Stem Cell...
What are your thoughts......
do you think it should be allowed?
should embryonic stem cell be allowed, if not why not?
Original Post by monarch777:Why do you ASSume it's some sort of "bravery" issue, and not people sincerely saying what they think? I don't have a single fear of stating my view of anything, least of all on a message board. Ask any of the anti-choicers or anti-feminists on here.Seems like everyone here is happy about stem-cell research...kind of a boring discussion without someone brave enough to say they do not agree ! But they probably dare not. There is an article on MSN with a livelier, more diverse discussion going on.
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/articlepa ge.aspx?cp-documentid=100234420>1=31036 &ucpg=2#uc2Lst
The "debate" about stem cells is an off-shoot of the abortion debate, only much more rediculous because whereas fetuses are almost human, embryos are balls of cells, not even recognizable as anything.
We are talking about embryos that were created for impregnating otherwise infertile people. So a random couple creates 12 embryos, then they use a few to get pregnant and dont need the rest - or else they give up on IVF - or they get divorced - or they die. Those embryos are leftovers. They WILL be destroyed one way or the other! Theres just nothing else to do with the 600,000 embryos sitting in freezers across the US.
We can either dump them down the sink or we can try to use them to save people. I find it...ironic...that pro lifers favor leaving the embryos frozen forever and ever and ever, rather than using them to save people.
Original Post by azirra:
We can either dump them down the sink or we can try to use them to save people. I find it...ironic...that pro lifers favor leaving the embryos frozen forever and ever and ever, rather than using them to save people.
Ironic is an understatement - I don't think I'll ever be able to understand that mentality.
Original Post by coffincritter:
Original Post by monarch777:
Seems like everyone here is happy about stem-cell research...kind of a boring discussion without someone brave enough to say they do not agree ! But they probably dare not. There is an article on MSN with a livelier, more diverse discussion going on.
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/articlepa ge.aspx?cp-documentid=100234420>1=31036&am p;ucpg=2#uc2Lst
Why do you ASSume it's some sort of "bravery" issue, and not people sincerely saying what they think? I don't have a single fear of stating my view of anything, least of all on a message board. Ask any of the anti-choicers or anti-feminists on here.
It's truly "brave" to post when you know you are not in the majority. So I would like to see someone who DOESN'T agree so that every one can pile on them like a pack of hungry dogs. That's all. But it is so predictable I suppose no one will speak up anyhow. Any takers?...:P
Original Post by coffincritter:
Original Post by monarch777:
Seems like everyone here is happy about stem-cell research...kind of a boring discussion without someone brave enough to say they do not agree ! But they probably dare not. There is an article on MSN with a livelier, more diverse discussion going on.
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/articlepa ge.aspx?cp-documentid=100234420>1=31036&am p;ucpg=2#uc2Lst
Why do you ASSume it's some sort of "bravery" issue, and not people sincerely saying what they think? I don't have a single fear of stating my view of anything, least of all on a message board. Ask any of the anti-choicers or anti-feminists on here.
For people who believe that life happens at fertilization, it is still an issue for some. This is still a hot issue for alot of people. However, I think it might just be that in the past, conservatives have not only been the minority here on CC, but in recent history, they have also been beaten down quite a bit on these threads. If people are berated enough for their beliefs then eventually, they are going to stop posting in threads like this. Which, like monarch said, ends up as a boring discussion with all the posters agreeing with each other.
Original Post by monarch777:
It's truly "brave" to post when you know you are not in the majority. So I would like to see someone who DOESN'T agree so that every one can pile on them like a pack of hungry dogs. That's all. But it is so predictable I suppose no one will speak up anyhow. Any takers?...:P
You just proved my point in #45. Thanks for that.
Well isn't it tampering as usual with nature, shouldn't we just leave well alone, why do we need to find a cure for everything..........aren't we pushing it too far, at what point do we say enough is enough.....
"i'm used to being pounced on and actually take some kind of sick pleasure from it"! 
Original Post by monarch777:It's truly "brave" to post when you know you are not in the majority. So I would like to see someone who DOESN'T agree so that every one can pile on them like a pack of hungry dogs. That's all. But it is so predictable I suppose no one will speak up anyhow. Any takers?...:P
you're kidding, right? you and i disagree about everything. so which one of us is "brave" and which is a hungry dog? huh?
Well, perhaps the people who value their genetic material will keep procreating, and the people who think that their embryos are a primordial sludge will let science dissect it and use it...and eventually the people who have more live children running around...whom they have raised and influenced with their way of thinking, will eventually be in the majority of thought.
Scary eh?
no. the faster they procreate, the faster we go extinct.
This is actually one issue that I do not strongly disagree with. Sorry I won't be able to help in the feeding of the "hugry dogs" today. I know how they love fresh meat. :-p
Original Post by pgeorgian:
Original Post by monarch777:It's truly "brave" to post when you know you are not in the majority. So I would like to see someone who DOESN'T agree so that every one can pile on them like a pack of hungry dogs. That's all. But it is so predictable I suppose no one will speak up anyhow. Any takers?...:P
you're kidding, right? you and i disagree about everything. so which one of us is "brave" and which is a hungry dog? huh?
I really do not think I actually considered....or thought about you when I made that statement. (Sorry to dissapoint you. ) It's always been pretty clear about where you stand. I am happy to leave you well enough alone. And on this subject, I really haven't taken a side or stance, just pointing out how one-sided this "debate" was. I loved how the snotty sperm and egg references happened as well....cuts to the people who might think life begins at conception...and they did not even post here ! No worries..they will not be posting on this thread. I just think everyone has the right to be heard and respected. Some here just like to be snide and rude whilst trying to prove their point. To learn and consider and to broaden ones thought-processes takes listening from both sides. Both sides.
I like the "huh?" At the end of your post...it totally encompasses the essence of your arguments.
Kisses !
Original Post by monarch777:I like the "huh?" At the end of your post...it totally encompasses the essence of your arguments.
yes, in your mind, i'm sure it does.
am i speaking arabic or something?
Original Post by monarch777:
Well, perhaps the people who value their genetic material will keep procreating, and the people who think that their embryos are a primordial sludge will let science dissect it and use it...and eventually the people who have more live children running around...whom they have raised and influenced with their way of thinking, will eventually be in the majority of thought.
Scary eh?
1. Religious people use IVF just as often as non-religious people.
2. Using IVF to conceive doesnt mean people think their "embryos are primordial sludge." I think that was an ill-informed evolution reference? Again, no statistical link between believing in evolution and going to a fertility doctor. People who want babies and have money go to fertility docs.
3. On having more babies to spread ideology to influence the debate: the prevailing thought will be the one that can hold up to public scrutiny and scientific scrutiny - ie which side is less made fun of on internet forums, which are a microcosm of society. See posts 1 - 53 for which argument uses logic, which doesnt.
Original Post by monarch777:
Original Post by coffincritter:
Original Post by monarch777:
Seems like everyone here is happy about stem-cell research...kind of a boring discussion without someone brave enough to say they do not agree ! But they probably dare not. There is an article on MSN with a livelier, more diverse discussion going on.
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/articlepa ge.aspx?cp-documentid=100234420>1=31036&am p;ucpg=2#uc2Lst
Why do you ASSume it's some sort of "bravery" issue, and not people sincerely saying what they think? I don't have a single fear of stating my view of anything, least of all on a message board. Ask any of the anti-choicers or anti-feminists on here.
It's truly "brave" to post when you know you are not in the majority. So I would like to see someone who DOESN'T agree so that every one can pile on them like a pack of hungry dogs. That's all. But it is so predictable I suppose no one will speak up anyhow. Any takers?...:P
Sure, it's brave to speak up when you're not in the majority, just I don't think that if one's views do happen to be in the majority in any instance, it doesn't mean that they weren't brave enough to state otherwise, just that they told the truth. Honestly though, on the other side of things, there are those who deliberately post views opposing the majority because they want to play "devil's advocate" or think they're being "challenging" or "iconoclastic". If someone does pipe up with an opposing view here eventually, I hope they'll actually mean it and not simply think they're being clever.
the only reason i can think of to be afraid to speak your mind is that you don't know what you're talking about. it that's the case, then--yeah--call it bravery. or whatever.
Original Post by monarch777:
Well, perhaps the people who value their genetic material will keep procreating, and the people who think that their embryos are a primordial sludge will let science dissect it and use it...and eventually the people who have more live children running around...whom they have raised and influenced with their way of thinking, will eventually be in the majority of thought.
Scary eh?
Just curious here, how many people think and believe the exact same things their parents, and perhaps grandparents before them have thought, and have never questioned or rebelled? How about siblings, do any of you have siblings who, though you were both raised by the same parents, have differing opinions and lifestyles from yourself?
Regarding post #52 (because I don't feel like having 10 replies for each individual thing I see), yes, everyone has the right to post and be heard (I won't say that "respect" is an automatic right, because I see it more as a thing you earn). As we're all guests of the CC board, all posts have to adhere to there guidelines. You see comments about "sperm and eggs" as "snotty", I see them as biological terms. And if the anti-choice posters are deciding not to post on this thread because of those terms, or because they might be outnumbered, well that's on them. There's nothing preventing any registered CC user from posting on any thread here, so long as what they write stays in the guidelines.
As far as "bravery" goes, although I've disagreed with peaches before, I think it's kind of cool that she posted what she did here, and not just because it's the same as what I think. It's kind of like when I said I agreed with the right to carry a gun even though I largely identify as liberal and they don't agree with that. To me it's more important to form your own views on things as an individual, rather than just go "well I'm liberal/conservative therefore I must think A B and C because the rest of them do."
Original Post by coffincritter:
Original Post by monarch777:
Well, perhaps the people who value their genetic material will keep procreating, and the people who think that their embryos are a primordial sludge will let science dissect it and use it...and eventually the people who have more live children running around...whom they have raised and influenced with their way of thinking, will eventually be in the majority of thought.
Scary eh?
Just curious here, how many people think and believe the exact same things their parents, and perhaps grandparents before them have thought, and have never questioned or rebelled? How about siblings, do any of you have siblings who, though you were both raised by the same parents, have differing opinions and lifestyles from yourself?
Sorry to dissapoint you, Coffin. I know you are expecting us to all say "not me!"
But when it comes to religion (and lets face it, this is a religious debate)...the answer is most people.
Original Post by azirra:
Original Post by coffincritter:
Original Post by monarch777:
Well, perhaps the people who value their genetic material will keep procreating, and the people who think that their embryos are a primordial sludge will let science dissect it and use it...and eventually the people who have more live children running around...whom they have raised and influenced with their way of thinking, will eventually be in the majority of thought.
Scary eh?
Just curious here, how many people think and believe the exact same things their parents, and perhaps grandparents before them have thought, and have never questioned or rebelled? How about siblings, do any of you have siblings who, though you were both raised by the same parents, have differing opinions and lifestyles from yourself?
Sorry to dissapoint you, Coffin. I know you are expecting us to all say "not me!"
But when it comes to religion (and lets face it, this is a religious debate)...the answer is most people.
I don't think that's true. I've encountered very few people who embrace all their parents values, even in religion (particularly when it comes to people who I would call "actively" religious--that is people who spend a considerable amount of time in religious practices and thinking about spiritual matters. Which is pretty different from the sort who go "Oh, well my parents had me baptized so I guess I'm a Christian, but I never really go to church or think about that stuff". What are they called? Lukewarm?)
Original Post by pgeorgian:
the only reason i can think of to be afraid to speak your mind is that you don't know what you're talking about. it that's the case, then--yeah--call it bravery. or whatever.
Gee..what could you point out specifically and logically, without crude and disparaging remarks....that I "do not know what I am talking about" in this thread? Opinions are not fact...they are opinions, and like sphincters...everyone has one.
I also find it very egocentric that you thought I was even thinking about you in the "pack of hungry dogs" comment. That's funny.
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