I don't know.  That's were my beliefs get confused, even to me.  I believe we have, not exactly a soul, but something in us, that makes us who we are.  If that is what a soul is, ok I have a soul, but there still, in my eyes, is no God. 

Dinosaurs in the book of Job.

You have to be smoking something very potent if you believe that reference proves the existence of dinosaurs in the bible.

Original Post by fortius:

Dinosaurs in the book of Job.

You have to be smoking something very potent if you believe that reference proves the existence of dinosaurs in the bible.

 Well said! And that and the fact that Dinosaurs were around 250 MILLION years ago, and if I'm not mistaken the bible doesn't start quite that far back!

Original Post by azirra:

Since my previous examples of transition fossils were dismissed, how about the flu virus? okay, so technically not an "animal"...but still a great example of evolution at work.

The reason we get a new strain of the flu every winter is that it mutates. So you get the flu and build up antibodies to beat it, then the flu mutates (evolves) to a new strain, so when you catch it next year your antibodies no longer work. The flu is constantly changing and we can physically watch its RNA sequence change right before our very eyes. We can see exactly where the "parent" strain mutated to create the new strain. To me, actually watching evolution happen in a test tube is more compelling evidence than any skeletal remains anyone could dig up. Although those are compelling too.  (Okay Ill shut up now.)

Very very interesting.

Original Post by swamp_rat:

I'm bit of an anti-feminist, so I'll leave the whole women in the Bible thing alone.

do you vote?  have a job?  have credit cards and bank accounts in your own name?  do you believe in equal pay for equal work? 

if you answer "yes" to any of the above, i suggest you stop calling yourself an anti-feminist.

Yes to all those BUT I also think that women should not be put in positions of high power (especially military/combat roles), I think that women should cater to their man, make them dinner, clean, that kinda stuff, and that we should be the less dominant, "weaker" sex.  That is why I said "a bit" of an anti-feminist, and frankly when I hear women whine about equal rights and all that, it for some reason annoys me.  I by all means am very happy that they did it so I can have rights and a job and all that, but I think enough is enough, put on a bra do your job and take care of your man.

*I am now preparing myself for a blast of ***** 

I don't believe in murder, adultery, and stealing, but I'm not a Christian. No need to align yourself with a group if you share some of their values.

Your post makes me incredibly sad. I can't believe a woman of this day and age believes that...

edit: @ swamp_rat: no, i'm not going to argue your right to to subjugate yourself to the will and welfare of men; that's your choice.  i don't like that you think i should do the same, but you're entitled to your beliefs.

but if you're going to enjoy the benefit of the work of all the feminists that paved the way, maybe you shouldn't call yourself "anti-feminist". 

Ali, I think yours is the calmest reaction I have ever gotten.

I don't feel I am subjuagting myself. It makes me very happy to take care of my guy.  It's not all men I "bow down" to, just mine. 

 So maybe I'm not "anti-feminist" in all senses, but I'm sure there are a lot of women/feminist that think I'm out of my mind to "subjugate" myself to men.

Edit to add:  I didn't mean to suggest that all women should "pu on a bra...and take care of their man".  I meant that as my opinon, sorry for the confusion after reading it over I see how it reads.

swamp_rat, again, your choices are yours.  but your statements about what other women "should" do are offensive to me and to a lot of women. 

maybe in the future when you exercise the rights that feminists won for you (voting, education, renting an apartment, owning property, travelling alone, etc. etc.) you can give a thought to the fact that those rights are hard-won, and if your world view was dominant, you wouldn't have any of them.

As I stated in my previous post I am grateful for the rights I have.  And I also apologized for the way my previous statement read, it is not that I believe that all women "should" act like mans puppet, I realize my views are "skewed" even my guy think so. 

It was not my intention to offend anyone with my views of feminism.  I don't by any means think that all men are worth catering too either, and would never suggest that anybody should subject themselves to catering to someone to please the other person more than themselves (not sure if that makes sense).

My views are old-fashioned an unevolved, I'm sure I would have made some man in the 30's very happy.  But it's not as though I think women are bad wives/girlfriends whatever if they don't bow down to thier husband, it's just for me personally, I prefer to be the less dominant one in a relationship.  I enjoy making my boyfirend a wholesome dinner after I get home from work and getting him his beer while he relaxes.  He take care of my needs just not the same ones.  I'm not afraid that he will leave me if I don't act as I do, I know he loves me and this is just one of the many ways I show him that I care for him...that and he can't cook worth ****.

Again I apologize if I have offended you, that was not my intention.

so, is it possible that you're not "anti-feminist" at all?

words have power, swamp_rat.  you want to be careful what kind of labels you put on yourself and on others.

I don't have a problem with those women who choose to be the "weaker sex' or what-have-you. It's just the Bible has some very strict rules that just don't work.

For example, Divorce is a sin..it's against god. If you couple that with the whole "submit" idea. That means that my mother would have had to stay in an abusive relationship, unable to drive or have a job...in order to please God.

Honestly I just think the views are very old-fashioned and just dont work. If her divorcing my abusive father is reason enough to go to hell, well...I don't think thats a God I want to know anyway....

Understood, I'll try to come up with a different way of summing it up.

Getting back on topic...something that has always confused me about religion;  why are there so many forms of Christianity? they all seem to have the same basic "rules" but are still quite different.  catholics go to confession Protestants don't, but they believe in the same god right?  I could be sounding completely idiotic right now just never really got the whole denomination thing.

Swamp, its nice that you enjoy taking care of your man, no one can flame you for that. I hope he feels the same way about pampering you. It is 100% possible to cook, clean, wear a bra, take care of your man and still be a feminist...or at least not be an anti-feminist. 

"Feminism" conjures images in my mind of women marching for the right to vote and fighting for the right to own property. Those are pretty basic, indisputable rights.

The whole bra-burning, man-hating stereotype was cooked up to discredit the movement in the 60s, but it really is about legal rights, not how you should treat your guy...in fact someone on another thread had a link disputing that the bra burning incident ever happened.

Pg is great at making new friends.

Feminism

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Must be more anti-feminists than once assessed. haha..

Anyways, I looked up proving evolution on Google and a lot fo the links I got back were from Christian sites. Apparently they are ready for the programming. "It's just a theory... blah blah...it's so wrong.."

This link is interesting, but not from a scholarly source.