Taxes... I want your opinions.

Can anyone explain to me why many liberals think the wealthy aren't paying their fair share of taxes?  If you can support it with statistics, I'd much appreciate it.

Also...
1)  How will increasing Federal Income Tax help?  Would you increase it across the board or just for higher income earners?
2)  How will increasing taxes paid by large corporations help?  Keep in mind, corporation implies that it is owned by the people... taxes on corporations ultimately reduce their profits which in turn reduces value of the peoples' ownership in that company.
3)  What should be done with FICA (social security)?  Increase?  Leave the same?  Abolish it?

Original Post by smartjock256:

I am curious, moonikins, what denotes "unearned" income? The IRS will get you if you acquire money from anywhere for anything (hell, that's how they got Capone). They'll tax a gift you give a family member or friend, if it's over like $13000 or something like that. I mean, the tax law is ridiculously complicated that it's possible (easy even) for large corporations to hide their money, play games to increase their deductions to reduce their taxable income, and the like, which is one reason why the tax code needs to be drastically changed (and government needs to stop spending a ridiculous amount of money).

And I agree with lippy, taxes are basically state sanctioned robbery. I mean, I understand that government needs money to work, and national defense is important and all that, but it's too much, government has their hands in everything, when they should.

 Without all this tax drama, the government wouldn't need as much money to 'work'. We don't really need them to do half the things they're doing 'for us'.  Example: the secretary of state (or dmv) - WHY IS THIS NEEDED? Why do we need to register our cars and renew EVERY YEAR? and our licenses? WHY? WHYYYYYYYYYY?

By the way, nobody has answered my original question, which is why I am gettng frustrated.

For situations 1, 2 and 3, WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE CHANGED AND WHY?  I DON'T CARE if what you think of the current situation.  Tell me what you think should be done about it.

As for social security, it's a scam. It's exactly the same as the chain letter that goes around saying "send one $1 to each of the above five people, then remove the first name and put your name at the bottom and send it to 5 people, you put in $5 and get out $3125" Because that's what you're doing, you're giving money to retired individuals, with the hope that a)they don't last too long (social security was designed to help people when people lived only a few years after retirement) b) There's a greater number of people to pay you once you retire and c) The government doesn't screw it up (like they did in the 60's when the babyboomers were paying into it).

And social security is nothing like taking extra income to give to those who need it. It's taking from every working indivdual to give to every retiree. I don't think of it as money I put in to get later, because I know I won't, it's just more lost money...

I agree with the pyramid scheme set up being retarded.  Our government is stupid, that's nothing new. ;)

However, social security does benefit more people than just retirees.  For example, if you are a minor, and one of your parents dies, that minor will receive social security.  I don't assume that I'll ever see that money again, so it is "lost" to me in that aspect.  However, I don't feel bad cause I know I'm supporting indigent seniors and orphans.

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by smartjock256:

I fully agree with what was said, if you can't retire, keep working. I don't expect anyone else to take care of me, and I don't expect to take care of anyone else (family and friends are possible exceptions, but that's my choice, not the government's).  

When you're 90 years old, wheelchair bound, and have huge medical bills, where exactly are you supposed to work?

 Hey, that would be a tough situation, however, it is up to the individual to paln that out for themselves beforehand. Sure, we are not all dealt the same card in life. Isn't that how life is designed, to be unfair? I think so. I don't expect it to be fair, ever. All you can do is the best you can with the circumstances you have.

Original Post by dcyounts:

By the way, nobody has answered my original question, which is why I am gettng frustrated.

For situations 1, 2 and 3, WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE CHANGED AND WHY?  I DON'T CARE if what you think of the current situation.  Tell me what you think should be done about it.

 Dude, I seriously cannot answer those questions because I'm not knowledgeable enough. So I will sit here and rock the boat instead. Enjoy!

Original Post by dcyounts:

By the way, nobody has answered my original question, which is why I am gettng frustrated.

For situations 1, 2 and 3, WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE CHANGED AND WHY?  I DON'T CARE if what you think of the current situation.  Tell me what you think should be done about it.

 

1.)  Increased taxation for the obscenely wealthy.  Just imagine how much revenue could be generated from those earning in excess of $5million a year.  This may keep people from being so greedy, and having ridiculous salaries for executives.  Not to mention, the reduction in the amassing in personal wealth which could eventually take us back to a feudal system,

2.)  I don't really care about corporate taxation.  Maybe if the corporations paid fewer taxes, they would pass down more benefits to employees.  I personally work for a REIT, so they don't pay any corporate taxes.

3.)  Leave the rate unchanged, but remove the cap.  Increase the age at which it can be taken, and add net worth limits so that wealthy people can't get it.

Original Post by dcyounts:

As per outsourcing labor, the companies aren't forcing children to work... the society in that country/region is.  And overall, outsourcing is beneficial to the world economy as a whole.

 That's the old is it the Prostitute or Punter who's to blame argument.......

You know ... Danes pay 50% to 70% of their income in taxes ... and yet they're the "happiest country" on the planet.  Go figger.

Social Security may be a scam to someone just entering the workforce, but for someone who is just now retiring and spent 40 years of their life paying into it with the expectation that they will be able to retire on it, it's causes a little bit of a problem.  The doubts about social security didn't start popping up until recently, so why would these people think that they needed some other form of retirement?  Is it really fair to tell someone for 40 years that their retirement is taken care of, and then rip it away from them right before they retire, telling them, "too bad, guess you have to go back to work."?

As for the original issue, there is a reason that they call it a Tax *BURDEN*.  It's not about how much you pay, rather than what sacrifice you have to make for all of the services that you get for living in this country (free schools, police, fire protection, military protection, roads, jails, prisons, etc).  It's similar to income-based speeding tickets in Finland.  A $500 speeding ticket is a bigger sting for someone who makes $200 a week verses someone who makes $10000 a week, so they base the speeding fines on income. 

Original Post by yachtracer1977:

You know ... Danes pay 50% to 70% of their income in taxes ... and yet they're the "happiest country" on the planet.  Go figger.

 I would gladly pay more in taxes if our country had functioning social services.

However, everything our country does is ass backwards and retarded, and I can't expect them to get socialism right.

I think everyone has a right to basic health care, shelter, food, and education.

If the government could figure out how to do it properly, then I would gladly give up 60% of my income.

And I'm totally with you on that, kaff.

Original Post by kaffwynn:

1.)  Increased taxation for the obscenely wealthy.  Just imagine how much revenue could be generated from those earning in excess of $5million a year.  This may keep people from being so greedy, and having ridiculous salaries for executives.  Not to mention, the reduction in the amassing in personal wealth which could eventually take us back to a feudal system,

OMG!!!  NO F*ING WAY!  We agree on something!  There should be MORE tax brackets.  Someone making $1 mil, $2 mil, $5 mil, $10 mil, or even $100 mil a year should NOT be in the same category as someone making $250,000.

2.)  I don't really care about corporate taxation.  Maybe if the corporations paid fewer taxes, they would pass down more benefits to employees.  I personally work for a REIT, so they don't pay any corporate taxes.

I asked this because Obama wants to put a windfall tax on oil companies which are already paying 45%, more than most other corporations.  They also have lower profit margins than most.  Huge revenue though...

3.)  Leave the rate unchanged, but remove the cap.  Increase the age at which it can be taken, and add net worth limits so that wealthy people can't get it.

Just curious... what do you think would happen (negatively) if social security was to be abolished?

 

Original Post by lippygal:

Original Post by dcyounts:

By the way, nobody has answered my original question, which is why I am gettng frustrated.

For situations 1, 2 and 3, WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE CHANGED AND WHY?  I DON'T CARE if what you think of the current situation.  Tell me what you think should be done about it.

 Dude, I seriously cannot answer those questions because I'm not knowledgeable enough. So I will sit here and rock the boat instead. Enjoy!

It's ok... I like your passion and vigor anwyays...

Original Post by kaffwynn:

Original Post by yachtracer1977:

You know ... Danes pay 50% to 70% of their income in taxes ... and yet they're the "happiest country" on the planet.  Go figger.

 I would gladly pay more in taxes if our country had functioning social services.

However, everything our country does is ass backwards and retarded, and I can't expect them to get socialism right.

I think everyone has a right to basic health care, shelter, food, and education.

If the government could figure out how to do it properly, then I would gladly give up 60% of my income.

 Down with socialism.  Let the bleeding hearts bleed.

Original Post by burninlove:

Social Security may be a scam to someone just entering the workforce, but for someone who is just now retiring and spent 40 years of their life paying into it with the expectation that they will be able to retire on it, it's causes a little bit of a problem.  The doubts about social security didn't start popping up until recently, so why would these people think that they needed some other form of retirement?  Is it really fair to tell someone for 40 years that their retirement is taken care of, and then rip it away from them right before they retire, telling them, "too bad, guess you have to go back to work."?

How about phasing it out over a long period of time... in which people who have been promised it for 40 years get the bulk now and less and less until my generation (newly enterring the workforce) gets none.  I'd be happy with that because I would be paying less and less over the next 50 years.

There is something called RETIREMENT PLANNING that anybody here should look into if they haven't already.

Retirement planning is easy for you, though, right?  It's easy for me, too.  I live very comfortably now AND put away a huge chunk of income for it.

The single mother barely able to make ends meet, living paycheck to paycheck, doesn't have it so easy.  Neither does the single man who got hurt on the job and is living off of a disability check.

But, yea, screw 'em all ... IT'S ALL ABOUT ME ME ME ME ME!!!

/sarcasm.

Original Post by dcyounts:

Original Post by kaffwynn:

1.)  Increased taxation for the obscenely wealthy.  Just imagine how much revenue could be generated from those earning in excess of $5million a year.  This may keep people from being so greedy, and having ridiculous salaries for executives.  Not to mention, the reduction in the amassing in personal wealth which could eventually take us back to a feudal system,

OMG!!!  NO F*ING WAY!  We agree on something!  There should be MORE tax brackets.  Someone making $1 mil, $2 mil, $5 mil, $10 mil, or even $100 mil a year should NOT be in the same category as someone making $250,000.

2.)  I don't really care about corporate taxation.  Maybe if the corporations paid fewer taxes, they would pass down more benefits to employees.  I personally work for a REIT, so they don't pay any corporate taxes.

I asked this because Obama wants to put a windfall tax on oil companies which are already paying 45%, more than most other corporations.  They also have lower profit margins than most.  Huge revenue though...

3.)  Leave the rate unchanged, but remove the cap.  Increase the age at which it can be taken, and add net worth limits so that wealthy people can't get it.

Just curious... what do you think would happen (negatively) if social security was to be abolished?

 

HAHA.  I'm in a tough position.  I happen to be in a high income bracket, but that's because I live in a metropolitan area where the cost of living is very high.  People make more as compared to the rest of the country, but at the end of the day we're all "house poor".  So, I don't think there is any advantage to raise the taxes at the 1-2% level cause it would totally screw people in California and New York.  That is unless they gave people tax credits based on where they live, but we all know that will never happen.

That being said, I feel that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet shoudl be paying more in taxes, because they REALLY have surplus.  I believe in socialism, but I think that before they can charge me more, there's other people that have to pay more in first.

Despite the fact that I'm a Democrat, I am NOT an Obama fan.  I don't know what I'm going to do when the election comes around.  The oil companies will just charge us more if they are taxed more, so I don't think that is the right solution.  I have more of an issue with outlandish executive payouts than corporate "paper profits".  If you fix the taxation of individuals, then there is not so much incentive to be so greedy, and the rest will fall into place.

No social security?  Nothing would happen to me or my family, since we are well prepared.  HOWEVER, I don't even want to think about all of the people out there that haven't saved responsibly.  They would be forced into complete poverty, which sucks.

Original Post by yachtracer1977:

Retirement planning is easy for you, though, right?  It's easy for me, too.  I live very comfortably now AND put away a huge chunk of income for it.

The single mother barely able to make ends meet, living paycheck to paycheck, doesn't have it so easy.  Neither does the single man who got hurt on the job and is living off of a disability check.

But, yea, screw 'em all ... IT'S ALL ABOUT ME ME ME ME ME!!!

/sarcasm.

 Agreed 1000%.

Original Post by dcyounts:

Original Post by moonikins:

The reasons why so many companies are fleeing to other countries is out of short term greed. They don't care who is in charge or what policies are in effect. They are going to go wherever they can and do whatever they can to put more profits into the hands of the holders of the corporation. They don't care if it hurts workers here in the US. They don't care if they exploit children overseas. They don't care if they poison the environment.

You have been so disillusioned by the comical reports of the media.

I am not disillusioned by the media at all. Far from it. I am almost 48 years old. I have worked for a wide variety of companies in a variety of industries. You are just starting out and have not experienced or witnessed very much in the ways of management or employment.

The cold hard truth about most companies is that they care very little for their employees in general.  The lower the worker on the totem pole, the less they care.  Most industries reward their managers based on hitting goals set in advance.  These managers then do whatever it takes to meet or exceed these goals.  The goals are not always reasonable, and sometimes they are only achievable by utilizing methods that harm people and/or the environment.  I've seen it first hand, so don't tell me I'm disillusioned.