Shame, guilt, and personal responsibility - the effects on weight loss

It's all my fault, I did this to myself, I just need to quit eating so much, I just want a pity party, and on and on and on. The never ending comments meant to induce personal responisibility and guilt. It's a fun time. I'm obese because I ate too much and have poor willpower. Yes, and the problem with alcoholics is that they drink too much, yet as a society, we seem much more informed of the complexities of alcoholism than those of obesity.

Guilt and shame hinder weight loss efforts. Percieved responsibility for one's obese 'condition'is in no way sufficient to motivate weight loss, and in one study, the 'personal responsibility' group did no better at weight loss than the control (i.e. no treatment) group (Tobias & MacDonald, 1977). Yep, we've known it for that long, and the clinical community seems to have accepted it. The everyday person? Not even close.

And let's not forget the myth that genetics is bunk and purely an excuse used by the obese to stay obese. Does it really matter than it's been supported by every research effort studying it? I suppose not. And the excuse bit? Turns out those informed of the genetic link find it has a 'relieving' effect that promotes realistic weight loss goals and greater satisfaction with weight loss. Those who were big in self-blame and negative feelings about current weight are most likely to fail at weight loss efforts, and the 'genetics talk,' reduces these feelings (Conradt et al, 2009). So it's true and useful? Now I'm just talking crazy.

Oh, and personality traits aren't related to weight loss. Not even the lazy, unmotivated ones (Poston et al, 1999). Nor is locus of control (whether one thinks they control their live, or the environment does) (Hankins & Hopkins, 1978).

Did you know the differences between the obese and not go beyond weight? Obese people can recall more items after brief exposure, make fewer errors in complex reaction time tasks, and perform these tasks faster. Some studies also find that obese people solve critical thinking problems faster. However, obese people are slower to solve problems if they need to change strategies mid test, the tend to make the same process apply much longer than they should. This is thought to be based on the idea that the obese react more strongly to external cues, and that they have a deficit in response inhibition. Could also explain the eating for longer/more bit, since research shows that the obese don't eat more often, just more at each sitting (Singh, 1973). Of course, what's the cause and effect here? It's possible our fat content is just messing with our brain, but it's also possible that cognitive differences can effect one's eating habits and therefore weight.

In any case, shame and guilt inhibit weight loss, personal responsibility has no effect, and informing obese people that it might not be all their fault has a (*gasp*) positive effect.

Remember that next time you want to tell someone how they got into their own situation. At best, it's a practice of futility. At worst, one of demotivation and hindrance to weight loss.

And one more thing: Many of us 'obese' got here as the summation of weight gain from rebounding from extreme diets. You know, those stupid fad bits where immediately after stopping you gain more than you lost? So one might say we became obese from efforts to not be overweight. Ironic, eh?

DISCLAIMER: I am in no way stating that anyone is incapable of losing weight. Or anything else offensive. I am not rejecting the calories in/calories out equation. I am not attacking any particular group of people. I believe when people make comments attributing blame or responsibility to overweight individuals, that they honestly believe it is helpful. Research and experience says that it is not. This is a discussion on a particular de-motivator to weight loss. Citations are available in my journal, I would be happy to email full articles to interested individuals.

EDIT: Emphasis added to the point of the topic. Disclaimer expanded. And a corrected typo.

I think everyone who successfully loses a large amount of weight has an epiphany at some point.  Sometimes it's negative and self loathing and sometimes it's just the realization that you have to do something NOW.

I never felt that self hatred, I just gained weight so gradually that I didn't think about it much, but did go on many crash diets to try to lose.  I'd lose and gain it back - the old yo-yo effect.  Finally, after seeing pictures of myself at my daughter's wedding in 2005, I realized that I was carrying too much weight and I looked sick.  That was what it took for me to search for a permanent way to lose the weight.  I've got 25 to 30 more pounds to go, but I'm feeling so much better. 

If calling oneself a glutton or lazy is what motivates someone, then they need to turn that into a positive.  I do see that you've based what you said on research that was done, and I get it that you're trying to correct the stereotype of lazy fat people.  Don't expect everyone to see it that way - most are going to be offended.  And they will miss your actual point because they are busy being offended by what went before.

Original Post by minda_spk:

In any case, shame and guild inhibit weight loss, personal responsibility has no effect, and informing obese people that it might not be all their fault has a (*gasp*) positive effect.

Remember that next time you want to tell someone how they got into their own situation. At best, it's a practice of futility. At worst, one of demotivation and hindrance to weight loss.

And one more thing: Many of us 'obese' got here as the summation of weight gain from rebounding from extreme diets. You know, those stupid fad bits where immediately after stopping you gain more than you lost? So one might say we became obese from efforts to not be overweight. Ironic, eh?

DISCLAIMER: I am in no way stating that anyone is incapable of losing weight. Or anything else offensive.

I'm afraid that your actual message is getting lost in all that goes before in your post.  People tend to skim and not really read in depth.  I guess the answer is to not write in depth.

the depth of the posts is not the problem. the fact that every. single. one. of her posts is riddled with fierce jabs directed towards any one who cannot directly relate.  the tone is just so d**n bitter.  i find it excruciatingly offensive.  i shouldn't take it so personally - but alas, i do. *obviously.. ha*

I don't understand why you've posted this.

Who is this "you" you're telling to remember this 'next time you want to tell someone how they got into their own situation'?

You want to lose weight don't you? That's why you're on here, calorie counting like the rest of us fatties, thinnies and in-the-middle-ies? So why all the anger?

When I first started reading your posts I thought maybe you had a point but actually I am starting to agree with those who have called you bitter. You do sound bitter. You do seem to have real issues with anyone who dares to be thinner than you. You seem to precieve all this hatered coming from everyone else and being directed at you. Why?

And, quite frankly, though it certainly isn't as simple as "Put down the fork and step away from the hamburger", yes, of course overweight people did it to themselves. Were you force fed? Was any overweight person of your aquaintance force fed?

You over fed yourself until you became overweight the same as an anorexic starves herself thin. Now, accept it, get over it, and start making some healthy changes to your life. If that means therapy as well as gym membership then so be it.

The quoted post has been previously moderated and therefore, cannot be seen.

You have a journal post called "Fat, Proud and Taking No Prisoners". Fine, be fat and proud of it. But don't come onto a site where people are trying to lose weight!

Original Post by misscherryjane:

The quoted post has been previously moderated and therefore cannot be seen

You have a journal post called "Fat, Proud and Taking No Prisoners". Fine, be fat and proud of it. But don't come onto a site where people are trying to lose weight!

again - are you directing that towards me? (i sense *not*)..i don't have a journal post labeled that, although i'm fairly sure the OP does, so i assume you're talking about her..?

and also: i agree with you 110% re: the above highlighted section of your post :]

Original Post by musicalfishmich:

Original Post by misscherryjane:

You have a journal post called "Fat, Proud and Taking No Prisoners". Fine, be fat and proud of it. But don't come onto a site where people are trying to lose weight!

again - are you directing that towards me? (i sense *not*)..i don't have a journal post labeled that, although i'm fairly sure the OP does, so i assume you're talking about her..?

 

and also: i agree with you 110% re: the above highlighted section of your post :]

Sorry musicalfish, I was directing that towards the OP, should've made it clearer :)

Asking people to not stereotype and denigrate fat people or admitting that there is a genetic component to obesity is not the same as encouraging people to stay fat. While self-loathing may be an effective motivating force for some individuals, others do much better without all the emotional baggage. Personally, I was not able to successfully lose weight until I identified the physiological factors making me fat in the first place, such as increased appetite due to my meds and carb sensitivity, and taking "one size fits all" diet advice that just happened to not fit me. Note that poor self control and gluttony did not factor into it anywhere.

I found this part in particular to be interesting: Turns out those informed of the genetic link find it has a 'relieving' effect that promotes realistic weight loss goals and greater satisfaction with weight loss. Those who were big in self-blame and negative feelings about current weight are most likely to fail at weight loss efforts, and the 'genetics talk,' reduces these feelings (Conradt et al, 2009).

Minda, thanks for the well-researched and thought-provoking post.

Original Post by misscherryjane:

The quoted post has been previously moderated and therefore, cannot be seen

You have a journal post called "Fat, Proud and Taking No Prisoners". Fine, be fat and proud of it. But don't come onto a site where people are trying to lose weight!

just to reiterate - i completely agree with misscherryjane and my original post. it was deleted - apparently free speech doesn't extend to this website. nice.

another clarification for ms. clairelane: although the title of the OP's dramatic posts are what attracts me to them at first, I do read and comprehend the entirety of the OP's message.  Hence why the one's I have personally read from her all have the same theme of a defensive instigating nature. 

If I feel the OP has offended me with my entire comprehension of the contents of her post, you bet I'm going to respond with an appropriate response as to how it affected me.

that is all.

hmmm...I'm really not sure I understand what is offensive about the post. It seemed well researched and plainly stated to me, unless there is some backstory I'm not aware of (I don't usually hang out in the Motivation forum)

give me a bit and i can find just as many sources to site with opposing instigating "facts".

isn't it amazing what can be found on the internet to suit our own agendas?

and just as a quick example, i posted this as a topic earlier today..:

http://www.salon.com/env/feature/2009/06/18/o vereating/index.html

an article interviewing the former head of the Food and Drug Administration.

I agree with theholla...I don't understand the anger over this post.  I read it and saw someone writing about how guilt and feeling bad about ourselves for being obese doesn't help us lose weight.

Isn't it possible to NOT be in a cycle of feeling guilty about what we eat, hating the way we look, and yet still want to improve the way we look and make ourselves healthier? 

I think it's pretty clear at this point that minda_spk just likes conflict. She knows what's going to stir the pot, so she writes it. I think it's less about in-powering overweight people, and more about starting a flame war. Have fun.

Maybe she's just incredibly bored? That's why I come on here....

minda, this site is for people who have admitted they have a problem, are working to fix it, and looking for support towards those goals.  Your embittered posts revolve around how the world judges us and trying to make us feel better for being fat, which is something we don't want to be.  Furthermore, w

hat you fail to realize is that when we are no longer overweight we will continue to be judged, but by even more stringent standards because we will be compared to the 'beautiful' skinny people.  It's just the facts of our society.

If you really want to use this website to lose weight, I suggest you make a new profile and start over.  Otherwise, please join a fatty activist group or start a blog to contain your ramblings.

While I see your point and can empathize with it, I believe this is not the proper outlet for you.

http://www.protraineronline.com/past/2003/feb 2003/obesity.cfm

an example of a more positive spin on how obesity can be combated in the U.S. and abroad.

however, I particularly liked the last bit of the article:

"...Each adult individual is responsible for the amount of calories ingested and burned on a daily basis. Almost any plan that reduces calories, limits fat and controls portion size will work when coupled with exercise done on a daily basis. Health is not an area where we should make compromises. It is time we start taking responsibility and place the blame for this expanding crisis right at the individual level, for it is the individual that determines the quantities of food ingested and whether or not that food is stored as fat or burned as the body's fuel. So, keep it simple and start today!

Obesity prescription

1. Move more! Start slow with the goal to build both endurance and intensity.
2. Eat less! Record every bite and re-evaluate portion size.
3. Take responsibility for your actions!
4. Stop making excuses and just do it!"

So....the op says in her post that we shouldn't hate ourselves because we are obese and that there are some psych./behavior studies that don't show obese people in a totally negative light.  How in the world is this caused so much negativity?  Where does it say in her post that she doesn't want to lose weight?  Where does it say that she is promoting people to stay obese?

What is the point that you are trying to make Musicalfishmich?  Other than that you don't like the tone that she wrote the post with.

"Did you know the differences between the obese and not go beyond weight? Obese people can recall more items after brief exposure, make fewer errors in complex reaction time tasks, and perform these tasks faster. Some studies also find that obese people solve critical thinking problems faster. ...This is thought to be based on the idea that the obese react more strongly to external cues, and that they have a deficit in response inhibition..."

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with her being absolutely fine and happy in her self, body, whatever - but this and other of her posts (which you seem to not have read..) seem to be lashing out especially to those who are not obese and therefore she wants nothing to do with.

And again, as stated by me above, I am indeed taking this personally, and feel I have every right to respond with my honest reaction.

having said that, I'm through with this particular thread.

Original Post by trcyh:

So....the op says in her post that we shouldn't hate ourselves because we are obese and that there are some psych./behavior studies that don't show obese people in a totally negative light.  How in the world is this caused so much negativity?  Where does it say in her post that she doesn't want to lose weight?  Where does it say that she is promoting people to stay obese?

What is the point that you are trying to make Musicalfishmich?  Other than that you don't like the tone that she wrote the post with.

 

 

also, last point, do you not notice that I don't seem to be the only one disgruntled by the OPs threads, and feel they are inappropriate for this website?