serious thoughts/true weightloss

hi,

i have a friend who came to me today with a conversation that through me about a 30 miles per hour into the chair behind me could anyone help or clarify with me what she said means or even if it is true.

she said to me that she has been to her doctor and that he has told her that he wouldnt advice her eating less than 1000 cals per day because she will go into starvation mode keeping all her fat stored and all that,now i have heard that before that wasnt the problem,she then went on to tell me excitedly(annoyingly from my eyes)that she knows a way round this,she said that if she eats 600-700 then she will beat the body and all the "starvation mode" thingy because she will have gone so much under that her body will have no choice but to lose weight and not hang on to her bad parts.

this FREAKED me out majorly has my friend gone under major brain surgery since i last spoke to her or is what she is saying to me over and over in every phone call true.i dont no what to think and i am so confused it is making me quite angry for some reason,probs because i am so confused and dont no what to think or waht to tell her,because i no what i have been told, what i have read and stuff but then she goes and comes up with this,I JUST DONT NO.

thanks for any thing anyone can give me on this subject would be greatly appreciated and may stop me going mad lol.

thanks agian.

OK, your friend's doctor is correct. If she eats under 1,000 calories a day, she's lining herself up to failure, unless she's going to keep pushing herself and eating less. Women should, in general, be eating no less than their BMR, the number of calories they'd burn if they sat around in bed and did nothing all day. Less than that, and your body will slow your metabolism down by destorying your muscle and some of your internal organs from indoor.
And the worst part.. the KILLER is.. once she's lost what weight she wants to lose, she's screwed up her metabolism and if she tries to eat normally, she'll gain FAT again.

Read about starvation diets. That should help give you the information you need.

I'm sorry about your friend. She's right, she will lose weight by eating 600 to 700 calories. But she will be starving herself. It is not so important about whether or not she will gain weight when she actually eats -- it's important what will happen to her body by starving herself.  Maybe you can help educate her.

What will happen is that she will lose weight for about a week then the starvation mode as you call it kicks in and then she's in real trouble if she ever starts eating normaly again. What happens when you go into starvation mode is the bodys motablism will just slow to a point where if you do eat it will store it naturally to keep you from starving in the future.

so would she not lose weight at 800-900 like she would at the lower point because to me thats still pretty low too.

i told her this and she said to me that ho can anorexics eat so little then and they dont go into starvation mode they still lose weight.

i dont no whether this was right but i told her that is such a seriotype,and that anorexics have days where they feel able to manage more and some days they dont,and that some can eat a "normal"amount in  a day,or even binge purge and stuff,i dont no whether this was the right thing to say either but i no many gals and boys with ed's and they can go from eating a correct amount to nothing,so i told her this.

she got quit angry at me at this point and told me that i was just jealous that she was the one that was going to lose all the weight.when i told her maybe you could start slowly and eat a little something because her vital organs are at stake here like even stat at 900 or something,she said she wouldnt lose weight then and that she was no anorexic wannabe so she dint care waht they did anyway,and that she was going to lose it this way and that it would work.

at this point i told her i had to go and left the conversation.

will her matabolism ever go back to normal if she carries on this way then goes back,or is she just screwed?

its hard to no what to say because i no she doesnt have an ed or any of the symtoms in the mind kind of way,but eating this little it can get addictive and i no the longer she does it the harder it will be to add just a alittle something never mind get back to normal.i am worried about her.

thanks again for your replies.

First of all, your friend is wrong, they DO go into starvation mode. They can lose weight because they're willing to do whatever it TAKES to lose weight. Eat less, burn more through exercise, etc.. and it DEVASTATES their body from the inside out.

And, no, you and your friend are wrong. Once your metabolism DOES slow down, you can no longer eat a "normal" amount of food without gaining fat, because your metabolism has slowed down. That's what starvation mode is. They can binge and purge, and that's no good either, obviously.

Her metabolism WILL get back to normal if she goes this route, but it could take months.

Let me point you to a useful website, it's somethingfishy.com. It might help you get the tools you need to help your friend. :)

Your friend is in dangerous territory. She's very lucky to have you as a friend.

I promise that what Hk is saying is true.

I am proof that this kind of dieting does not work.  It is the worst form of short-term, quick fix thinking. This sort of deeply restrictive caloric intake leads to yo-yoing up and down, until you are left with a metabolic nightmare.

I promise.

I promise too.

{{nomo}}

My understanding - and please  correct me if I am mistaken - is one of the reasons that 1200 calories/day seems to be the accepted 'minimum' is that that is the amount of calories your body needs to function - all the systems, organs, etc - correctly and efficiently.  So if you go below that 1200 calories, then you are taking away from what your body needs to basically function.  This is why they say your body goes into starvation mode, and that if you go on an extreme low-calorie diet (under 1200 calories/day) you won't lose fat, you will lose muscle.  If your friend goes on a 700-800 calories/day diet, not only will she be setting up her body for starvation mode, and messing up her metabolism BIG TIME, she is also setting up her body to not function properly and she can actually affect her physical health in a detrimental manner.  She will start to notice she is tired more often - even for simple things - she will be sick more often, or more severely (because the body won't have the proper nutrition to fight off infections)... the list goes on and on. 

First and foremost, I have to ask - especially with all the recent threads about people who really don't need to lose weight, thin teenage girls who are normal weighted and feel 'obese' and so on -- is your friend really overweight?  Is she really in need of shedding some pounds, or is this is a case of she is really fine/ok and has a somewhat distorted view of herself based on pressures from society?  The fact that you said she called it "her bad parts" makes me wonder.  Other than that, you never stated it (her real need to lose weight or not) in your post, so I am only asking.

I think it is admirable that you want to find out the correct information for her, and for yourself.  It shows that you are questioning the information she was given, and it also shows that you care about her - and yourself - to clear up any misconceptions about dieting, losing weight, and proper nutrition.

Keep up the good work! 

Some comments.

1200 is an average, it's based on, I think, a 5'2" 19 year old girl. What you need is personal to YOU and you can determine that when you determine your BMR, your basal metabolism rate, what you would burn if you sat around in bed all day doing nothing.

Now, you're right, she will be sick. She'll be weak, listless and sick. She'll be more prone to injuries, which is going to be hard if your friend is physically active.

That is what is great about this site it shows you what your body needs to run "like gas for a car" And keeps you in check if you over fill one day I have tryed all kinds of fad diets ect ect None work its all a yo yo  the only real way to do it is eat smart and right and exersize the pounds will come off and stay off with consistancy

OK, then I am curious, if the 1200 is an 'average', then why do most diet places, centers - even this site - tell you that it's unhealthy to go under 1200 calories/day?  I thought it was because that, if you go under the 1200 calories/day, you are taking away from what your body requires to basically function properly, and puts it into starvation mode?  What if someones age, height (etc) puts them under 1200 calories/day for their BMR?  See following links (first one is from another CC thread):

http://www.calorie-count.com/forums/post/9938 .html
(see posts by member ix)

http://www.dmt123.com/diet-fitness/79-1-dmt12 3.html
(see last paragraph/section)

also found:
"Most plans don't recommend going under 1,200 calories, and the amount of calories you get each day is based on your weight. As a general rule of thumb, for women weighing 150 and below, 1,200 calories are recommended. The amount of calories increases by 200 for each 50-pounds. For example, those weighting 150 to 199, should have 1,400 calories; for those 200-249, 1,600 calories is recommended. The more you weigh, the more calories you want, although you have to limit them in order to lose weight. But if you limit the calories too severely, you'll throw your body into starvation mode and that can cause damage."
link for quote

and funnyman, I agree with you - the only real way is to eat sensibly and exercise, and keep yourself informed on topics like nutrition.

It's used as a guideline. Like every other guideline out there, including the FDA guidelines, it isn't tailored to you individually, it's an average over a broad spectrum. But.. we WANT a guideline. We want to tell people try to eat more than XXX. 1200 is alot more concrete andfeasier than understand than "Figure out what your BMR is and don't eat below that." There's LOTS of ways to calculate BMR.. just look around the internet and you'll get high numbers, low numbers, etc. 1200 is a lot more... concrete.

I have had doctors recommend both the Atkins and South Beach diets to me...and even one who said, years ago, "eat less and exercise more" Would that I had listened to him!!

I have read a lot about medical weight control and it seems to me that the medical community , as a whole, does not hesitate to recommend extreme low cal weight loss, as this is expedient and requires very little mental reprogramming. But they are only providing half a cure.

So many of the extremely, malignantly obese see doctors, are admitted into the hospital and quickly lose weight. But then they bounce right back up again because no thought was given to changing their behavior -  only restricting calories.

I think it is prudent to go as slowly as possible so that your body and your mind adjust to the new way of eating.

If you dont eat enough what you eat no matter how good it is will be stored as fat. My thoughts are medical and other programs work in the short term I feel you have to make a mental comitment to do it as a way of life. I do have days where i might eat somithing bad for 1 meal But now its one day meal and 40 good insted of 40 bad and one good

ALL diets are some type of controlled starvation.  Humans are built to store fat because until modern times we did not have enough to eat everyday and we needed this whacked out metabolism to survive each winter.

You should tell your friend that if she eats below the minimum (average) daily caloric intake then she'll be losing the stuff that burns up calories everyday like muscle and organ.  If she wants to get THINNER than she should combine a healthy diet with exercise to get a thin lean-muscled frame that will make her look fantastic in a bikini. 

Skin and bones are just disgusting, I'm sure most of the guys on this board will agree that a little extra padding is very sexy.

hi everyone

just a thought... relating to bad eating habits... As far as I am concerned there is the danger of exchanging one addiction (e.g. over eating) with another (e.g. starving yourself) - more of a psychological issue in many cases... Loosing weight should be a holistic thing to do. A person can be the most beautiful person but if they don't acknowledge it they'll be forever unhappy and wreck their chances to enjoy more happy moments in their lives.. sad but true!

Maybe if you approach your friend from this angle she'll realise that you are a top friend...

love xx

thanks everyone for all you thoughts on this subject,i am taken away by all the support there is here.

i do want to be patient with my friend because she needs someone to be right?its hard because i no she must be doing damage.she was overweight when she started this whole thing,but now no she isnt overwieght she is normal but she wants to be on the lower side of normal she doesnt want to be skin and bone she is the firs person to shout out about all the skinny celebs,but she does want to be thin/petite.its always been somehting she has wanted to be. to be honest she has upped her calorific intake she used to be on one meal which consisted of veg and tuna i think,oh and she had a malt drink and apple too.and i think she has upped it,i spoke to her today and she said she was having now:a small bowl of bran flakes something like 300 cals i think,then an apple,jacket potato,portion of veg,a quarter of a tin of tuna,a tiny slice of chicken which she said was something like 12 cals,chunk of cucumber and a 10ml spoon of slad cream.oh and this malt drink thing that she has worth 224 cals,she was very interested to tell me all this and even more interested to tell me that she works it out veeeeeeeery carefully and that is comes to 870 or something along thos lines.i am worried very worried about her,for a start working her food out like she does in this obsessive way is going to get more out of hand,and this almost proudness she has when telling me its almost aaaaaaa how to say it i dont no like just weird.

i am very worried about whether this could be the onset of an eating disorder,but then she doesnt appear to have the mental side of it,gosh i no how well people can hide the torture inside of them and they hide it damn well.but its almost like a game a competition with everyone around her,you no like you see in movies and there a girl eating something and her firend says hhhhhhh are you going to eat that oh i had  a sald it was only so many calories and luk at me i am getting so thin,its that kind of thing and that kind of talk from her.

i told her about the metabolism thing and she siad she has heard of so many people that do this and they get the metabolism back so she sint worried.

then she told me that she is thinking of going lower to just the branflakes apple and drink,the thing is like an ed i no it would please her if i told her hhhhhh you cant do that its so little it would be an ahcievement to hear that from me....she says to me that she will go lower because she feel that at the current intake it may hold on to it but then going lower it would go past starving mode and into letting go and losing.

i am scared and worried and sorry to say it fustrated i have seen people slip away into the abyss of many different eating disorders and i dont want to see anther person go through it,not knowing whether they will even come out of it.

we had a friend once that had an ed and when we used to watch her struggle with her food and take such small helpings and things 'the friend' used to sya things such harsh things like pick up the f ing fork and eat it like a nomral person,or have a burger you luk sh** things like that.and she doesnt eat like that or have the pain in her eyse when she eats,its more like she'll say eat this or eat like me look how much weight i have lost compared to you suckers,and etc etc.

but i just wonder what could make someoje do this to themsleves and still think it was o.k and grea to do,like musnt she be feeling something about how much she is going to effect her body.

and especially with what happened to our anorexic friend,i just dont understnad.

we all have issues with food i no that but i cant figure this one out all the eating things is all the classic signs of an ed but the feeling towards it the way she wants to do it not for punishment to cope to get to skin and bone and all the other aspects why ed sufferes do it.i just dont no.

i relaise i have gone on for a long time sorry,very oncerned thats all.

thanks.