Stem Cell...

What are your thoughts...... 

do you think it should be allowed?

should embryonic stem cell  be allowed, if not why not?

littleinfoonstemcell  

I am all for it. I see no reason it shouldnt be funded if it will help ill people in the long run. Just as its not being used for anything bad.

I am all for it. I see no reason it shouldnt be funded if it will help ill people in the long run. Just as its not being used for anything bad.

Original Post by amethystgirl:

The only difference is that the desire to keep people from driving under 60mph isn't based on ideology, nor is preventing people from doing so depriving others of the chance to be treated for serious, life-changing or life-threatening diseases.

and i guess they don't do that anymore because we have speed limits in NC of 70 mph and we still get federal transportation dollars

been like this for at least the past 10 years

Ok guys..I was giving one example on how the government has always tried to hold the states by the purse strings. Here is a brief from 1989 (I know that was a long time ago, however I don't think rulings from the supreme court have an expiration date) of a case going to the supreme court that questioned:

Whether the federal statute requiring States to adopt a maximum
speed limit as a condition for receipt of federal highway funds is
constitutional.

So...shouldn't the supreme court be blamed for allowing the Federal Government to blackmail the states?

...the Court stated that Congress must condition its grants
"'unambiguously . . ., enabl(ing) the States to exercise their choice
knowingly, cognizant of the consequences of their participation.'"...

Ok...I'm done being argumentive....especially since I agree with lifting the ban on stem cell research :)

i don't disagree with you.  they're still doing it.  that's why the drinking age is 21.  because they will withhold transportation money if a state lowered the drinking age.

there's a difference with stem cell research in that the government was "blackmailing" or controlling, i think is more appropriate, what private money could be spent on in a lab that was receiving federal funds for other research, not what state money could be spent on

also, the reasoning is different -- in one case they control us because of what the data show about public safety (and what the insurance lobby wants); in the other case they control us because they believe that research done on a blastocyst is immoral (and their religious supporters believe the same)

but it is in the same pattern of controlling what we can or can't do.  :)

I'm not sure of the exact details of the bill (or whatever it's called), but stem cell research doesn't just apply to fetuses (feti?) and also doesn't just apply to humans, stem cell research funding bans also limited the amount of research that could be done with any stem cells.  I can't imagine why doing research with a mouse's stem cells or a 40 year old man's is any different than using any other cells.  As as for a fetus, as sad as it is to have a fetus that is unwanted by the 'parents' it is even more sad to not use that garbage dump of a situation for something good.  I think stem cell research is making the most of a bad situation, plus I think it will help make abortions safer for women that must choose to do so, which may stop other, more barbaric procedures.

So, I'm pretty happy about the reversal of the ban and I'm frustrated with the people that think it's horrible and unethical, the same people that believe that being up on their 'moral' high horse makes them immune to hardships and disease.

Is this why people oppose embryonic stem cell research?  Because people think that a fetus has been aborted and its cells taken for research?

I just want to make clear that that is not how embryonic stem cells are obtained.   They are usually obtained from a blastocyst (not a fetus). 

The blastocyst is the structure formed in early embryogenesis, after the formation of the blastocoel, but before implantation.

It possesses an inner cell mass, or embryoblast which subsequently forms the embryo proper, and an outer layer of cells, or trophoblast which later forms the placenta. The human blastocyst arises after compaction and comprises 70-100 cells. It is preceded by a zygote, the fertilized egg cell.  Blastocyst formation begins at day 5 in humans.

They are what is left over after an in vitro fertilization procedure. 

Info about stem cells from religious tolerance.org

every sperm is sacred, nomo

Original Post by pgeorgian:

every sperm is sacred, nomo

Then aren't all guys going to hell?

Original Post by amethystgirl:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

every sperm is sacred, nomo

Then aren't all guys going to hell?

heh.  i'm just glad we don't have that problem ;)

Original Post by amethystgirl:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

every sperm is sacred, nomo

Then aren't all guys going to hell?

 If A, then B.  Yep!  ::giggle::

I think its great!...in theory...its the looming truth that eventually human nature is to abuse of all good things....thats the problem!

Also if were no longer dying it creates an imbalance beween those who can afford it and those who cant...not to mention the risk of over population....

If we can somehow respect the powere in this ability then it can be fantastic! but what are the odds of it being used to help those outside inside and outside of the us who cant aford it?

It hink the sad future holds little more than the wealthy living forever, cloning themselves and those in need without the funds exactly where they are right now:(

I'm glad the ban was lifted, but am more pleased with the idea of returning some credibility to research instead of letting 'the decider' tell us what the findings are. 

I'm surprised at all the comments that there has been no progress in using stem cells for the treatment of disease.  True, there has been nothing much done in the United States.

Since other countries have been doing embrionic stem cell research for years, there have been breakthroughs there.  Rich people can travel to other countries for stem cell procedures that are successful.  American scientists are relocating and we are losing our best brains.

Meanwhile, the USA stagnates for lack of funding and lack of support.  We're way behind the rest of the world now.  How does it feel to be last, after being first in just about everything up until the Reagan/Bush takeover of our democracy and suppression of science in favor of ideology?  Pretty lousy!

PS:  treating diseases like diabetes and parkinsons is far different from cloning.  Nobody is cloning anything in this research. 

Seems like everyone here is happy about stem-cell research...kind of a boring discussion without someone brave enough to say they do not agree ! But they probably dare not. There is an article on MSN with a livelier, more diverse discussion going on.

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/articlepa ge.aspx?cp-documentid=100234420&gt1=31036 &ucpg=2#uc2Lst

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by amethystgirl:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

every sperm is sacred, nomo

Then aren't all guys going to hell?

heh.  i'm just glad we don't have that problem ;)

 Every egg is sacred as well.  Menses is a Sin.

Original Post by trhawley:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by amethystgirl:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

every sperm is sacred, nomo

Then aren't all guys going to hell?

heh.  i'm just glad we don't have that problem ;)

 Every egg is sacred as well.  Menses is a Sin.

So if I'm on the pill, I don't release an egg... does that mean being on the pill is less sinful than not being on the pill and not being pregnant?

For that matter, does that mean being a (menstruating) virgin is more sinful than being pregnant?

Original Post by amethystgirl:

Original Post by trhawley:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by amethystgirl:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

every sperm is sacred, nomo

Then aren't all guys going to hell?

heh.  i'm just glad we don't have that problem ;)

 Every egg is sacred as well.  Menses is a Sin.

So if I'm on the pill, I don't release an egg... does that mean being on the pill is less sinful than not being on the pill and not being pregnant?  No the Pill is the ultimate sin.

For that matter, does that mean being a (menstruating) virgin is more sinful than being pregnant? Yes, of course.

Original Post by amethystgirl:

So if I'm on the pill, I don't release an egg... does that mean being on the pill is less sinful than not being on the pill and not being pregnant?

 When you die, all your unfertilized eggs count as people you murdered.

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by amethystgirl:

So if I'm on the pill, I don't release an egg... does that mean being on the pill is less sinful than not being on the pill and not being pregnant?

 When you die, all your unfertilized eggs count as people you murdered.

I think I'm still on a higher moral ground than you, with all your unfertilizing sperm. Unless there are a lot of lil Sullys running around.

okay...even though this post is going towards a very silly side...I just wanted to add to it (in a serious way)....THANK YOU people of Calorie Count....it was really relieving to find a group of people who support embryonic stem cell research and understand the benefits of it.  I am so happy the ban was lifted and spoke that joy yesterday at my office...which turned out to be a BAD idea.  a debate was quickly started (see my journal entry) and it has left me with such a horrible sense of distance from the people I work with, so I've been reading up about it since and almost posted a topic in the lounge but was afraid of the same response I got here at work....so it makes me SO happy too see all of you supporting this also!