Has Society become Prejudice against Men?

Has women's Liberation gone too far in the favour of women?

I am not talking about the woman's right to do or don't do what she wants with her life and the right to equal pay for doing the same job.

But are men now affraid to be men if they want to be, scared to speak up for fear of recrimination.

They have become the butt of many jokes all you have to do is watch tv in many programmes they are portrayed as the idiot. 

The justice system: some 90% of women are now guaranteed to get custody of the kids, the house, car and a large chunk of his pay check.

A very large % of violence in the home is actually against men, but does not hit the headlines the way it does for women.

Have we now displaced men from any position in our society?

Basic equality aside is it now time for women to stop the want, want, want, give, give, give me! and to start giving back to men the respect we demand they give us.

Has societies attitude towards men contributed to the massive increase over the years in violent crime against children and women.

Are we building a hatred untold against women with our give us half the cake but we take the lot attitude.

Just curious :D

'a very large % of violence in the home is actually against men'

um. that is not true. whilst it is true that there is violence against men in domestic situations that could do with alot more help, the percentage of women being hurt is FAR greater than men.

i personally think that with how far women have come, and how far we still have to go (especially in the middle east etc), this sort of agressive girl stuff is good.

its seen as socially unacceptable for girls to be agressive (and thats one of the reasons i started cutting, to let agression out), so in a way i think its good for women to be able to stand up for themselves at last, in court and such.

however, it goes too far...eg the lily allan 'smile' video. i loved it on first watch (big fan of lily), but then i thought, god, if that was a woman being beaten up by chavs etc by a man, how would i feel about it...

in answer to your question...perhaps in some ways its gone into super pc-ness, but when you think of how women have been treated for so long...i think we desrve it.

The % of domestic violence is not a clear picture, because less men report it apart from few when that violence reaches the need for hospital treatment...

"don't be such a wimp" "what a ****" to mention a couple of names men are labelled with should they complain if a women miss treats them.

And domestic abuse takes many forms it's not just physical.

Correct me if I have misunderstood but your reply reads to me like it is ok for us to now treat men the way they used to treat us....this is just wrong!

I feel there is a very significant difference between being assertive and being aggressive, the first is acceptable the second is not.

I am not going down the middle east road, this topic is about our society where women's liberation is actively in place.

i personally wouldnt treat a guy with any sort of name calling or anything. 

i like my guys to be sensitive (proably because im bi) and caring. i dont see fear or pain as being a wimp at all. 

but i really do think that more violence is against women, even with the shame involved with men seeking help.

i re-read my post and it does sounds like im condoning it, and thats wrong. im not, i think basically mutual respect is needed. with that, you can conquer anything. 

i think aggression is healthy. i couldnt stand it if my partner couldnt have a fight with me (verbal that is...). im a naturally agressive person. but when the aggression turns onesided and nasty and dosnt heal...well thats not right.

Men aren't taken as seriously when they report domestic violence or stalking (if they do, considering the stigma) because they're supposed to be tough, strong, and capable. It's similar to the reason a women gets custody. She's 'nurturing', and he can be a better breadwinner. We're conditioned to believe that men can't take care of kids, and women can't provide as well because they're delicate. Society regards men as a sect who do not need protection the same way as their female counterparts do. This isn't good, since crazy/dangerous doesn't have a gender.

That being said, abuse is not the same between genders. An irate man is a way bigger threat to his wife than a woman to her husband because men have a physical advantage. And like I said before, they're expected to be tough, and thus immune to emotional abuse.

So is society prejudiced against men? Definitely. There are other examples we could get into too. But society is prejudiced against everyone. I don't think that men have been marginalized by the liberation of women, just a lot of our archaic ideas about gender roles have stayed the same and, as they're applied to modern life, we're gradually realizing that they're stupid. 

god, its so annoying when you see someone say exactly what you wanted to say but couldnt articulate properly! ugh. im too tired to write properly.

well done, and i agree.

Original Post by andie-1:

Have we now displaced men from any position in our society?

What "positions in society" are you talking about?  

Our local PTO?  Yeah - it's definitely present in the public school system, which seems to be female centric when it comes to childhood education.  However, as a working mother, the assumption of the female being the sole handler of anything child related has hit me too. (Um, no, I can't attend meetings at 2 in the afternoon - I'm at work!)

Men seem to be affected more by layoffs, but I don't think it's specifically due to gender or "women's liberation" - industries that are historically male dominated have taken more of a financial hit.

I haven't met any men that are afraid to "speak up", although I'm interested as to what you're referring.  "Speak up" on what, exactly?  What "manly" topics face recriminations?

I totally get what you're saying about TV, something that is a major pet peeve of my hubby's, but he will still chuckle at epitomes of patriarchal idiocy:  Family Guy or The Simpsons.  Shows in which the man is consistently portrayed as the dolt don't stay on the air just because they get all their ratings from female viewers.  Just sayin'...

There are obviously some ill feelings towards women by some men, but how much "liberation" has played into it, I don't know.  Take the incident in the Pittsburgh health club.  I mean, while the guy may have felt rejected and marginalized, women sure as hell didn't deserve to die for it.

While I agree that neither gender should be a slave to stereotypes or popular opinion, we need to be careful of letting "displacement', real or perceived, being used as an excuse for unacceptable behavior.

Original Post by sibylisvain:

That being said, abuse is not the same between genders. An irate man is a way bigger threat to his wife than a woman to her husband because men have a physical advantage. And like I said before, they're expected to be tough, and thus immune to emotional abuse.

 

Not always true, women might be generally shorter or  weigh less but often times they use objects. My ex-step-mother threw a rock at my dads head, randomly hit him,she fired a pistol at him once( and no the neighbors didn't think it strange we lived out in the sticks). I'm told the violence towards him got worse after I moved in with my mom. That woman was shorter than him but she outweighed him and she dominated the household till he asked for a divorce.

I would say Feminism has displaced men from their long held place. Maybe that's a good thing. Some men don't think it is. I'm not sure I'm one of them.

It's interesting.. because Feminism HAS closed some doors to men, without any doubt. The Donna Reed Dad, the one who works 9 to 5 and is super nice to his wife who's worked all day and continues to work while he picks up a newspaper and reads it, that's over. I doubt you'll ever see Men in that light again.

But other doors are open now. As a husband of a pregnant wife, I'm not being shoved out of the OBGyn office if I want to know what's going on with OUR child (not her child, no matter whose body it's in, OUR Child.) Just as important, I won't be shut out of the hospital when I want to be there for the birth.

Men's position in society has changed and keeps changing.

I'm sitting here listening to Lily Allen's "It's Not Fair" the other day and I'm thinking to myself.. you know 50 years ago, no woman would DARE demand that she get at least as good as she gives in the bedroom. Women were virgin whores, expect to be clean and nonsexual until marriage and then expected to be able to please her husband.

I think, in time, the law will catch up with where society is going and you may see men start getting custody more often. I'd like to see that happen, because it's arguable in any given situation that the woman is more capable of raising and nuturing a child than a man is. Especially given the changing roles of men, not just as the provider, but also the guy working together WITH MOM to raise the kids, do the chores and keep things sane.

So, in short, to answer your question.. I think Feminism has Displaced Men, but not from society as a whole. Doors have closed. New doors have opened. And it'll take time for the new roles to really cement in place, but I think, as a whole, it's better in the long run that we undergo these changes in traditional roles.

And I don't think it's fair to blame feminism as a whole for the rise in abuse, I'm sure it's an excuse to some, but I don't think it's reality. I'd be likely to question if it isn't just that more women are reporting abuse, now that it's OK to accept that maybe their husband isn't necessarily looking out for her best interest. I'm sure someone much more versed in this than I will be able to offer an explanation

Original Post by santonacci:

Original Post by andie-1:

Have we now displaced men from any position in our society?

There are obviously some ill feelings towards women by some men, but how much "liberation" has played into it, I don't know.  Take the incident in the Pittsburgh health club.  I mean, while the guy may have felt rejected and marginalized, women sure as hell didn't deserve to die for it.

The thing with this is.. this person was disturbed. His unhappiness with women was, I think, an excuse to kill, not a reason. His being disturbed and lacking the moral.. compass to understand that killing isn't acceptable no matter how upset one might get is the only reason he killed.

I agree with the following points: men are the butts of jokes on tv, seem to get unfairly treated in custody disputes; and most Western education systems are female-centric.

However I totally disagree that a very large % of violence is against men. Does it happen? Of course. Is it under-reported? Undoubtedly. But the majority of domestic violence is still perpetrated by men, against women.

Have we now displaced men from any position in our society?

No. They are still fathers, husbands and sons. And they still bring in more pay and get higher positions than your average woman in most industries.

Basic equality aside is it now time for women to stop the want, want, want, give, give, give me! and to start giving back to men the respect we demand they give us.

Men are no less respected than women. Most women are also socially conditioned to give to others, not take. It's pretty common to be raised in a household where women do most of the housework and caring duties; and to learn this is normal. Demanding that workloads are evenly split can induce feelings of guilt. I'm not trying to say that this holds for every woman, but I'm positive it's way more common than the me-me-me attitude.

Has societies attitude towards men contributed to the massive increase over the years in violent crime against children and women.

No. Perhaps the general breakdown of many modern communities has, but not society's attitude towards men. After all, women have long been the underdog - they didn't go around bashing men and kids because of it.

In general, I think people who think women have total equality with men have been misled, and in many areas we still have some way to go.

double post

Original Post by andie-1:

But are men now affraid to be men if they want to be, scared to speak up for fear of recrimination.

i don't think the the fear of speaking one's mind is gender specific.

Original Post by andie-1:

They have become the butt of many jokes all you have to do is watch tv in many programmes they are portrayed as the idiot. 

i'll bet 90% of the people who write those jokes are male.  and most of those jokes are around how incompetent men are in domestic situations.  not only is this salesmanship, but on the off-chance that a few people buy into those stereotypes, it relieves men of the responsibility of being anything other than idiots.

Original Post by andie-1:

The justice system: some 90% of women are now guaranteed to get custody of the kids, the house, car and a large chunk of his pay check.

the justice system works on precedent, so it's always behind the times.  women usually get the kids, this is true.  as far as the financial and material resources, i don't think that it's unfair for the home and a good chunk of the cash to go with the primary caregiver to the children, and--surprise--that's still almost always the mother.

Original Post by andie-1:

Have we now displaced men from any position in our society?

only from the voluntary, low-paying, front-line, caregiving, and domestic positions, and they didn't want those in the first place.  men still dominate the top levels of virtually every organization on the planet, including most of those which are staffed mostly by women and which serve mostly women.

Original Post by andie-1:

Basic equality aside is it now time for women to stop the want, want, want, give, give, give me! and to start giving back to men the respect we demand they give us.

nope.  i still want want want.  don't you?  if not, you should, because you can bet that men still do.

Original Post by andie-1:

Has societies attitude towards men contributed to the massive increase over the years in violent crime against children and women.

no.  violence against women and children (and, occasionally, men - usually perpetrated by other men) has always been there, and probably hasn't increased.  it's just that until fairly recently, it was considered a private matter rather than a criminal one.

you've really missed the boat here, andie.  unless you're just trying to be controversial.

Original Post by hkellick:

The thing with this is.. this person was disturbed. 

Well, of course, however, the guy did flat out express in his blog it was because of years of rejection, and did specifically target women.  "Displacement" was indeed an excuse, but was it also part of the reason.

However, even if the women's liberation movement was a real factor, that doesn't discredit it, or mean that women are suddenly obligated to fall back in 50's roles and accept the advances of every 45 year old with a chip on his shoulder.  

I don't care how "displaced" a man might feel - if they intentionally harm someone outside of defense, "It's all the feminists' fault" just doesn't fly.

Lovely. I come from a thread where a girl is being shamed and lied about simply for refusing to sleep with some guy, to a bunch of MRA propaganda about "Oh noes what about teh mens feminism is going too far! B**** won't make me a sammich no more I'm eeeeemmmmaaaasculllated!!!!"

Custody laws vary from state to state. While it's true that men can be abused, it's serious and they face stigma for reporting it, there are still statistically more women being physically abused, sexually assaulted, etc.. And when was the last time you saw a woman shoot up a gym full of men because she felt entitled to get laid? Why do I constantly pick up the paper and see some crime of "passion"(right.) news story about a guy murdering a woman, and sometimes her children, because she broke up with him/never slept with him at all, etc.

Most of the leaders and CEO's--not all but the majority--are still men. I see a male president, a male governor, a male mayor where I am. Nobody displaced anyone from anything.

P.S. - life is no cabaret I LOVE your screen name! Dresden Dolls!!!

One more thing, about the whole tv trope where men are idiots--yeah that's true, but can I say while everyone talks about Homer Simpson being an idiot I think Marge is an idiot as well? Am I the only one who thinks that?

you've really missed the boat here, andie.  unless you're just trying to be controversial.

No, it was the topic of a talk show on the BBC this morning and it was very interesting. However there wasn't such a one sided view. As far as i can see this is all about women....surprise.

Surprised that feminism is about women?

"Auntie Tom"?

Original Post by coffincritter:

Surprised that feminism is about women?

"Auntie Tom"?

 

The topic is about Men and how if at all feminism has effected them, not about how all the feminist don't think it has.

I think that men as men are a lot less respected because of feminism.  By which I mean, men as providers, protectors, and heads of families.

And, by the same token, I think feminism has done a huge disservice to women.  By taking men out of their dominant roles, it's excused them from their caretaking responsibilities.  Used to be that a boy who got a girl pregnant would be under enormous pressure to "do the right thing" - namely, shoulder the responsibility of providing for and raising a family.  Today, about half of all children are born to single mothers.  Over 70% of African-american children are born to single mothers.  Is society really better off this way?

One area where women have completely supplanted men is in childbearing decisions.  A pregnant woman has the sole and exclusive right to decide whether she is going to bear the child or abort it.  The implications of her decision have an enormous impact on the rights and responsibilities of the father ... yet he has no recognized role in making that decision.