Shame, guilt, and personal responsibility - the effects on weight loss

It's all my fault, I did this to myself, I just need to quit eating so much, I just want a pity party, and on and on and on. The never ending comments meant to induce personal responisibility and guilt. It's a fun time. I'm obese because I ate too much and have poor willpower. Yes, and the problem with alcoholics is that they drink too much, yet as a society, we seem much more informed of the complexities of alcoholism than those of obesity.

Guilt and shame hinder weight loss efforts. Percieved responsibility for one's obese 'condition'is in no way sufficient to motivate weight loss, and in one study, the 'personal responsibility' group did no better at weight loss than the control (i.e. no treatment) group (Tobias & MacDonald, 1977). Yep, we've known it for that long, and the clinical community seems to have accepted it. The everyday person? Not even close.

And let's not forget the myth that genetics is bunk and purely an excuse used by the obese to stay obese. Does it really matter than it's been supported by every research effort studying it? I suppose not. And the excuse bit? Turns out those informed of the genetic link find it has a 'relieving' effect that promotes realistic weight loss goals and greater satisfaction with weight loss. Those who were big in self-blame and negative feelings about current weight are most likely to fail at weight loss efforts, and the 'genetics talk,' reduces these feelings (Conradt et al, 2009). So it's true and useful? Now I'm just talking crazy.

Oh, and personality traits aren't related to weight loss. Not even the lazy, unmotivated ones (Poston et al, 1999). Nor is locus of control (whether one thinks they control their live, or the environment does) (Hankins & Hopkins, 1978).

Did you know the differences between the obese and not go beyond weight? Obese people can recall more items after brief exposure, make fewer errors in complex reaction time tasks, and perform these tasks faster. Some studies also find that obese people solve critical thinking problems faster. However, obese people are slower to solve problems if they need to change strategies mid test, the tend to make the same process apply much longer than they should. This is thought to be based on the idea that the obese react more strongly to external cues, and that they have a deficit in response inhibition. Could also explain the eating for longer/more bit, since research shows that the obese don't eat more often, just more at each sitting (Singh, 1973). Of course, what's the cause and effect here? It's possible our fat content is just messing with our brain, but it's also possible that cognitive differences can effect one's eating habits and therefore weight.

In any case, shame and guilt inhibit weight loss, personal responsibility has no effect, and informing obese people that it might not be all their fault has a (*gasp*) positive effect.

Remember that next time you want to tell someone how they got into their own situation. At best, it's a practice of futility. At worst, one of demotivation and hindrance to weight loss.

And one more thing: Many of us 'obese' got here as the summation of weight gain from rebounding from extreme diets. You know, those stupid fad bits where immediately after stopping you gain more than you lost? So one might say we became obese from efforts to not be overweight. Ironic, eh?

DISCLAIMER: I am in no way stating that anyone is incapable of losing weight. Or anything else offensive. I am not rejecting the calories in/calories out equation. I am not attacking any particular group of people. I believe when people make comments attributing blame or responsibility to overweight individuals, that they honestly believe it is helpful. Research and experience says that it is not. This is a discussion on a particular de-motivator to weight loss. Citations are available in my journal, I would be happy to email full articles to interested individuals.

EDIT: Emphasis added to the point of the topic. Disclaimer expanded. And a corrected typo.

i have to agree with jessica

I have to blame my childhood obesity on my parents. I was given all kinds of fried and fast food and french fries were seen as vegetables.

And I'm just going to throw this one out there, to see what everyone else thinks..But I do blame some of my adulthood obesity on my parents..why you may ask? Because they never taught me to eat vegetables or to eat fruit or what a balanced meal was or the importance of exercise. What they fed me is what my body was used to and what my palate was used to. After eating that way for 18 years because I had no choice, being that I lived under their roof and in their household..But now that I do have a choice, I look for comfort and I have a craving for the foods I grew up eating. Vegetables/fruits taste foreign in my mouth and I have to force myself to exercise. I read on Ask Mary, a person asked how long does it take to form a new habit, and she said how long did it take you to form that habit? Well, it took me 18 years of eating badly like that......and now I have 18 more years to undue it.....Kind of daunting but at the same time it helps me set up realistic expectations...

Edit:Just because I put partial blame on my parents for some of my adult hood obesity, doesn't mean that I don't take ownership for my weight-loss (people have said this too me) I do take ownership to where I have gotten myself today and for what I need to do to lose weight ;O)

It's the late night club!

Jessica, I agree. You shouldn't know it's bad. Honestly, it's impressive that you figured out healthy vs unhealthy within two years of being an adult, it took me a couple extra years of unhealthy dieting (I was misinformed, and just thought that was how it was done). I have never met a child that would refuse a treat (candy, pizza, etc.). I have never met one that would refuse it after giving it to them everyday. Children should not be expected to understand the idea of putting off immediate pleasure for long term attractiveness. Really, it would just take all the fun out of being kid. I didn't gain weight til puberty, and I was still really active with sports and such. My brother was skinny as a rail, still is, despite living off pepperoni and mac and cheese. My parents were busy, crazy, struggling, poor, foster parents, the 'health' of their children well a couple rungs below providing food for everyone on the priority scale.

By the time I became overweight, I was in a small, close-knit high school. Then I went to a prestigous college where looks were not important, so it was quite delayed when I started getting rudeness about my weight. I had already made peace with my body image, hence my absolute refusal to accept the crap people say to overweight people. I think many overweight people accept it or glaze over it because they're used to it, or worse, they think they deserve it. I am not any of those, and I don't want to be.

Booster: I think it's fair. I don't think you should punch them in the face or anything, but my crazy assumption here is that if you know what contributed to your weight gain, it can help take it off and maintain it. My parents used food for treats and comfort, and thats what I continued doing. Reasons I gained weight? Or at least contributing factors?
1) genes. Yep, I'm using it. I started gaining weight at puberty, despite my brother and other people my age living in my house, not.
2) Injury: I played soccer in high school, which kept me from crossing the overweight/obese line. I was young, dumb, and oblivious to healthy eating. I was accustomed to carb and protein loading all the time. The end of my senior year I sustained stress fractures in my shins that made walking/jogging painful for the next year. I wasn't smart enough to change my diet despite the fact that I went from 2 hrs high intensity workout a day to sedentary.
3) Depression post-divorce. Comfort with food. For 6-8 months.
4) Poverty: I've heard the 'you can eat healthy on a budget' I was poor enough to not care. I brought home $180 a week living in atlanta. I was poor enough to have to choose between toiletries and groceries, so my diet became a fast-binge type through these circumstances. One week, all there is to eat is ramen, rice, and bologna. Next week is payday and grocery shopping and eating lots craved by my starving body.
5) Fad diets, extreme diets, etc. Every bit of weight I've gained since leaving atlanta, I gained as a surplus of weight I had just lost. It took my different tries and different diets to figure out what I was doing wrong.

Oh, and Booster: you don't need that disclaimer here, I assume you're on this site because you're being pro-active about weight loss : )
Then again, that doesn't mean it's obvious to others.

Minda I agree with you.....It can help me take it off and maintain. I agree with the genes part as I have siblings that ate the same food and were just as sedentary as me and are not obese.......

I also agree with the Fad diets/extreme diets: Although I know they were detrimental to my health and I wouldn't wish them on anyone. I know that they helped me get to where I am today--which for myself is eating organic, low processed food and watching calories etc etc......This is a daily struggle of course, as fast food is always screaming my name ......

I think my mother put me on diet pills when I was like 11, I asked her too and she did. Poor thing didn't know better. I didn't last long on them as I had bad side affects.

Do you ever recall things? such as...I remember when I was 13 and I needed a dress for a school play..So we were searching all around the house....Looking for one....I tried on one of my mothers and it didn't fit..I started laughin...and she squeezed the he** out of my cheeks telling me that it wasn't funny that I was fat and couldn't fit into anything. This so engraved in my head. From this day on, I tried so many extreme/fad diets..Trying to get the weight off. Also, I always tried to lose weights for vacations, holidays, and when I saw my mother---when I left for school...Trying to lose weight to fix this little 13 year old..

In Junior High I joined the track team and i started waking up in the mornings to jog before school--all on my own...No one told me too....Still eating the same kind of foods though....Anyways I remember getting down to a size 12 and how great it felt to be praised...Everyone talking about how good I looked..Well, what no one told me, was that I would have to continue exercising but no one did. So I stopped and of course gained the weight back and plus....

It would have been great if there was a nutritionist or a health educator in school to teach about healthy eating/exercise...My health class didn't do any of that. Maybe I would have learned the importance of calorie in versus calorie out--which I didn't learn until--dang like 2 years ago??

I remember one day at school a discussion of one's favorite parts of her body came up. I wasn't sure. After school, I asked my mom what she thought the best part of my body was. There was a very long pause followed by... 'your hair... or maybe your eyes" Amazing how much a silence can say. I was plenty old enough to know she hadn't actually misunderstood my question. By the time I was in my teens, my mom wanted me to be her fad diet buddy, and I gained the weight with her afterwards. I was very much in the 'extreme diet' habit before I had even reached adulthood. She always talked about disliking her body and how desperately she needed to lose weight to not look in a cow in a bathing suit... when I was many sizes larger than she. Everything I wore was evaluated based on how 'flattering' it was.

This one time, I was like 15 and we were bathing suit shopping. I tried on several I liked (I've always had a good body-image, maybe that's genetic too, because my all accounts, I shouldn't have :). So, since she was buying, she was helping me pick them out. I was loving the tankinis (in style that season), and she wasn't. She picks one out for me to try on, and the thing is a dress. I seriously have owned respectable summer dresses more revealing than this swim suit. She raved on and on about how flattering it was and that was the one she was getting for me. I left the store feeling completely ashamed that my mother was more embarrassed by my body than I was.

This is kind of cathartic : )

Oh, and the health class was way to busy explaining the dangers of AIDS, how to use a condom, and why you shouldn't smoke or drink to bother with nutrition.

Eh: It does feel good to get out, but it also pisses me off. Is it wrong of me to wish that I were taught healthier ways as a child? Or taught to love my body more as a child, because like your mother, my mother hated my body and still does

wait this is a funny thing......Even though our mother's didn't like our bodies and were more ashamed of them more than we were..Look how we turned out. I totally dig myself and I can say I look sexy as hell and i have some great curves. I love my body. Of course it has taken me a while to get here, it wasn't over night. But I do love my fat body..lol.....But being the way I was raised, I shouldn't ---right/??? How is it that we defie the odds?

Deep seated teenage rebellion?

'If you hate my body, I'm going to love it forever!! ::slams door::' : D

Actually I think it was more seeing my mom dislike her body, when it was skinny, when it was not as. She whined about it all the time and was never satisfied. It was such a constant thing, and such a waste of time to me. I think most mature individuals learn a lot from what they don't like about their parents. That's one for me. I never wanted to be like that. I never have been.

I was also extremely lucky to attend a small close knit high school, an engineering college for 2 years, and always have a good group of intelligent friends. So my personality and body image were quite set (in my fat body) before I ever had to deal with the overweight stigma or general shallowness of many people. I do sometimes think that my mom was wrong, but she did encourage me to be more than pretty. And if I had lived a childhood of endless teasing about my weight, maybe I would have turned out differently.

As for my parents. I forgive them a little since they are both also just now figuring out what being 'healthy' means.

Oh, and my mom gave me the 'fat talk' last year. She took me out to eat (of all things!). We were eating the same meal, and she brings up how I really need to lose weight because she's 'worried about my health' It had been months since I had seen her last, and I had lost weight since then.

Im actually really fortunate to have a mother who always told me how beautiful I was.  She has never ever called me fat or ugly or anywhere near it.  Ironically, it was the fact that my mother was the only person to ever call me beautiful that made me feel bad.  Mothers have to compliment their kids so I didnt believe her half the time.

I'll never forget one of the comments my dad made to me one time.  We were watching americas funniest home videos and there was a bunch of cute babies on doing funny stuff.  Everyone in my family loves babies and we were all laughing and then my dad kind of sighed and said, "Well, Ive already come to terms with the fact that I'm never getting any grandchildren."   I was 15 or 16 years old at the time.  I'm not sure if the comment was directly related to my weight, but the fact that my dad had given up on any man ever wanting to have children with me, when I was only 16 years old still hurts to even think about.   I can also remember always being that girl in school that it was a joke to pretend to be attracted to.  One boy in home-ec used to come up to me everyday and talk about how much he wanted to go out with me while all his other friends sat there laughing.  I actually had to go to my guidance counselor and make up some fake excuse as to why I should be allowed to transfer out of that class (it worked, but the kids in the other class were just as bad).

I remember in 3rd or 4th grade everyone in my PE class had to do as many situps as they could in 1 minute.  The teacher said that the minimum was 30.  I only made it to 28 while everyone else had no problem exeeding 30.   Then we had to announce out loud how many situps we did.  I lied to the teacher and said 30 and a few of my friends actually got mad at me because they knew I had lied.

I also remember in 7th grade, faking sick and begging to stay from school because I didnt want to have to take my shirt off in front of the other girls on the day that we were getting checked for scoliosis. 

I feel like i spent my entire childhood plotting ways to avoid being tormented or rejected.  it really messed me up for a while. 

I was picked on for being the fat kid, 6th grade was really a bad year for me. I went home in tears many times because 2 boys decided they would torment me about my weight......

I do remember one thing about my 6th grade year, there was one day where  a teacher intervened--the boys got detention and she told me about how she used to be picked on as a child, so when she was an adult she started to get in shape and ran marathons, she went back to her 10 year high school reunion and she was thin/in-shape while her tormentors were overweight and fat. Maybe that's why I started jogging in junior high, as short-lived as it was? I dunno...

I also used to get called other names but I would just brush them off. After my 6th grade year, I never really got picked on like I did then. My sister caused me the most pain/hurt over my weight--I'm guessing she knew that was the way to get to me...So she would do it...I think it's probably the hurt I suffered from my family that is worse than by strangers....

Okay. I've read through these posts, and will admit to being wrong about childhood obesity. I'm sorry. I'm still young. As solar said, I have a lot to learn. Thank you for your insights.

However... blame with sympathy? Have you never faulted yourself for something? Faulted a friend? You can be realistic and sympathetic at the same time. Or are your loved ones excused from blame? My parents lay that one on me all the time. "This is your fault. But it's okay. You were tired. Do a better job next time." I appreciate their honesty. If that's not blame with sympathy, I don't know what is.

Why do you say I can't sympathize with your situation? Now who's on a pedestal? I'd like to avoid giving you my life story, but I too know what it's like to be poor. Ramen, rice, and bologna were once daily staples. Minda, everyone gains weight during puberty. Children are natural ectomorphs, but science shows that fat cells multiply like hell during puberty. I nearly went overweight myself at that age. Luckily, I caught myself before I got there.

Also... gaining weight as a teenager? It's not rocket science. You don't have to know what a calorie is. You eat less, you weigh less. I was 13 when I realized, "I'm bringing the biggest lunch out of all the girls at my table.  What, you're not supposed to eat pies and donuts for breakfast? Maybe I should eat better."

You're right, I don't know what it's like to be "the fat kid" in elementary school. I've always felt sorry for "the fat kid," though. Hopefully that's somewhat redeeming. Keep posting your stories.

Feel free to flame me. Like I said, I don't mind being told that I'm wrong, as long as you read my post and coherently contradict it.

Original Post by helionix:

Okay. I've read through these posts, and will admit to being wrong about childhood obesity. I'm sorry. I'm still young. As solar said, I have a lot to learn. Thank you for your insights.

However... blame with sympathy? Have you never faulted yourself for something? Faulted a friend? You can be realistic and sympathetic at the same time. Or are your loved ones excused from blame? My parents lay that one on me all the time. "This is your fault. But it's okay. You were tired. Do a better job next time." I appreciate their honesty. If that's not blame with sympathy, I don't know what is.

Why do you say I can't sympathize with your situation? Now who's on a pedestal? I'd like to avoid giving you my life story, but I too know what it's like to be poor. Ramen, rice, and bologna were once daily staples. Minda, everyone gains weight during puberty. Children are natural ectomorphs, but science shows that fat cells multiply like hell during puberty. I nearly went overweight myself at that age. Luckily, I caught myself before I got there.

Also... gaining weight as a teenager? It's not rocket science. You don't have to know what a calorie is. You eat less, you weigh less. I was 13 when I realized, "I'm bringing the biggest lunch out of all the girls at my table.  What, you're not supposed to eat pies and donuts for breakfast? Maybe I should eat better."

You're right, I don't know what it's like to be "the fat kid" in elementary school. I've always felt sorry for "the fat kid," though. Hopefully that's somewhat redeeming. Keep posting your stories.

Feel free to flame me. Like I said, I don't mind being told that I'm wrong, as long as you read my post and coherently contradict it.

Your parents are justifying your wrong with sympathy, that is not blame....If you are wrong you either A) accept it and find a way to make amends (sin and repentance) or B) acknowledge it, but do not hold them accountable (acknowledgment with excuse). Saying "This is your fault. But it's okay. You were tired. Do a better job next time" is clearly option B.

I never said you cannot sympathize with plight of overweight people, you however said that you are judgmental. If you feel you are worthy to judge the overweight, how are you sympathizing with their situation? (A situation that you also acknowledge you have never been in!) You have declared through your own comments that you do not sympathize with the plight of overweight. ("You got yourself into this") That is not sympathy at all, it's blame! As it seems to me you are still trying to defend your pedestal and why it's okay for you to have it.

If you truly examined yourself for faults you will find many more than you believe exist. If you do not believe me ask your parents just some of the things they think are your flaws. I guarantee (unless they are lying to you to protect your ego) their list will not match yours AND it will be very extensive! You need to stop looking at other people's imperfections because there are a whole host of them living inside of you!

All my argumenst are coherent, supported (usually by the very comments of the person I am debating), and make sense. I do not use arguments that are disingenuous, misleading, or some other form of half-truth. For the record when I step on a pedestal, it's because I'm the best. I am not afraid to declare my stature as long as I earned my right to stand up there!

Solar.....

I can relate to your stories....and I am sure some people can and some people can't. 

I think that's great that you had that insight at 13 helionix.  I would love to have had better self awareness and insight into why I was the way I was as a young teenager.  We aren't all that lucky to learn, what might seem like simple life leasons, at the same time in our lives.  I feel that we all need to be more patient with each other in that we learn lifes lessons when we are ready...and we are all ready at different times. 

To share a little of my own chubby kid story - My mom always said great things about me, but she never said great things about herself.  She was always on a diet and complaining about how fat she was....yet she was smaller than me.  For me, it was more powerful to see how my mother treated herself...than it was to hear her saying good things about her daughter...which I know she thought...because she was my mom....but it didn't make sense for me to be ok...if she was so "fat" and I was bigger than her.  She really wasn't very overweight.

When I got pregnant and found out I was having a daughter...I cried...oh my god...how am I going to raise her to not feel so bad about herself ...like I did for so many years????  That's when I really came to the realization that as a mom...modeling good self esteem is just as or more important than telling your daughter she is great.  They are both necessary. I worked on my self esteem and I never said outloud that I felt fat...or that I hated myself....and I made my mom promise to do the same lol.  My daughter is 12 now...and her sense of herself is far beyond what I was at that age...far better.  She is not overweight....and she also doesn't think she is overweight...which even skinny tweens and teens often think they are.  So far so good...I know I have to keep up working on myself and modeling good ways to treat yourself...eating, thinking, saying things outloud about yourself....as we are hitting the teens here soon and I want to see her get through that without a crappy self esteem.

It's a combo of nature and nurturing....our genetics play a factor...but so does our environment...and our genetics help us cope with our environment....we are not all the same. 

btw...I love this thread.   The discussion, the flaming...interesting stuff.

solar: Would it sound better if I said, "You got yourself into this. But it's okay. You didn't know better. Do a better job next time." The sympathy is outright stated. The fault is still there. How is saying "this is your fault" not holding someone accountable?

If you truly examined yourself for faults you will find many more than you believe exist.

Isn't that what it means to be human?

For me, it's a philosophical question. Why are people so afraid to face themselves? Why must the blame always lie somewhere else? Why can't an individual take responsibility for previous actions, learn from them, and be happy at the same time?

trcyh: That is a beautiful story. Your daughter will appreciate you someday and thank you for it. My mom constantly complains about her weight as well, even though she too is slimmer than me, but I have talked to her as I'm afraid she'll negatively influence my younger sister. I too would love to work on my self image for any of my future children.

The reason why simply saying "this is your fault"  is not holding someone accountable is simply they are being excused of their wrong! It's either they are wrong and they are held accountable or they are wrong and they are excused.  If I justify your wrong for any reason then it's not really wrong. You have purpose for breaking the rules, thus making it acceptable. If you acknowledge a fault yet you are being excused then your fault is treated as if it never happened. Does your fault still exist? Yes. Are you being held responsible? No. Your parents didn't punish you because they excused your error.  They said you were wrong but gave a reason why it was okay for you to be wrong. Basically they said "this is your fault, but it's okay." That is not being held accountable, your wrong was okay!

Facing ourselves is the reason why people are counting calories, seeing drug addiction counselors, and fighting eating disorders. Facing ourselves does not mean that others who helped us into this situation are eliminated from the equation. Quite the contrary, in facing myself, I must also face my friends, my family, my social environment, me education and it's environment, my physical being and activities, all to overcome what I face. This is me facing my demons. Though they are my demons they consist of many more things than just me. I take responsibility for my situation by acknowledging each of these other factors that have helped me get here and correcting them. That's maybe something I can do alone or it may not. Either way it is by no means simple as me just looking in the mirror and saying "Solar you got yourself into this now get yourself out." You assume that mirror only shows my reflection when in fact it shows me many places, people, events, emotions, habits, knowledge, etc that have combined to create the person that exist today. Each one of those have to be dealt with. I am facing myself and taking responsibility by addressing ALL of the reasons that led me to this situation and not just one...

helionix, i can kinda agree that preventing weight gain as a teen is a little easier.  I started my first real diet when I was 11 years old and 212 lbs.   My highest weight that I've ever reached was 252.5 lbs, once when I was 16 years old and then again when I was 19 years old.  During those 8 years I only managed to gain 40 lbs, which is not that much considering I somehow gained 80-90 extra lbs in elementary school.  The older Ive gotten the more responsibility Ive taken for myself.

However, my whole concept of taking care of myself was still really skewed.  When I was 11 I started doing Body by Jake with my mom.  I lasted on it for a little while, but eventually I couldnt do it any more, especially with school and everything.   Then when I was 13 I did my first round of the Atkins diet.  I lasted 3 weeks and lost 20 lbs.   I think I almost ended up with that chew/spit disorder at that time because I was so hungry for bread that I would chew up a piece to taste it, but I wouldnt let myself swallow it.   I gained a ton of weight after I fell of the Atkins wagon.   Then I did a variation of my own diets where I just tried to eat less, but those never produced results.  Finally when I was 17, I had my mom buy me one month's supply of Nutrisystem for Christmas.  That was my big Christmas present for the year; the one that was extra special to me.   Last year me and my mom joined weight watchers for six months too.

It wasnt until I became grown and more self sufficient that I started doing internet research on the healthy ways to lose weight that I even found out what a calorie was.  In all my attempts to lose weight I honestly never knew that calories existed.  I knew you had to eat less, but I never knew anything about health.  Now, Im the most knowledgable one in my family because Ive been taking the initiative to research health topics.  

So, I agree with trych, that we all need to learn lessons in our own time. 

edit: I also had to finally convince my mom to take me to the endocrinologist to see what was wrong with my hormones.  I always had period issues and got put on birth control pills at 15, but I wanted to actually figure out what was wrong with me.  Finally, after some blood tests I found out that I'm inuslin resistant, which apparently is directly related to weight issues.

I think we disagree because we have different perceptions of the statement "You got yourself into this." For instance, when someone says to me "it's your fault but it's okay," I don't excuse myself for wrongdoing. It's still my fault. I appreciate the "it's okay" because I assume they're being sympathetic. But in my head I'm still thinking, "Man, I screwed that one over. How can I make it better?"

solar, I agree with your second paragraph.

Again, I'm beginning to realize it comes down to personal preference. I came down with exercise bulimia and binge eating when I was 14. For years I blamed my upbringing. "If my mom hadn't said this, if she hadn't called me fat, if she hadn't shoved food in my mouth (literally), if she hadn't given me this relationship with food..."

I'm over it now, and recovering. And it all started with me looking in the mirror and realizing, "You got yourself into this. You're not a victim. You're not a mindless glob. No matter what others do or say, you're your own person. Now stop whining and clean up this mess." That moment, for me, was empowering.

So again, different takes on the same statement. You call it a half-truth. I call it a simple statement that's ultimately true when all is said and done. I'll be careful using it in the future.

jessica: I will say this: circumstances have certainly made weight management difficult for you. It's inspiring to see that you've surpassed genetics and are tackling it anyway.

EDIT - Gah, I've made my mom sound terrible. She's not that bad, really, but she doesn't know about eating disorders and weight sensitivity.

i can definately see where you're coming from helionix. Its very empowering to know that you are in control of your destiny.  I felt like I had no control for a long time, and now that I do it really nice.   I guess its also the difference between telling yourself "i got myself into this." vs. having someone else tell you the exact same thing.

^I know! Ugly things are always hard to accept. To be honest, I felt terrible after solar told me to find my flaws, though I knew he was right. Solar, you made me take a good hard look at myself.

jessica, you're only a few years older than I am! I love hearing how you've regained control of your life. I know so many older people who can't say the same.

I've spent too much darn time on CC today. Will be back later :D

Original Post by helionix:

I think we disagree because we have different perceptions of the statement "You got yourself into this." For instance, when someone says to me "it's your fault but it's okay," I don't excuse myself for wrongdoing. It's still my fault. I appreciate the "it's okay" because I assume they're being sympathetic. But in my head I'm still thinking, "Man, I screwed that one over. How can I make it better?"

solar, I agree with your second paragraph.

Again, I'm beginning to realize it comes down to personal preference. I came down with exercise bulimia and binge eating when I was 14. For years I blamed my upbringing. "If my mom hadn't said this, if she hadn't called me fat, if she hadn't shoved food in my mouth (literally), if she hadn't given me this relationship with food..."

I'm over it now, and recovering. And it all started with me looking in the mirror and realizing, "You got yourself into this. You're not a victim. You're not a mindless glob. No matter what others do or say, you're your own person. Now stop whining and clean up this mess." That moment, for me, was empowering.

So again, different takes on the same statement. You call it a half-truth. I call it a simple statement that's ultimately true when all is said and done. I'll be careful using it in the future.

jessica: I will say this: circumstances have certainly made weight management difficult for you. It's inspiring to see that you've surpassed genetics and are tackling it anyway.

EDIT - Gah, I've made my mom sound terrible. She's not that bad, really, but she doesn't know about eating disorders and weight sensitivity.

I don't think we disagree at all. First off you do realize there is a difference between being excused for a wrong and atoning for it. You mention that despite someone saying don't worry about it you still seek to make it better. So there is a difference between on how you take your errors (you try to atone for them) and how someone else might take your errors (they excuse it). This shows the difference that I was referring to. You can clearly see here how someone can say "this is your fault" and yet not hold you accountable. (You may not realize it because you always hold yourself accountable)

When you stood in front of the mirror and had your epiphany you adjusted the factors in your life that created your situation! There were actions that you took. Those actions weren't directed at yourself. They were directed at the supporting factors of your bulima. You adjusted your relationship to all the things in your life that combined to create your bulima. You just didn't stand in front of the mirror make a statement of change and continue doing the same things as  usual. Those changes were made in you, your environment, and anywhere else that supported your bulimic behavior. In taking responsibility you addressed multiple issues not just yourself. That is my point. You changed more than yourself to deal with your bulima, likewise we all have to address more than one factor to deal with our situation. Does this negate the profound moment that you looked in the mirror and took responsibility? No, but it does not end with you looking in the mirror and taking responsibility.

I call your statement a half-truth because it does not clearly state that there are adjustments that need to be made. Those adjustments will not necessarily be in me. It maybe places I go, friends I hang with, things I eat, what I watch,etc. Yet each of these things MUST be addressed in order for me to gain control of my problem. I did not get over my problem by simply stating I got myself into this and you did not do that either...

Solar....

Edit: For our discussion on this thread, I truly think you are a good individual and your intention is not to belittle, mock, or offend anyone. I think you just probably need to work on how you get your point across. Good luck to you kid, underneath the rubble you'll find the right way!