Shame, guilt, and personal responsibility - the effects on weight loss

It's all my fault, I did this to myself, I just need to quit eating so much, I just want a pity party, and on and on and on. The never ending comments meant to induce personal responisibility and guilt. It's a fun time. I'm obese because I ate too much and have poor willpower. Yes, and the problem with alcoholics is that they drink too much, yet as a society, we seem much more informed of the complexities of alcoholism than those of obesity.

Guilt and shame hinder weight loss efforts. Percieved responsibility for one's obese 'condition'is in no way sufficient to motivate weight loss, and in one study, the 'personal responsibility' group did no better at weight loss than the control (i.e. no treatment) group (Tobias & MacDonald, 1977). Yep, we've known it for that long, and the clinical community seems to have accepted it. The everyday person? Not even close.

And let's not forget the myth that genetics is bunk and purely an excuse used by the obese to stay obese. Does it really matter than it's been supported by every research effort studying it? I suppose not. And the excuse bit? Turns out those informed of the genetic link find it has a 'relieving' effect that promotes realistic weight loss goals and greater satisfaction with weight loss. Those who were big in self-blame and negative feelings about current weight are most likely to fail at weight loss efforts, and the 'genetics talk,' reduces these feelings (Conradt et al, 2009). So it's true and useful? Now I'm just talking crazy.

Oh, and personality traits aren't related to weight loss. Not even the lazy, unmotivated ones (Poston et al, 1999). Nor is locus of control (whether one thinks they control their live, or the environment does) (Hankins & Hopkins, 1978).

Did you know the differences between the obese and not go beyond weight? Obese people can recall more items after brief exposure, make fewer errors in complex reaction time tasks, and perform these tasks faster. Some studies also find that obese people solve critical thinking problems faster. However, obese people are slower to solve problems if they need to change strategies mid test, the tend to make the same process apply much longer than they should. This is thought to be based on the idea that the obese react more strongly to external cues, and that they have a deficit in response inhibition. Could also explain the eating for longer/more bit, since research shows that the obese don't eat more often, just more at each sitting (Singh, 1973). Of course, what's the cause and effect here? It's possible our fat content is just messing with our brain, but it's also possible that cognitive differences can effect one's eating habits and therefore weight.

In any case, shame and guilt inhibit weight loss, personal responsibility has no effect, and informing obese people that it might not be all their fault has a (*gasp*) positive effect.

Remember that next time you want to tell someone how they got into their own situation. At best, it's a practice of futility. At worst, one of demotivation and hindrance to weight loss.

And one more thing: Many of us 'obese' got here as the summation of weight gain from rebounding from extreme diets. You know, those stupid fad bits where immediately after stopping you gain more than you lost? So one might say we became obese from efforts to not be overweight. Ironic, eh?

DISCLAIMER: I am in no way stating that anyone is incapable of losing weight. Or anything else offensive. I am not rejecting the calories in/calories out equation. I am not attacking any particular group of people. I believe when people make comments attributing blame or responsibility to overweight individuals, that they honestly believe it is helpful. Research and experience says that it is not. This is a discussion on a particular de-motivator to weight loss. Citations are available in my journal, I would be happy to email full articles to interested individuals.

EDIT: Emphasis added to the point of the topic. Disclaimer expanded. And a corrected typo.

Solar: Part of my healthy lifestyle involves abstaining from sweeteners. As such, I'm all out of honey :D

Thanks for breaking it down more tactfully.

Original Post by misscherryjane:

To everyone who asked what exactly is wrong with this post; Remember that next time you want to tell someone how they got into their own situation.

Who is she talking to? Who is she accusing of being accusing?

My other problem is that she is on this site to become one of the evil thin people yet can't stop saying how much she loves being overweight. So why is she here? To continually post on subjects she knows will provoke people.

I don't know why musicalfishmich's post was deleted, it made a very good point.

touche'

Original Post by minda_spk:

This topic is about motivation for weight LOSS. WEIGHT loss. WEIGHT LOSS. How does that make me love being obese? For that matter, how do any of my posts make it sound like I love being obese? Or my profile? I don't think fat people should get treated poorly because of their weight. That is my agenda. Stop making it up. That's all it is. In this case I'm pointing out a common misconception that placing responsibility and blame on the overweight individual is motivating, when it is not.

minda_spk's quotes: "Well, f***, I am fat. In the best of all possible worlds, I'm going to continue to be ...I will not hate it. I will not hate myself. I will not take crap about it. I will post on these forums everyday as the ever-lovin fat advocate. I will post repeatedely about how fat people can be considered healthy. ...I will start more topics advocating my own body and that of those like me, obese..."

just a few examples from your own "fingers" answering your above question.

minda: No no, paragraphs are cool. What I meant was that you had your arguments clearly listed out. Your post looks like it's asking for a good debate, and a good debate is always welcome.

And let's not forget the myth that genetics is bunk and purely an excuse used by the obese to stay obese. Does it really matter than it's been supported by every research effort studying it? I suppose not. And the excuse bit? Turns out those informed of the genetic link find it has a 'relieving' effect that promotes realistic weight loss goals and greater satisfaction with weight loss. Those who were big in self-blame and negative feelings about current weight are most likely to fail at weight loss efforts, and the 'genetics talk,' reduces these feelings (Conradt et al, 2009). So it's true and useful? Now I'm just talking crazy.

Oh, and personality traits aren't related to weight loss. Not even the lazy, unmotivated ones (Poston et al, 1999). Nor is locus of control (whether one thinks they control their live, or the environment does) (Hankins & Hopkins, 1978).

You mention genetics and personality a lot. There comes a point when genetics and personality cease to matter, and overweight individuals must take personal responsibility. The way society sees it, their weight is their own fault. Some of us will point that out because we're sarcastic and blunt like you. (Although your sense of humor is totally cool with me :P)

I'm simply stating that the idea that one must take personal responsibility for their weight and be ashamed for being that weigh is shown to make weight loss more difficult.

No one should be ashamed. Shame won't burn calories. But personal responsibility? Are you saying that overweight people shed pounds faster when they're in denial?

musicalfishmich: Keep at it. I'm really enjoying this :D

Minda's not advocating being fat.   I think she just wants to stand up for big people and spread the word that you dont have to feel bad about yourself or your fatness.  Also, when you are in the minority or in a position where people are more likely to be negative towards you, sometimes you have to be a little bit louder to get your point across.   The majority of people on this site just want to get skinnier for the sake of not being fat.  For me, its nice to hear someone being loud about how they just want to have a healthy, happy life all around regardless of being fat.   It seems to me that minda's message is that if you start making healthy habits-both mentally and physically-then the weight loss will follow, so dont focus so much on how much being fat sucks, focus on being a healthy, happy person.    I hate to jump in and speak for you, minda, so correct me if what I said is wrong.

no one - let me repeat - no one is saying anyone should feel bad about oneself for being large or obese.  hell i don't feel bad.  one's size doesn't affect the state of one's inner self and personality.

also: i disagree that the majority of the people here want to get skinnier just for the sake of skinniness.  i think there are a fair amount of people who are in the pursuit of health. 

and, um, just as a news flash, this website is called "Calorie Count" - which by definition intuits weight loss. 

and i also do not disagree with the message that making mental and physical healthy habits will allow weight loss to follow.  and, once again, let me reiterate that i do not believe any one is disagreeing with putting the focus on being a healthy and happy person.  and if that is what minda has been saying in her countless insulting posts - apparently her and i simply do not speak the same language.

apparently you guys dont speak the same language.  i get minda and i like her because to me she has a positive outlook on things.   you seem to think she  negative and rude.   why dont you just stop reading her posts? (yes i know you have a right to respond to these posts, but why keep making yourself unhappy?)

making myself unhappy? i'm amusing the hell outta myself.  why would i stop?

you think the OP has a positive outlook? LOL - speaking of amusing..

so then you like to stir the pot and cause trouble just as much as you say minda does?   but you're not being rude and negative.  only her. 

and yes, i think she has a positive outlook.  im very close to the same age and weight as her.  i get her and her experiences.  i share a similar perspective with her.  i like her take on getting healthy.

i feel like she needs/wants to be challenged by what the threads she creates.  maybe you think i'm being rude and negative because you can't relate to me and see from my perspective why i have jumped on the defensive.

no, i know your perspective is different.   There are also plenty of people here who connect with minda and appreciate her thoughts.  maybe she's posting for them and not just trying to get a rise out of people like you. 

honeslty, i just think you're a hypocrite.   you take over her thread and start insulting her because you feel insulted by her threads.  why not just walk away?

These posts seem pretty thoughtful to me.  It's an interesting problem.  Of course, losing weight often (if not always) depends on making a conscious choice to do things differently.  It is an act of free will.  But how do you encourage people to take that step?  What I understand minda to be saying is that blaming people, and throwing their failure in their faces (e.g., you did this to yourself), whether or not it is true, tends to discourage people from exercising their will to change.  Perhaps a more constructive approach, such as acknowledging the power to change and the power that comes from good nutritional information, is more helpful.

Original Post by musicalfishmich:

minda_spk's quotes: "Well, f***, I am fat. In the best of all possible worlds, I'm going to continue to be ...I will not hate it. I will not hate myself. I will not take crap about it. I will post on these forums everyday as the ever-lovin fat advocate. I will post repeatedely about how fat people can be considered healthy. ...I will start more topics advocating my own body and that of those like me, obese..."

 If you must quote my journal, please don't do it in a way that is purposely misleading. In that '...' you left out "for the next two years."

As in "In the best of all possible worlds, I'm going to continue to be for the next 2 years."

As in, because I am on a healthy diet and only losing one to two lbs a week, it's going to take me almost 2 years to get to a healthy weight. I have very clearly previously stated that it annoys me to be looked at as unhealthy because of my weight, when I'm really just in the process of losing it slowly.

And I'm most certainly allowed to rant in my journal.

yeah, "for the next two years" is the most important part of that whole statement.  it completely nullifies musicalfishmich's whole point.  no wonder she left it out.

Original Post by musicalfishmich:

no one - let me repeat - no one is saying anyone should feel bad about oneself for being large or obese.  hell i don't feel bad.  one's size doesn't affect the state of one's inner self and personality.

 So you think blaming people for their weight is a good thing? Or do you actually agree with everything I said and just enjoy being insulted by it?

Original Post by musicalfishmich:

i feel like she needs/wants to be challenged by what the threads she creates. 

That is the impression she's created.

And yes musicalfishmich did leave out the important "for the next two years" bit but you can't deny the "I will post on these forums everyday as the ever-lovin fat advocate." bit can you?

Of COURSE no-one should feel bad or guilty about being overweight, that's not going to help anything.

Minda - Yes, funnily enough, I got that you were speaking to people who blame overweight people for their own weight gain, but I repeat my question of who this is exactly? Has someone told you that you're a fat lazy glutton with no willpower?

And as Helionix said, shame is no good, obviously, but personal responsibility? Without taking responsibility over their own lives and for their own actions no alcohol will stay dry, no absent parent will ever form a relationship with their child and no fat person will ever lose weight.

Genetics do play a part, I posted on another thread (one of yours? I can't remember) about how the mother basically programs her child's fat cells and metabolism during pregnancy, but that doesn't mean we can't take control. Some of us just need to work harder than others. The ones who take responsibilty for their actions will

Taking personal responsibility for weight LOSS is extremely important, as I've stated. Taking personal responsibility for the weight previously gained is not. Or so my research says. As is the point of this post.

You also don't like my intentions/tone. Neither does musicalfish. Stating it over and over doesn't make it more compelling.

Out of the many redundant offended replies between the two of you, consider it noted that you don't like the tone, and question my intentions for being here. However, this topic does have a point, and perhaps you can decide my intentions elsewhere, or start a topic relevant to that discussion.

NOW, could be maybe possibly please discuss the CONTENT of the topic. You know, what I was saying instead of how I was saying it.

Original Post by minda_spk:

Taking personal responsibility for weight LOSS is extremely important, as I've stated. Taking personal responsibility for the weight previously gained is not. Or so my research says. As is the point of this post.

You also don't like my intentions/tone. Neither does musicalfish. Stating it over and over doesn't make it more compelling.

Out of the many redundant offended replies between the two of you, consider it noted that you don't like the tone, and question my intentions for being here. However, this topic does have a point, and perhaps you can decide my intentions elsewhere, or start a topic relevant to that discussion.

NOW, could be maybe possibly please discuss the CONTENT of the topic. You know, what I was saying instead of how I was saying it.

I never mentioned your tone. It is impossible to ascertain tone when you're reading something. I was questioning specific parts of your post. You didn't answer my questions.

Original Post by minda_spk:

Taking personal responsibility for weight LOSS is extremely important, as I've stated. Taking personal responsibility for the weight previously gained is not. Or so my research says. As is the point of this post.

I repeat: Are you saying that overweight people shed pounds faster when they're in denial?

It seems sad. Of course comments such as "You lazy glutton" don't help, but "You got yourself overweight" is the truth if you believe in free will. If you're as comfortable in your own skin as you say you are, then the truth shouldn't bother you.

However, point taken. I have never mentioned weight to an overweight person, but I will watch my words in the future.

damn. after your stalking PM i could've sworn i blocked you. must do again.