RIP Dr. Tiller

I really don't have the words to describe what I'm feeling right now that won't get censored.  I've been fearing that this might start to happen again. 

For anyone on here who might work at a clinic: please be alert, review any safety procedures you have, and stay safe.

Reading that, if all of it is true, it sounds like the city of Wichita and the FBI could be sued by Dr. Tiller's family?  Not that anything can bring him back...

Frank Shaeffer: How I (and other "Pro-life" leaders) contributed to Dr. Tiller's Murder.

 You don't need to pull the trigger to shape an environment conductive to violence. People are of course free to say what they want - but they shouldn't act all surprised when their words have the predictable effect of someone putting them into practice.

the whole united states is conducive to violence, melkor

i don't like bill o'reilly any more than you do.  he's a pompous idiot-face douchebag.  if his show were on a broadcast network instead of cable, you could argue that his program does not serve the public interest and therefore the station's FCC license should be revoked.  but on cable, you don't have to serve the public interest (it's debatable whether broadcast stations do anymore)

to blame bill o'reilly for the actions of Roeder is similar to blaming heavy metal music for kids committing suicide

Roeder's mental state will be evaluated so that he can stand trial and take responsibility for what he has done.  That is what ought to happen under our system of justice.

Did you actually read the article Melkor posted? 

Frank Shaeffer: How I (and other "Pro-life" leaders) contributed to Dr. Tiller's Murder.

It has some very good food for thought. After reading this article I would like to read his book.

which was, perhaps, the goal?

i do think that article will make a lot of liberals go out and buy that book (or get it from their library)

and accepting him at his word, I agree that he contributed to the zealotry that finds a home within the pro-life movement

Is there a statute that addresses how to penalize people for being zealots?

we helped create the climate that made this murder likely to happen

Is there a statute that address how to penalize people for creating climates that make murders likely to happen?  Would that include the makers of guns?  Would that include city councils that don't clean up the bad parts of town?

It's good if some pro-life people read that article and engage in some self-reflection.  If they feel guilty, that is theirs to deal with. 

But it's not appropriate, imo, to remove personal responsibility, total personal responsibility from Roeder.  He made his own decisions about what to read, who to listen to, and what actions he would take.  And he is the one who must  pay the price for it.

To find any legal culpability for bill o'reilly or any other pro-life leader is to create a new class of crimes in which ideas or concepts are illegal and therefore censored, and their expression punishable by law. 

Given that the political pendulum swings back and forth, I don't think we want to go there.

 The constitution even protects a white bigot. Judge Sotomayor.

I personally am not removing the blame or responsibility from Roeder for his crimes. It was his choice to become a zealot. It was his choice to become involved in hate. It was his choice to pick up a gun and assassinate someone. I am also not advocating trying to prosecute Bill O'Reilly (although in my head I would enjoy seeing a lawyer drag him through an expensive lawsuit, just a fantasy kind of thing).

What I would like to happen is for the court of public opinion to turn against Bill O and his ilk. I'd like to see the zealots begin to consider their actions and words. I highly doubt that will happen in any large numbers.

Dunno. Even my right wing conservative boss is getting tired of all the hate-talk.

my best friend's right-wing, conservative, retired-policeman husband voted for Obama. 

so y'know... ya never know.

Scott Roeder warns of more violence.

"I know there are many other similar events planned around the country as long as abortion remains legal," Roeder said.