Socialized Health Care in the USA-discuss

Canada has the longest wait times for specialist medical care in the industrialized world.  Read it here.

Judging by the article you linked to, I would say that we (U.S.) should definitely have universal ("socialized") health care -- we should just run it better than the Canadians apparently do.

"By comparison, seven developed nations--Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Japan, Luxembourg, and Switzerland --maintain universal access health insurance programs that deliver access to health care without queues for treatment."

Sounds pretty sweet to me; just looks like Canada may not have figured out how to pull it off well.

There are no wait times for those with private health insurance. So those who want it can have it, but otherwise, everyone deserves free healthcare.

Actually, I'd have to "wait" longer in the US because I couldn't afford healthcare so it would take forever to get help.  So...there ya go.

And no, I did not qualify for Medicare/caid.  I tried.  So if I were sick or injured I could either take out a loan or just tough it out.

Im all for it. Like Jewels, I would be completely screwed if I got sick or injured right now.

Not to be rude but I cant believe there are so many Americans (besides insurance company CEOs, natch) who buy the notion that FREE HEATHCARE is somehow BAD for them.

PS - I say this as a pre-med student who would much rather take a slight pay reduction than spend all of my time as a doctor fighting against insurance companies who dont think my patients "deserve" or "qualify for" the treatments and procedures that I prescribe for them to get better.

People are afraid that the Government will start making the decisions on who deserves what treatments.  In the States if your insurance won't cover it you can still get whatever treatment done and pay for it out of your own pocket.  In Canada, as far as I know, if for some freak reason the government made the decision that you're unable to receive a certain treatment you can't get it. Unless you go to the States. 

People also tend to have the "I'm not paying for my neighbor to have his leg amputated because he wouldn't take his diabetes meds" mentality.

Or in other words "me me me me me."

Plenty of Canadians have that mentality too.

Edited to add: I just skimmed the article so I don't know if it mentions this, but if it's a life and death situation you're in to the Doc's office in no time flat.  Husband's Dad recently had a scary heart episode and he was at the heart specialist the next day.  But if I screwed up a tendon or something I'd have to wait my turn to see a specialist as it's not a matter of life and death.

Sorry I keep blabermouthing, but I wonder if these wait times have to do with many Doctor's deciding to take up business south of the border?  That's not exactly a reflection on socialized medicine being sucky here.  It just shows that some folks aren't happy with the "benefits" they recieve in Canada.

Canada is one country of many that have UHC. Can't compare with just 1 country when the other countries are doing fine. Sweden also has UHC (wasn't listed).

I agree with cpt. Canada isn't the only country with UHC. Other countries are making it work just fine. I live in South Korea. We have UHC. I've never had to wait for a doctor (not even a specialist). Seems to run like clockwork here... Costs are cheap ($8 doctor visits, $3-5 prescriptions) so some of the cost is paid by the patient but it's very, very minimal. 

Original Post by apfelwein:

Canada has the longest wait times for specialist medical care in the industrialized world.  Read it here.

i waited a whopping five weeks for the medically indicated but elective surgery i had last week.  it took about three months to get in with my obgyn the first time (with an across-health authority referral), but i've seen her probably eight times in the year and a half since.  and when i had complications from my surgery, i saw another specialist within hours.

ugent cases are seen first.  is that a problem?  i'm thinking that's only a problem for people with plenty of cash who are used to buying their way to the front of the line.

edit: just want to add that, as always, it's important to consider your sources.  calgary is one of the most conservative, big-business oriented cities in canada, and the province of alberta has been slashing social services and privatizing the safety net for a decade.  the Herald isn't exactly a bastion of socialism.

There is no such thing as FREE health care.  There's no such thing as free anything.  It's paid for somehow.  Here in Germany it's paid through taxes - up to ~50% income tax, 7% sales tax on basic food items, and 19.5% sales tax on everything else.

So when Joe Blow is out of work and unable to pay for insurance (or rent, child care, car payments, food, etc.), I/you pay for his life.  Heck, if he can't pay child support, I/you even pay for that.

Back to health care....  As for no wait, that's true in Germany if you opt for the private (more costly) insurance as opposed to the state insurance.  I'm lucky enough to have the private option, but I've made next-day appointments with docs who supposedly were booked full for other people.  When I arrive, I'm almost always walked straight back to an exam room... past the people who are sitting in the waiting room.  This is actually illegal behavior on the doc's part, but it obviously happens.

Don't believe everything you read in a 'news' article.

I would glady pay 5% more in taxes if it meant everyone in the US could get 2x a year teeth cleanings and free fillings.. (it probalby wouldn't even cost that much, probalby 2% in more taxes).  A dollar of prevention is worth $100 of curative care.  Literally.  If we're the greatest country in the world, we shouldn't have anyone die due to infection of bad teeth.

As it is, there are people afraid to go to the dentist who can even afford it but don't take advantage of their health plans that cover it.  If everyone would go twice a year, on our tax dollars, and take care of their dental health, it would save a lot of money in the long run, far more than it would cost to fix.

Original Post by azirra:

Not to be rude but I cant believe there are so many Americans (besides insurance company CEOs, natch) who buy the notion that FREE HEATHCARE is somehow BAD for them.

Could not have said it better myself.  I am lucky enough now, after years of being uninsured, to have great health insurance through my employer (a university), but I would give up my insurance in a heartbeat for UHC if it meant everyone could get the health services they need.

Original Post by jenningermany:

So when Joe Blow is out of work and unable to pay for insurance (or rent, child care, car payments, food, etc.), I/you pay for his life.  Heck, if he can't pay child support, I/you even pay for that.

 which is as it should be.

Original Post by azirra:

Not to be rude but I cant believe there are so many Americans (besides insurance company CEOs, natch) who buy the notion that FREE HEATHCARE is somehow BAD for them.

 Agree. Insurance companies see the writing on the wall, I'm thinking. Suddenly the fact that I am a woman no longer means I should pay double what a man pays.

Original Post by jewelsmcblah:

Sorry I keep blabermouthing, but I wonder if these wait times have to do with many Doctor's deciding to take up business south of the border?  That's not exactly a reflection on socialized medicine being sucky here.  It just shows that some folks aren't happy with the "benefits" they recieve in Canada.

I think it's because ... if you didn't have to go through those long, bitterly cold winters... why would you?

Doctors can choose to live anywhere they want to.

So, to reduce the wait time for specialists, Canada needs to figure out how to make Canada a more attractive place for a doctor to want to live.  Or just wait it out - with global warming, everyone will probably be moving to Canada in the next few decades.

Original Post by kathygator:

Original Post by jenningermany:

So when Joe Blow is out of work and unable to pay for insurance (or rent, child care, car payments, food, etc.), I/you pay for his life.  Heck, if he can't pay child support, I/you even pay for that.

 which is as it should be.

I can't afford to pay my credit card bill this month, will you send me some money Kathy? 

No. But then your kids won't starve and become homeless if you blow off your credit card payment, Sully.

We're working on keeping them here and making it easier for foreign doctors to start practicing.

The winters aren't all that bad.

Original Post by kathygator:

No. But then your kids won't starve and become homeless if you blow off your credit card payment, Sully.

If my credit card is maxed out how am I supposed to buy food for my kids?

Send money now please. 

Maxed out credit card? Starving kids? Thank goodness there is state aid available (paid for by I/you).