Slightly strange, and dare I say, offensive...

I was just browsing the site and came across this litte passage:

Ideally, you should lose enough weight to place you in the adequate weight range on the BMI chart, which is a BMI of 18.5 - 24.9. For example, for a 5'5" tall person, the adequate range is 114 - 144 pounds. The range accounts for differences in gender, frame size and muscle mass. Small-boned Asian and some Caucasian women should aim for the bottom of the range, while men, large-boned and African people are better placed at the top of the range. Considerable variation exists among individuals regardless of race."

 Perhaps someone can explain the need/reason for differentiating between the races with regard to weight.  I want solid, scientific, physiological evidence if possible. To me, it seems like a social construct.  Secondly, by using phrases like "small-boned" and "large-boned," I question the validity of the site--which is rather disheartening.

ha thats ridiculous- why does everyone think that africans have to be 'curvy' for lack of a better word. i know very skinny black girls with no boobs and very ample ones too- every race has a variety of body shapes. also that myth that all asians are naturally skinny is just that- a myth- there culture expects women to be a lot smaller and so they eat way way less- thats not nature- thats science!! if an asian women ate a western diet she would gain weight- as is the case for many cc posters that i have read!

lastly i wonder, being a mixed raced girl- wher exactly do i fit into this model! ha hilarious!!

 African-americans have higher bone mineral density than europeans and asians.

 Their skeleton weights more, irrespective of fat, muscle and other organs, so if you're trying to reach the same absolute weight you either need to diet away bone or become dangerously underweight. Neither proposition is particularily healthy.

I saw the link the above poster put on there and while interesting, it is important to remember that race is a social construct anyways--we made it. The best way to illustrate this point is this:

If you lined up the whitest person you could find and then lined up every other person in the world based on skin color down to the darkest person you could find, where do you dilineate between white and black (and brown, for that matter?) It's all relational, subjective and culturally based. So I have a big problem with comments like the one you referenced that puts all "African Americans" (or whites or Latinas, etc. etc.) in the same group because clearly, that group does not have clear defined borders anyway.

Original Post by melkor:

 African-americans have higher bone mineral density than europeans and asians.

 Their skeleton weights more, irrespective of fat, muscle and other organs, so if you're trying to reach the same absolute weight you either need to diet away bone or become dangerously underweight. Neither proposition is particularily healthy.

Thank you, I appreciate your contribution, but it still does not satisfy my query.  Take note of the standard deviation (SD) for each ethnic group.  Each group has a SD of 100+.  If you have ever partaken in chemistry and/or biology laboratory studies, you would know that a SD greater than 0.1-3.0% can prove problematic  to one's findings or final conclusion. 

Moreover, if you were to accept the site's research as fact and actually calculate the average bone weight of each ethnic group, you would find only a 1-5 pound difference.  Therefore, assuming it is acceptable for people of African origin to be over weight is a counter-productive fallacy--and this is why so many black women are dangerously over-weight.  False claims such as the ones propagated by not only CC but also Black culture in general, further perpetuates and encourages the detrimental social trend of obesity.

Original Post by erinw43:

I saw the link the above poster put on there and while interesting, it is important to remember that race is a social construct anyways--we made it. The best way to illustrate this point is this:

If you lined up the whitest person you could find and then lined up every other person in the world based on skin color down to the darkest person you could find, where do you dilineate between white and black (and brown, for that matter?) It's all relational, subjective and culturally based. So I have a big problem with comments like the one you referenced that puts all "African Americans" (or whites or Latinas, etc. etc.) in the same group because clearly, that group does not have clear defined borders anyway.

Good point. 

What don't you like about the phrases "small boned" and "large boned"?  Some people really do have more skeletal mass than others.  My sister,  for example, is only two inches taller than me, but her wrist circumference is significantly larger and her shoulders broader.  If we both got to the same BMI with the same %bodyfat, she'd look thinner - and could be "underweight" at a higher BMI than I would.

It'd be nice if there was some mention of muscularity in that statement, though, as a muscular person is never going to make it down to the low end of the BMI scale due to the higher density of muscle tissue.

Original Post by anasawh:

Original Post by melkor:

 African-americans have higher bone mineral density than europeans and asians.

 Their skeleton weights more, irrespective of fat, muscle and other organs, so if you're trying to reach the same absolute weight you either need to diet away bone or become dangerously underweight. Neither proposition is particularily healthy.

 

 

Thank you, I appreciate your contribution, but it still does not satisfy my query.  Take note of the standard deviation (SD) for each ethnic group.  Each group has a SD of 100+.  If you have ever partaken in chemistry and/or biology laboratory studies, you would know that a SD greater than 0.1-3.0% can prove problematic  to one's findings or final conclusion. 

Moreover, if you were to accept the site's research as fact and actually calculate the average bone weight of each ethnic group, you would find only a 1-5 pound difference.  Therefore, assuming it is acceptable for people of African origin to be over weight is a counter-productive fallacy--and this is why so many black women are dangerously over-weight.  False claims such as the ones propagated by not only CC but also Black culture in general, further perpetuates and encourages the detrimental social trend of obesity.

aw, come on.  nobody said that if your skin is "this" shade of brown, it's okay to have a BMI of 30.

there are plenty of people on this site and elsewhere who want to believe that they're the exception to the healthy BMI range (at both ends).  i haven't noticed any particular correlation with skin colour.  for the most part, people believe what they want to believe, regardless of their cultural heritage.

Original Post by susiecue:

It'd be nice if there was some mention of muscularity in that statement, though, as a muscular person is never going to make it down to the low end of the BMI scale due to the higher density of muscle tissue.

 something like this?

Body Mass Index (BMI) is a number representing your weight distribution and, for most, is a good quantifier to determine if you are overweight. If you have a lot of muscle mass, however, please be advised that you will likely have higher limits.

yeah, that's cut-and-pasted from the BMI tool page.

100% agreeing that RACE is a social construct...they don't say anything about African Americans.  They say African and Asian.  If you change your "bone structure" from medium boned to large, it doesn't say that you should weigh 80lbs more, its a slight difference to account for bone mass. 

To argue about the prominence of obesity in black people in America, you might want to shift the argment to a discussion of why there are a disproportionate number of lower class/low income blacks to whites, and how CLASS contributes to obesity (ie why is junk food so cheap?).

Original Post by anasawh:

Thank you, I appreciate your contribution, but it still does not satisfy my query.  Take note of the standard deviation (SD) for each ethnic group.  Each group has a SD of 100+.  If you have ever partaken in chemistry and/or biology laboratory studies, you would know that a SD greater than 0.1-3.0% can prove problematic  to one's findings or final conclusion. 

 

Actually, you're reading the data incorrectly. Standard deviation is a percentage, so it can't be over 100. The standard deviation number on the provided link was the bone density difference in each percentage of standard deviation.

On the original topic, the quotation also notes that significant variations occur among individuals regardless of race. Yes, race is a social construct, and yes, there is more variation within "racial groups" than across racial lines. And yes, we all know that BMI is not a very reliable scale, particularly for more muscular people or very tall people. But let's not go overboard. The gist of the quote is that there's significant variation and we can't all be a BMI of 20. Personally, I don't find it offensive.

(double post)

another thing is asia & africa are very very very big continents with lots of diversity. so who knows maybe there are africans & asians from only one particular (or so) regions where this applies. but its very questionable that you can apply this to everyone on such big continents where migration to other areas & isolation from other areas have been going on for hundreds of years.

edit: actually make that thousands of years. same with caucasian

I just re-read the passage 3 times, just to make sure I wasn't missing something. It clearly says there is variation. This leads me to the conclusion that someone offended by it is likely very sensitive, at least to any mention of race, and offended very easily when race is mentioned at all.

well so far no one has claimed any offense just questioning the article.

Original Post by octo-luv:

well so far no one has claimed any offense just questioning the article.

Please see title of thread.

Original Post by corduroyfirekills3:

Original Post by octo-luv:

well so far no one has claimed any offense just questioning the article.

Please see title of thread.

ah ok i guess but that sounded more like just some sort of disclaimer warning to me. like how they have in the beginning of films. i guess that was just my take on it.

Original Post by anasawh:

," I question the validity of the site--which is rather disheartening.

 Hi Anasaeh,

While I am not going to speak to your original question, I will speak to your above comment.  Since you are relatively new to this site I truly wish that you would dig a little deeper, and perhaps not have made judgement in less than 2 weeks time,  I think if you stay around you will find a lot of fantastic people with great info to share, a shoulder to cry on,  support by people who are going through the same things you are, and last but not least some great education for leading a healthier life style.    I am not quite sure where the quote you are referring to came from, but I am sure that it was not meant to be offensive, racist or hurtful to anyone.  Our moderators don't allow that.  Give this chance if you are really here to move into a different lifestyle.  I came upon this website by wondering the web,  I will be forever grateful that I did.  Best of Luck whatever or wherever you go.

Where did you find this?  I've been here since Jan 2006, and never saw it before.  If you could provide a link to the page it would help.

If there is a link hidden somewhere in the many responses, I do apologize for asking for it again.  I'd like to bring it to the attention of the site founders.

It's what the WHO guidelines say - and statistical tools for assaying populations are notoriously inaccurate when applied to individuals.

Considerable variation exists among individuals regardless of race."

The OP posted this in her thread.  I see nothing offensive about anything that is written.