LOCKED TOPIC

Termination topic - I made a decision

Oh my goodness.  I have gone cross eyed reading all five pages of posts.  Well, at least I dont feel so alone on this anymore!

Firstly, I would like to address some issues.  I appologise for initially posting in this forum.  I am ignorant on how the lounge works, and went under what I thought was the appropriate heading, however failing to think about the fact that most members in this area would be parents and wannabe parents.

the topic was not intended to spark any debates, about pro choice vrs pro life, about overpopulation and the pros of adoption vrs abortion.  I simply wanted a little bit of support and advice, which I have found particulary from the couple of people who have PMd me.  So thank you very much for sharing your intensly private stories with me, it has helped me immensly.

I am disgusted at the amount of scare tactics, emotional blackmailing and use of provocative words such as 'murderer' used against me to try to stop me having an abortion and I sincerly thank those (particularly pg) for standing up for me when I didnt feel strong enough to stand up for myself.  For gods sakes, if you couldnt tell I am clearly upset and going through a traumatic time.  Those sorts of tactics simply made me more upset, self loathing and confused.  good one.

I appologise for my comment about adoption.  It certainly is a valid and viable option.  Just not for me.

So, my decision?  Well, I was originally booked in for a termination appointment last thursday.  Yesterday I decided I couldnt wait that long and moved it forward to this morning.

I never showed up.

I realised that my husband and I are more than capeable of taking care of and loving and adoring a baby.  It has come much much sooner than we would have liked, however, if we did abort, we would try again later.  and with that reasoning, that we do actually want a child, its just a matter of timing, I decided to suck it up and go through with it.  I dont know whats going to happen.  Just like having an abortion, keeping the baby is going to have a huge effect too.  Our relationship will certainly struggle under the pressure and strain of another pregnancy.  Financially I just dont know how we will survive (Secaly just who ARE these people that would pay me not to have an abortion and how do they help me???!!!) but we are going to see what happens.

Abortion is a very valid, moral, responsible option.  Isnt it funny how pro choicers are about having a choice, whereas pro lifers are about taking away a choice.

Right now, I am tired.  I feel sick.  My boobs hurt and I am depressed.  I resent being pregnant, but I know I will never resent my child once I have met it.

By the way, I do not believe there is a hell of much difference between taking the pill and having an abortion.  at this stage the so called baby is just a smattering of blood 2mm for gods sakes.  I do not belive that is killing a baby and i certainly do not appreciate being called a murderer.

Once again, this is pretty lenghty, but I felt i needed to address some things that have come up.

Thank you very very much everyone for all your caring support

xo

I imagine I will raise hell and anger to some who read this reply. But in the world today, there seems to be the widely recognized issue of over-population and dwindling resources. Personally, I wouldn't want to bring anymore children into this world. As it is now, there is no future for our children. I see out in the streets many children whom by age 15 are already with 1-3 kids themselves. Not to mention the immigrants as well whom come and get pregnant to live off the system as the law allows 5 yrs of public welfare so they get pregnant again after 4 yrs and some months, repeatedly. And currently no one is safe in employment anymore so why take the expense thinking you are safe finanacially in this current economy.  China has the good ideal that only one child per family....usa should law two kids tops. Children only need love they say? Haha! Especially children whom every month are outgrowing their clothes and eating more, etc. Very expensive to have a child these day and times in the world. Maybe if ypou are so rich that you have money to last a few generations , then it doesn't matter as far as expense goes. But still , it adds to the already overburdened world.

By golly, I'm sure the OP is really enlightened by your post, dragon.

Original Post by bdasko:

By golly, I'm sure the OP is really enlightened by your post, dragon.

Exactly.

I wonder why people are bringing a debate here. Talking about things like virtual punches. Kinda juevenile. The time to leave your opinion was on the last topic.

I just wanted to say congratulations again and I wish you all the best.

Tani,

I'm sorry you were so conflicted!  I've been there.  My daughter Lillian was a "suprise" baby as well.  Talk about panic!  A thousand thoughts/questions went through my head all at once.  But, in the end it worked out and I have a darling 2 year old who I love more then anything in the world!  Good luck. :)

O golly gee.....

Like you, when I became pregnant with baby #2, hubby was not at all pleased.  We were broke and he just was not all that into children.  He told me to get an abortion or he would leave.  I pointed out the door to him. 

He didn't leave, it was another 3 years before I kicked him out.  I don't think not having that baby would have prevented that.  I have made many decisions that I later regretted in my life, but that wasn't one of them.  In fact, that baby is going to make me a grandmother soon.

I ended up raising two daughters alone.  We didn't have much, but we got by and enjoyed the time we had together.  I agree with Carm, you don't need a lot of gadgets, what they really need is love.

Well done on making such a hard decision.

Abortion is a completely selfless, loving and responsible choice to make in so many different ways... and so is having the baby.

I hope your pregnancy gets better and you and your family are happy together

Sounds like you have put a lot of thought and care into your decision. I hope everything works out well for you, and I hope that you don't find yourself in circumstances that make you doubt or change that decision - but do keep in mind that it is possible to rethink this, if you need to. (You already found that out, the other way around, when you didn't go for your appointment!) That's the beauty of having a choice - you get to do what you honestly feel is best for you and your family.

Might I recommend some counseling for you and your husband to get you through this stressful time and strengthen your relationship in these unique circumstances? With planning, love, time and investment, you can maximize your chances of the marriage remaining solid.

Good luck!!! :)

Tani...I'm new on this board...just joined, and came across this post quite by accident.  I read your original post, and also every response.  I had a complete "unplanned" hysterectomy due to a very large tumor on my right ovary, that they thought was cancer, but turned out not to be.  I never had children.  My sister has three.  I am a pro-lifer, although I never push my belief on anyone.  People, in the end, I find, always do what THEY'RE going to do...so I don't try to change their minds.  Some, I find, ask for your opinion, and then end up resenting you in the end...so I refuse to get involved in helping people make decisions.  I'd like to tell you what I've gleaned from every one of your posts...as just an onlooker, if I may.  You seem very "self-centered."  And you asked for opinions...never saying that you only wanted PRO-CHOICE opinions, and when others who were PRO-LIFE gave you their opinions...in a very loving fashion (I was especially taken with the young "Cello" gal who seems LOGICAL BEYOND HER YEARS...amazingly level-headed...just blew me away)...when these people gave you their opinions, you turn around in this post, and demean them...demean PRO-LIFER'S in general.  Why ask for an opinion?  To me, a middle aged woman, who's been around the block a few times, it seems very immature....just as your original post about "leaving things to fate" was.  To me, if you're leaving something to "fate" then you're DELIBERATELY TAKING A RISK.  As a lawyer would tell you...you made a DECISION that day to "leave it to fate!" An accident is when you go, "oops!"  You didn't go "oops!"  You admitted it to everyone on the board.  So then you took your "non-oops!" placed a VERY DEEP AND DIVIDING DECISION in the hands of people...and then after they're all consumed by such a serious subject matter (seemingly more serious than you apparently were taking it)...you "flippantly" in the middle of the posts say, "Well...now that you're all fighting, I've MADE MY DECISION!"  Very self-centered.  I don't think I've seen such self-centeredness.  And weak, too....because all you talk about in your posts is "your husband this, your husband that."  And yet PRO-CHOICE WOMEN are supposed to be SO STRONG!   So many are always so WORRIED of what their boyfriends or husbands will say.  I thought you said, "WTF?" to the fact that YOU DON'T SERVE ANYONE?  Then why would you WORRY about whether your husband is upset with the "deliberate" pregnancy or not?  WTF?  Where's your guts?  Kick the a-hole out if he doesn't like the product of HIS SPERM DONATION...I'm assuming he pulled his pants down himself?  And you took your clothes off, yourself?  People use this "my pill didn't work" argument ad nauseum...I can tell you one thing:  If someone told you that you would get AIDS if you have intercourse ONE TIME WITHOUT USING THE PILL...you wouldn't leave ANYTHING to fate!  So that's no excuse...it's a weak person's excuse.  I own two very large businesses, and am a FEMALE business owner, and that would be the day that I would accept such a WEAK excuse..."Well, I forgot to take my pill, and well, we were in the middle of it, and the passion was just so...and, well, we just LEFT IT UP TO FATE!"  Nonsense!  Let's call a spade a spade. You both got a tingly feeling...thought only of your gratification for sex at the moment, and acted like only the LOWER ORGANS were involved, and left the UPPER ORGANS (brains) out of it...and was either unable to say, "Hon...I forgot to take my pills...better not...let's go take cold showers until I get back on it..." or...you DELIBERATELY said, "Oh hell....let er rip! Let's just LEAVE IT TO FATE!"  A pill is something your BRAIN tells your HAND to take.  If you have cancer, and they give you meds to take...you TAKE THEM.  You're an excuse maker...and so are many of the others who say you did an "oops!" so you can just "make it all go away!"  While I'm very glad you made your decision...you were very cruel to play such a joke on the people on the board and throw such a SENSITIVE ISSUE out there...ASK for opinions and help...and then RIDICULE only SOME who gave it.  You're very young, and very naive, because you're ruled by your LOWER HALF, and not your UPPER HALF.  You don't seem to have mastered that part yet.  You will...after many more heartaches...and hard knocks.  We all go through them...only some of us pull up our bootstraps, and take our medicine a little faster, and better, and we ADMIT when we screwed up.  You still haven't...since you still seem to think you made an "oops!" when it was INTENTIONAL....it was your hands who pulled your clothes off...your brain who didn't stop even if in the middle...and pulled away to say..."no! I didn't take my pills!"  All I kept saying to myself as I read your post is, "She is one self-centered person!....and not a nice one, either."  There were many PRO-LIFERS on that board who gave you "loving" advice, even if you didn't agree with it...and many PRO-LIFER'S who were religious who said they were praying for you...and many PRO-LIFER'S who said they really cared for you and the hard decision you had to make.  And this post on this board is how you say, "Thank you" to them.  You have quite a bit of growing up to do...perhaps this child will help you to do that.  We GROW IN THE FIRE, you know?  You bend steel in the fire....  No one ever said life was easy...only self-centered people think it should be, and that their lives should be all about THEM, and THEIR happiness.  That would be the DAY that I would ever let a man...any man....tell me whether or not he wanted a baby.  I married my first husband twice...he followed me all the way across the country.  We're still very good friends...and I am married to the most wonderful man imaginable.  His quote is, "When mama's happy...everyone's happy!"  He's extremely smart...my friends envy me that I get to go to bed with him every night...he's a man's man...and he lets me live my own life, and doesn't hang on me.  I'm the first woman he ever met that never asks him where he goes...because I really am just too busy to baby sit for him.  He's a grown man..he knows where he's going.  But, he funny thing is that he always wants to be with me.  How weird that I'm a PRO-LIFER who has the audacity to actually, dare I say it?  believe in God!  There's that nasty "religious" word.  Funny, everyone wants to wipe him out of schools, off the money, out of government, out of board discussions...but my uncle who was at Normandy told me, "There are no atheists in a foxhole."  Whenever my friends who are terminally ill call me...they never make fun of my religion...they say, "Linda, will you pray for me?" All of a sudden they're thinking of THE AFTERLIFE.  I had a brother who was tragically killed at 18...and let me tell you...when you have a train hit your brother in the face at full speed...you SEARCH FOR ANSWERS.  Thank GOD I did...and it's been over 30 yrs...and I will never apologize for saying I believe in Jesus.  After all, it's my CHOICE...is it not?  Let all the PRO-CHOICERS unite!  Give me hell!  I know you will.  Let's especially discuss "strong" pro-choicers (women's libbers) who say, "My husband doesn't want another child...or my boyfriend."  I love those kinds of silly weak remarks.  They're always so "invested" in a man's life...and usually can't live alone, or support themselves.  My mother raised 3 children ALONE, and RETIRED at the age of 33.  Everyone who knew her was amazed at what she could do.  She never let a man tell her he didn't want 3 kids.  She said, "Next!"  And she was very beautiful....when a cop stopped us once for a ticket cuz she ran a stop sign, he gave her his turkey and a bottle of wine instead of the ticket!  I was raised by a strong woman...who taught me that my life TRULY IS MY OWN...and you don't stop being your own person just because you get married.  And you don't let a MAN tell you he doesn't want more children....if HE put his pencil in the sharpener!  You tell him, "Well, I'm really sorry...I guess I'll see you in court...I think they give about 1/4 of a man's check nowadays for child support."  You make the CHOICE to tell him he's a coward..he can MAKE A BABY....but he can't support one.  Two babies making babies...two very self-centered, immature people who have lots of growing up to do.  And you owe many on that board a public apology, IMHO.  

tiamoaz,

holy crap that was inappropriate!  and long. and inappropriate! and a total rant. tani replied very little during the thread and what she was referring to were people pushing their religious beliefs and out and out condemning her for even considering abortion.  there were some pro life responses that were thought out and sharing, but there were also a lot of finger waggers telling her there was no choice.  asking for advice does not mean you want a bunch of people turning your situation into a moral debate and to be demonized.

this is where we wish tani well.  you want to rant on the politics of abortion, maybe consider starting a new thread.

wow. i'm thinking tiamoaz may have forgotten her meds before posting.

still wishing you well tani :)

and i agree tiamoaz is completely inappropriate and way off her rocker.

tortoisewins...I didn't rant...in fact, my post was not much longer than the first, and this last one of tani.  And I never yelled...but I gave an opinion.  And I never gave her "advice"...(guess you didn't read my post) but told her that she was going to do what she was going to do....people always do.  What I was posting about was the self-centeredness...as well as the "excuses" of a PILL NOT WORKING.  Pills work if you take them.  And tani ADMITTED not taking hers, but LEAVING IT UP TO FATE.  That, to me, is not the pill's fault...but the HANDLER.  And I saw no one on that board telling tani she HAD NO CHOICE.  I saw people tell of people they knew who WITNESSED abortions...(how do you know they were lying?); I saw people who gave an opinion, and who said, "well...it's YOUR CHOICE, but there IS ALSO ADOPTION."  They never said "you have NO CHOICE BUT TO ADOPT THE BABY OUT!"  So you either didn't read their posts either....or you're just used to speaking before you think things through.  That's all those posters were trying to do...get tani to "THINK."  Which, apparently, she did.  And, after all that reading, and thinking, she had warm "cuddly" things to say about PG...but nothing at all nice to say about those who gave her OPPOSING OPINIONS.  And if you don't want a MORAL DEBATE (duh) don't put MORAL ISSUES on a public posting board.  It's not rocket science!  The part about "God" on my post wasn't about tani...and anything she said, but was in answer to the many posts of those RIDICULING people who dared to use "religion" as a reason for not believing in abortion.  I thought they were for CHOICE.  Oh....they meant...only THEIR CHOICE...I forgot.  And they're for a woman's right to her own body...and women's lib....but they're always griping about how their boyfriends or husbands don't want this or that.  If it's their body, what's their problem?  Tell him to get lost!  It's THEIR body.  It's total hypocrisy if you ask me.  They want to tell us how STRONG they are...and then they CRINGE because their significant other....ooooo....may leave them.  If they're strong, why don't they tell them not to let the door hit them on their way out?  You can't have it both ways.  If you're afraid of losing a man...then you're AFRAID!  I say, "Then get a life!"  Don't live YOUR life based on what HE wants....CHOOSE to live your OWN life.  How is that inappropriate?  I think it's good advice.  "Advice"....get it?  Now calm down tortoise. Please.  It's a discussion...and life's messy.  Get with the program.  

Your a beautiful person for what you are about to do with taking on motherhood always know that!!

im 15 and really touched by your choice to keep your child.

I can not imagine not knowing my mom and though i dont have a dad she means alot to me and god really gives us the strength both financially and physically to make it through you seem like a responsible mommy i know any child will be blessed to know you i mean shoot just reading this post you wrote made me all teary and i don't even know you! here i am thinking about body image and to read your post really helped and humbled me in away it changed me sheesh girl you got me crying!

so thank you

and i don't know if your religious or not but just know you will always be in my prayers.=]

Original Post by tiamoaz:

tortoisewins...I didn't rant...in fact, my post was not much longer than the first, and this last one of tani.  And I never yelled...but I gave an opinion.  And I never gave her "advice"...(guess you didn't read my post) but told her that she was going to do what she was going to do....people always do.  What I was posting about was the self-centeredness...as well as the "excuses" of a PILL NOT WORKING.  Pills work if you take them.  And tani ADMITTED not taking hers, but LEAVING IT UP TO FATE.  That, to me, is not the pill's fault...but the HANDLER.  And I saw no one on that board telling tani she HAD NO CHOICE.  I saw people tell of people they knew who WITNESSED abortions...(how do you know they were lying?); I saw people who gave an opinion, and who said, "well...it's YOUR CHOICE, but there IS ALSO ADOPTION."  They never said "you have NO CHOICE BUT TO ADOPT THE BABY OUT!"  So you either didn't read their posts either....or you're just used to speaking before you think things through.  That's all those posters were trying to do...get tani to "THINK."  Which, apparently, she did.  And, after all that reading, and thinking, she had warm "cuddly" things to say about PG...but nothing at all nice to say about those who gave her OPPOSING OPINIONS.  And if you don't want a MORAL DEBATE (duh) don't put MORAL ISSUES on a public posting board.  It's not rocket science!  The part about "God" on my post wasn't about tani...and anything she said, but was in answer to the many posts of those RIDICULING people who dared to use "religion" as a reason for not believing in abortion.  I thought they were for CHOICE.  Oh....they meant...only THEIR CHOICE...I forgot.  And they're for a woman's right to her own body...and women's lib....but they're always griping about how their boyfriends or husbands don't want this or that.  If it's their body, what's their problem?  Tell him to get lost!  It's THEIR body.  It's total hypocrisy if you ask me.  They want to tell us how STRONG they are...and then they CRINGE because their significant other....ooooo....may leave them.  If they're strong, why don't they tell them not to let the door hit them on their way out?  You can't have it both ways.  If you're afraid of losing a man...then you're AFRAID!  I say, "Then get a life!"  Don't live YOUR life based on what HE wants....CHOOSE to live your OWN life.  How is that inappropriate?  I think it's good advice.  "Advice"....get it?  Now calm down tortoise. Please.  It's a discussion...and life's messy.  Get with the program.  

ah. she's the OP. your "advice" would definitley be a "rant" ma'am.

but, fortunately, no one did.

yes. she was looking for support, advice. not demeaning admonishment.

seriously? check the dictionary for def'ns on "advice", "rant", and "admonishment" - while your at it, demeaning too. that's more in the realm of what you have written.

but, just my opinion :)

Running...yogi...

I know, I know...yoga people don't like "confrontation"...but it is what it is.  I thought it was very rude of that young woman to ASK for advice to a MORAL ordeal...and then when people gave MORAL support...she has such wonderful things to say to the ones who were ripping pro-lifer's...and she ridiculed the ones who had the audacity to mention the word "adoption"...even went so far as to say that people who do so are trailer trash...in other words.  And one woman had the audacity to say that women are here to "serve" and tani took it wrong.  The woman said it in the context of "serving" your family....hello!  Like women DO do laundry...dishes...dinner...love their kids...help with homework...etc.  And the woman gets a "WTF?" from tani?  How is THAT appropriate? 

You people need to get your "tactfulness" straight.  My heads on straight.  You don't see me on a board saying "oops!" I "accidentally" got pregnant.  No one ACCIDENTALLY gets pregnant.  But they DO get caught up in the heat of a moment, and don't have the PRESENCE OF MIND to say, "Whoa...buddy....no pill...no condom...no sex!"  Are you saying she had no CHOICE in that?  Why not make the CHOICE before.....before....you undress....or do a deed that CREATES a life?  It's a lot less complicated....and it puts YOU in the driver's seat.  Not a man...or a pill.  I thought you pro-choicer's were all into handing out condoms?  So how come no condom if she forgot her pill?  Fate again?  Oh...I see.  And you think "I" need medication?  You need to look in the mirror.  You're all just making excuses and acting like you don't have a CHOICE.  You do...she did.  Sorry if you hate hearing the truth.  Some people can't handle it.  She still owes that many on that board an apology in my opinion.  

tiamoaz

Not going to debate with you here.  Like I said, this isn't the place, and I don't want to feed another half page rant.

Tani- Again best of luck for you and your family!! 

Well, good, tortoise, then stop debating.  I just laugh at how people like PG can go on and on about the "population explosion" and give all these web sites, ad infinitum, and they take up have a page...and that's okay...cuz she's pro-choice...(more pro-get rid of everyone if you ask me...just wipe them all off the face of the earth...they're taking up way too much room!)....but, that's another rant, another day.  But her goings on and on about population explosions are NOT RANTS?  lol  How come that doesn't surprise me coming from someone in the pro-choice camp?  Choice...except for the choice to have sex w/o protection.  Then, you just have no choice at all...let's just LEAVE IT ALL UP TO FATE!  Oh...and I never said I wasn't ecstatic that tani made the decision she made...but it comes at the expense of causing many on a board a lot of angst...because they REALLY cared about her situation.  She owes them an apology.  

THIS THREAD IS HERE TO WISH TANI WELL. ITS ABOUT POSITIVITY, SUPPORT, AND RESPECT.

the other thread got locked because of the ranting raging emotional angry few. start a new thread and spew your angst and hatred elsewhere. flaming the OP is just so disprespectful and self-righteous and completely ridiculous.

here is a stack of money so you can go buy yourself a clue and some anger management classes. alas, compassion aint for sale darlin so your are f***** on that one.

sorry, tani, but i'm reporting this thread because of tia. i hope the mods lock it. i did not report the last one. there are times i really DO love the blocking feature. BLOCK!

((TANI))

EDIT: heh. niiiiice. all cleaned up and non-offensive.

blocking: the equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and shouting

 I CANT HEAR YOU I CANT HEAR YOU

As per the posting guidelines, please avoid threatening other members, making inflammatory comments or posts, or using foul language, or this thread runs the risk of being locked as well.

Thanks,
Cecily
Volunteer Moderator

cecily!!! omg there you are!!! will send you a PM this weekend. we need to catch uuuup! i see you are still home raising kiddos. good for you girl. happy for you!