Taxes... I want your opinions.

Can anyone explain to me why many liberals think the wealthy aren't paying their fair share of taxes?  If you can support it with statistics, I'd much appreciate it.

Also...
1)  How will increasing Federal Income Tax help?  Would you increase it across the board or just for higher income earners?
2)  How will increasing taxes paid by large corporations help?  Keep in mind, corporation implies that it is owned by the people... taxes on corporations ultimately reduce their profits which in turn reduces value of the peoples' ownership in that company.
3)  What should be done with FICA (social security)?  Increase?  Leave the same?  Abolish it?

Original Post by yachtracer1977:

Retirement planning is easy for you, though, right?  It's easy for me, too.  I live very comfortably now AND put away a huge chunk of income for it.

The single mother barely able to make ends meet, living paycheck to paycheck, doesn't have it so easy.  Neither does the single man who got hurt on the job and is living off of a disability check.

But, yea, screw 'em all ... IT'S ALL ABOUT ME ME ME ME ME!!!

/sarcasm.

 Life is what you're dealt and what you make of it. I'm sorry you couldn't see any good in my post.  Proactive beats reactive every time.  I don't have all the answers but retirement planning is important for everyone and THAT IS NOT LIMITED TO PUTTING AWAY MONEY. Being in good health is another example of retirement planning. Its up to YOU YOU YOU!

Original Post by lippygal:

There is something called RETIREMENT PLANNING that anybody here should look into if they haven't already.

 Have you looked into it? Are you doing it right now? 

What happens to the 25 year old who has started saving for retirement and then gets permanently disabled due to an accident or illness?

What about the people who had good private pensions only to have their retirement swindled away by the people in charge of the funds?

So sad, too bad. Tough luck for them. Right?

Original Post by lippygal:

 Down with socialism.  Let the bleeding hearts bleed.

 So you think we should get rid of the military, all our police department, fire departments, public schools, roads, parks/playgrounds, etc?

All of which are socialist institutions.

Original Post by moonikins:

Original Post by lippygal:

There is something called RETIREMENT PLANNING that anybody here should look into if they haven't already.

 Have you looked into it? Are you doing it right now? 

What happens to the 25 year old who has started saving for retirement and then gets permanently disabled due to an accident or illness?

What about the people who had good private pensions only to have their retirement swindled away by the people in charge of the funds?

So sad, too bad. Tough luck for them. Right?

 Yes and yes.

Those circumstances are quite unfortunate, and hopefully they'll be able to work something out.  Thats what family and friends are for, in the worst of circumstances.

I really tend not to be emotional, don't confuse my lack of emotion for me thinking I'm better than anyone else, or not caring. I do care. I just don't sit around all day and daydream about what if this and what if that, I prepare with what I can, and the rest I deal with as it comes. I've been doing just fine for myself so far.

Everything you have can be taken away from you at the drop of a hat - tomorrow.  Again, life isn't fair. That is the reality.

Original Post by lippygal:

 Life is what you're dealt and what you make of it. I'm sorry you couldn't see any good in my post.  Proactive beats reactive every time.  I don't have all the answers but retirement planning is important for everyone and THAT IS NOT LIMITED TO PUTTING AWAY MONEY. Being in good health is another example of retirement planning. Its up to YOU YOU YOU!

 Do you really feel this way, or are you just srirring the pot?

A lot can happen in life, we don't always have 100% control over what happens.

since when did having a social conscience equate with socialism? am so tired of that label being plastered on everything that has to do with helping people.

the truth is this a society where if people are left to 'donate to charities', rather than be taxed, people will die of starvation.

agree with burninlove - btw. you kids hear some bs rhetoric about 'my' this and 'my' that while discounting the fact that some of us were not born with the advantages you take for granted.

government's job, IMO is to take care of those that cannot take care of themselves. this includes the elderly.

Original Post by yachtracer1977:

Retirement planning is easy for you, though, right?  It's easy for me, too.  I live very comfortably now AND put away a huge chunk of income for it.

The single mother barely able to make ends meet, living paycheck to paycheck, doesn't have it so easy.  Neither does the single man who got hurt on the job and is living off of a disability check.

But, yea, screw 'em all ... IT'S ALL ABOUT ME ME ME ME ME!!!

/sarcasm.

My closest female friends mom was a single mother.  She struggled to make ends meet until Laura was 16.  Then Laura was expected to get a job and pay for her own clothes, food, and everything but living expenses.  She got a scholarship to go to college and pays for herself.  Her mother hasn't had to pay for her since she was 43.  That leaves 22+ years to save for retirement.

:)

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by lippygal:

 Down with socialism.  Let the bleeding hearts bleed.

 So you think we should get rid of the military, all our police department, fire departments, public schools, roads, parks/playgrounds, etc?

All of which are socialist institutions.

 No. I wouldn't want to get rid of those.

Original Post by kaffwynn:

Original Post by lippygal:

 Life is what you're dealt and what you make of it. I'm sorry you couldn't see any good in my post.  Proactive beats reactive every time.  I don't have all the answers but retirement planning is important for everyone and THAT IS NOT LIMITED TO PUTTING AWAY MONEY. Being in good health is another example of retirement planning. Its up to YOU YOU YOU!

 Do you really feel this way, or are you just srirring the pot?

A lot can happen in life, we don't always have 100% control over what happens.

 Both. And of course, I agree.  But what you DO have control over, be wise. Thats all. 

Original Post by kathygator:

since when did having a social conscience equate with socialism? am so tired of that label being plastered on everything that has to do with helping people.

the truth is this a society where if people are left to 'donate to charities', rather than be taxed, people will die of starvation.

agree with burninlove - btw. you kids hear some bs rhetoric about 'my' this and 'my' that while discounting the fact that some of us were not born with the advantages you take for granted.

government's job, IMO is to take care of those that cannot take care of themselves. this includes the elderly.

 If that is directed towards me (not sure) I think I was misunderstood. I am not even interested in clearing it up though.

Original Post by lippygal:

Life is what you're dealt and what you make of it. I'm sorry you couldn't see any good in my post.  Proactive beats reactive every time.  I don't have all the answers but retirement planning is important for everyone and THAT IS NOT LIMITED TO PUTTING AWAY MONEY. Being in good health is another example of retirement planning. Its up to YOU YOU YOU!

 Someone has been reading Stephen Covey...

Original Post by dcyounts:

Original Post by lippygal:

Life is what you're dealt and what you make of it. I'm sorry you couldn't see any good in my post.  Proactive beats reactive every time.  I don't have all the answers but retirement planning is important for everyone and THAT IS NOT LIMITED TO PUTTING AWAY MONEY. Being in good health is another example of retirement planning. Its up to YOU YOU YOU!

 Someone has been reading Stephen Covey...

 I don't know who that is lol

Hmm... maybe Victor Fankl?

Stephen Covey wrote the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.

This isn't a discussion about personal accountability, lippy. easy enough to take a hardline position and tell people to 'work something out' or rely on 'friends and family', but it doesn't translate into a system that helps people.

there are so many folks out there struggling week to week to feed their families, that simply do not have the means to 'plan for retirement'.

this is another argument i get really tired of. 'they should have planned better.' our government doesn't 'plan better', our corporations don't 'plan better', our whole society is crisis-driven - kind of ludicrous to assume individuals, for the most part, will do better.

Original Post by lippygal:

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by lippygal:

 Down with socialism.  Let the bleeding hearts bleed.

 So you think we should get rid of the military, all our police department, fire departments, public schools, roads, parks/playgrounds, etc?

All of which are socialist institutions.

 No. I wouldn't want to get rid of those.

So, you like socialism? 

Original Post by kathygator:

This isn't a discussion about personal accountability, lippy. easy enough to take a hardline position and tell people to 'work something out' or rely on 'friends and family', but it doesn't translate into a system that helps people.

there are so many folks out there struggling week to week to feed their families, that simply do not have the means to 'plan for retirement'.

this is another argument i get really tired of. 'they should have planned better.' our government doesn't 'plan better', our corporations don't 'plan better', our whole society is crisis-driven - kind of ludicrous to assume individuals, for the most part, will do better.

 Then thats where you and I disagree. No argument here, just a different way of thinking.

Original Post by kathygator:

the truth is this a society where if people are left to 'donate to charities', rather than be taxed, people will die of starvation. 

 a fair number of "conservatives" think that this is what should happen

survival of the fittest for societies - social darwinism

let the poor, disabled and otherwise disadvanteged people perish and stop using up resources that other people can use more profitably; if only the government would stop helping them survive

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by lippygal:

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by lippygal:

 Down with socialism.  Let the bleeding hearts bleed.

 So you think we should get rid of the military, all our police department, fire departments, public schools, roads, parks/playgrounds, etc?

All of which are socialist institutions.

 No. I wouldn't want to get rid of those.

So, you like socialism? 

 Even though this is a tempting argument, I'm not interested. I'll take back what I said and give you the benefit of the doubt. I would not want to see the fire department and public school system go to hell.

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by lippygal:

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by lippygal:

 Down with socialism.  Let the bleeding hearts bleed.

 So you think we should get rid of the military, all our police department, fire departments, public schools, roads, parks/playgrounds, etc?

All of which are socialist institutions.

 No. I wouldn't want to get rid of those.

So, you like socialism? 

 You have to be careful with that term.  My dad majored in Political Philosophy (yes, a very weird 70's major at one of the most liberal colleges).  When I say I'm a socialist, he gets angry, and says "no, you like social policies, that's different".

Hehe.

Original Post by kaffwynn:

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by lippygal:

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by lippygal:

 Down with socialism.  Let the bleeding hearts bleed.

 So you think we should get rid of the military, all our police department, fire departments, public schools, roads, parks/playgrounds, etc?

All of which are socialist institutions.

 No. I wouldn't want to get rid of those.

So, you like socialism? 

 You have to be careful with that term.  My dad majored in Political Philosophy (yes, a very weird 70's major at one of the most liberal colleges).  When I say I'm a socialist, he gets angry, and says "no, you like social policies, that's different".

Hehe.

 lol! thats exactly why I'm not interested in that fruitless debate.