Soy: am I crazy?

I've had two meat-eating friends give up on soy this week. One friend, a man, told me last night that he thinks soy is making him fat, and my other friend told me that her doctor told her to stop, as a precautionary move to prevent breast lumps. Is there any evidence you guys know of that proves any of this? I feel like I'm crazy to not defend soy, from what I've read, but maybe I'm wrong?

I have heard to avoid processed and non-organic soy.

Soy contains phyto-estrogens. Depending on your hormonal balance, soy may have an effect on weight, mood, and lot of other things. In Japan, for instance, women generally have very easy  menopause - almost no symptoms - and daily soy in the diet (miso, tofu, soy sauce, etc) is considered a factor.

Have you felt any soy changes?

I can't say I have.  I try not to overdo the soy though, I'll have some soy milk with my cereal or oatmeal and maybe some tofu once a week.

Not to make light of my male friend, but he thinks his breasts are growing due to his soy intake. Honestly, I think the culprit might be, oh, copious quantities of PBR, but he says soy. He's our roommate, so I can vouch for the "copious amounts" part. Maybe they should do a study on PBR.

Ha ha!

Actually, though, I think I have read about soy causing men to develop breast tissue.  Can't speak to the amount of soy required, though.  Plus there is a difference between actual breast tissue and just fat man boobs.

Sounds like an interesting experiment in the works!

The previous poster was quite correct, soy is a phyto-estrogen.

Given all the other (unintentional) xenoestrogens in our daily diet, it can become difficult for the body to handle excessive amounts of estrogen and clear them efficiently. Granted, plant-based versions have much shorter half-lives, but with the significantly longer half-lives of more unnatural ones (i.e. chemicals such as dioxin), it can be a wise idea to limit soy products so as to lessen your body's workload. (I believe fermented soy products are also better in this regard?) This "threshold" issue is especially true for those suffering from estrogen-dominance symptoms, such as your friend's recent complaints.

That said, alcohol, in excess, can also have estrogenic effects on the body, so perhaps his problem is something of a two-fold issue?

Hahaha! He's cursed!

Damnit, I wish MY boobs would grow thanks to my soy intake!  I'm down a cup size thanks to weight loss and that is NOT good.  :-P

Ah, the endless soy debate.  I read an article a few months back that talked about the soy question and gave a list of soy products that are better and those that are worse.  Miso is the best type of soy and other organic soy products should be ok.  The article said that soy milk is not great because of the level of processing that takes place and because it is made from the by products of other soy products.  They also warned against soy protein isolates for the same reason.

I for one will say that I started drinking a protein shake in the mornings, 3 tablespoons of a soy protein isolate, 1 cup unsweetened soy milk and frozen berries.  It's yummy and fill me up til lunch time.  But the reason I started in the first place was because I was diagnosed with fibroids which were causing me a lot of pain and discomfort among other things.  Those symptoms have disapeared now with my increased intake of soy.  After reading the article I reduced the number of shakes per week to around 3 or 4 but I don't want to tempt fate so I'm going to keep it in my diet.   My two cents!

I've read that soy contains certain enzyme inhibitors so excessive consumptions can actually cause a decrease in protein digestion and lead to protein deficiencies. Hmmm.... But there are so many soy alternatives now though like hemp, certain grains like quinoa, seiten, etc. so it's not nearly as necessary as it was a few years ago, I don't think.  (If you think about it that's kind of hilarious because soy was supposed to be the ultimate meat/animal product alternative and now it needs an alternative...funny right? Maybe not....)

Anyways, madetoshine, I hear you. I am horrendously pear-shaped so if my "girls" disappear I'm going to be pissed...and freakish looking :/

I read an article saying that the healthy diets of the East are based mostly on fermented soy, such as miso and tempeh and not on unfermented soy, such as soy milk, formulas and bars in health food stores. It is the unfermented soy that is related to an increased risk of breast cancer and thyroid disorders, even though it's still promoted by the soy industry as being healthy, there is practically zero intake of these types of unfermented soy products in Eastern/Asian countries.

Yes, now I remember that the better soy is the unfermented kind, that's what that article said.  Are there any other unfermented soy products other than miso and tempeh?  I'd like to start replacing my soy with the better choice but I'm not sure how.  Any ideas?

be careful, a lot of those studies stressing the evils of soy are funded by, surprise surprise, the dairy industries. so check who funded/ran the study. if any dairy company was involved, throw out the results.

I think soy is one of those "in moderation" types of foods. I don't know about lumps and weight gain, but I do know that it is a "high oxylate" food which can contribute to kidney stones, particular in TVP form. Since I had a kidney stone recently, I've been a little paranoid about the oxylate stuff, but drinking lots of water can help to keep the oxylate from accumulating in the kidney and forming stones. So... not quite what you asked, but drink lots of water especially if you're eating lots of soy!

I totally agree with Sarah - there's a lot of bias behind the studies into both the soy and dairy industries, with each industry having it's own agenda so you really have to check carefully when you read an article. That said, personally I don't think I'll be eating tofu as a main food on a daily basis as I'm not convinced it's safe, but then I'm pretty conservative about these things (e.g. don't eat GM foods). Each person has to do the reading and decide for themselves.

 

I've been reading a book: The Whole Soy Story

There's a lot of alarming information in this book, which makes pretty good sense to me.  The author states that Tofu was created from the waste product (solids) left over from extracting soy oil.  It was then marketed to the health conscious as a meat alternative to shed itself the image of food for the poverty stricken/third world countries.

I could just see corporate America looking to make a buck off what was previously a waste product.

Soy also contains a number of anti-nutrients which can inhibit the absorption of some nutrients.

Some soy products are ok to eat, primarily the fermented ones as certain molds and bacteria are used to break down some of the anti-nutrients.  But, personally, I'd rather not take my chances.  Whole grains have more protein, all the fiber, and vitamins.

I've stopped all consumption of soy products.  I now make my own nut milks, which is quite easy to do.  And, frankly, I find they're much tastier than soy milk and I know exactly what goes in it... raw nuts and R.O. filtered water.

 

 

Tofu was invented in China in about 900 a.d., long before there was an industry for soybean oil.

Vegetarian Times had an article about soy not too long ago.  It pointed out that having phytoestrogens block your own estrogens is not necessarily a bad thing, since estrogen is linked with cancer and phytoestrogens are generally much weaker.  It also suggested that soy reduces the risk of fibroids, such as lumps in the breasts.  Not sure what studies they relied on, but I do think there is a lot we don't know about soy at this point.

I'm a guy, so I hope I don't get lumps in my breasts, because that would mean I would have first have to have grown them. Haha. Seriously, I hope you're right on that. I don't want anyone to be adversely affected by eating what they are told is health food.

I mis-quoted the author in my previous post. Thank you for correcting me. I've gone back and re-read the material. The following are passages from the book The Whole Soy Story:

"600AD: Early forms of Miso and Tofu are brought to Japan with the Buddhist missionaries." So, you're probably correct in stating "Tofu (as we know it today) was invented in China in about 900 a.d."

What I was thinking of was the following passages from The Whole Soy Story (page 25):

"1928: First soy infant formula developed in China. The very first soy formula was invented by a Baltimore Pediatrician in 1909

"Post World War II: American technology and marketing bring highly processed soyfoods made with soy flour, soy protein isolate soy protein concentrate, and textured vegetable protein ingredients to China, Japan, and other countries."

For me it comes down to soy milk, nut milk, and cow milk

cow milk is out cause it grosses me out even more than beef. I just picture this cow hooked up to a gross dirty milking machine...with cow milk spraying everywhere then its put into milk containers. eww or I picture me putting my lips on a cow's nipple...double eww. So I havent had cow milk in ages

Soy I actually like, the health concerns do worry me but a lot of asian cultures eat a ton of soy and they are healthy enough so it cant be too bad.

I prefer nut milk...but nuts are expensive and I am on a budget...so right now Im happy with my soy