who thinks calorie count CAUSES more ED's than help recover?

**not saying CC doesnt help anyone... just saying it harms more

..... certainly did to my friend AND sister....... just hope i'm not next.
First started out with my friend, innocntly just looking up healthy food and getting fit, then she found out how much calories shes supposed to have per day, then started becomming obsessive.... you know the drill, i guess..
(AND I'M PRETTY SURE T HERES MORE EATING DISORDERED LURKERS HERE THAN ANYOTHER PRO-ANNA SITE) either from wanting to be skinny or from wanting to be healthy, this site can get addictive

then my little sister saw it, copied it, and now shes STARTING...... i would look up the site's history and see her posts and junk and this is sad.....

honestly, whats the point of calorie count?........ i myself started .... a yesterday ago?.... and i too see myself on the computer a bit more frequently (used to be 0 minutes a day)....... just out of curiousity.
Calorie count may have been a site to help ppl get healthy and all that junk, but why can't ppl do that WITHOUT going on the computer and WITHOUT attracting other possible may be in future eating disorder ppl?



i think this'll be my last post...... i offiially quit after 2 days and forbid anyone in my family from seeing this site again......... its already messed up one of my closest friend (she wouldnt even touch that cake on my birthday........... because its not "healthy"...... not because she's trying to lose weight)

and i see alot of "healthy" ppl here on this site (or trying to) that try to help other people...... and....... honestly, from an outsider's view, its not that much of a help..... a disordered mind wud probably not even read what they don't want to read, and ur advices SUCKKK. i see the same post over and over again, too...... i'm pretty sure ALMOST EVERYONES seen those posts before.... but you knwo what? they won't accept it......... (hoe pyou know what i'm talking about)

sorry, just a little frusturated....... yell at me all you want, i wont be back :D
(as for those who successfuly lost weight or gained, congrats,)

i can definitel see what you're talking about. there are many people on here who have very unhealthy goals and try to reach them in very unhealthy ways. i see 14 year olds on this site who want to begin starving themselves essentially because they are growing up and of course, there bodies are changing. I can't believe it, and people will actually offer them advice about dieting. That is terrible!!

As a recovering anorexic, I beleive that this site does help me to get better, but for those on the other side of the spectrum I think it actually does more harm than good. SO many people on here exhibit the very mindset that leads to EDs and they don't even realize it, they fight it and tell themselves that they're different and being "underweight" is "healthy" for them, like they are an exception, but of course no one is an exception. Being underweight is unhealthy and people should encourage self acceptance rather than a rigorous subscription to the notion that a pound goal reached is the definition of success. That is bullsh*t and if you ask me doesn't place the value on being healthy and fit, rather than vain and thin, no matter how one gets there. Good for you that you've decided to put your foot down. It will do a world of good. People don't need this website to lose weight, they need self control. Eat EVERYTHING you want and eat those things in moderation if you know they're not the best choices. Pair you greasy slice of meatsa meatsa pizza with a salad and a water, after blotting of the excess grease and enjoy it. Don't swear off pizza or become obsessed with absolute numbers. If your habits are better than they used to be then naturally you'll see results, it doesn't have to become a battle against the calories or the pounds. we can eat the foods we enjoy and enjoy the changes that result if we just allow ourselves to. :)

Hm. I don't know, but I can see your point.  For me, though, this is the only weight-loss solution that WORKS for me.  And it's certainly more managable than crash-dieting.  So what would you rather have, someone doing this the completely unhealthy way, or someone who tries to use reasonable guidelines and a balanced method?  For anyone who has decided that losing weight is what they want, they're going to pick SOME method, or else give up. 

I'd rather be here.

Someone who comes to this site already has issues to deal with. It is up to them to decide how to moderate their lives. I love this site. It helps me put things into perspective and decern what I really want to put into the machine I call my body.

As for your friend, she is not "messed up" because she didn't want any of your birthday cake. She was not insulting you, she was just taking care of herself. My guess is that your cake probably was unheathy and she has a right to say no. This doesn't mean that she cares for you any less. Relationships are not about food.

Chrissy-- just a note. Weight control is not necessarily about  "self control" as you put it. There are actual scientfic reasons why people obtain appetitive disorders. It has alot to do with the types of foods we eat and how the chemicals bind to our cells.

I can't reiterate entire studies for you, but the high fat foods (comfort foods) that many people eat bind to the cells and tends to over excite them. Then the cells either die or become deformed. This causes the opponent process (what happens to drug addicts). As the cells die or deform, the brain signals the body to obtain more of the same chemicals, so that it can return to "normal". However, the body now needs more of the same chemical to create the same feel-good reaction. Thus more cells get excited and so forth.

Point being--food addiction is much the same as a drug addiction. The difference is that one cannot refrain from eating. So people who are addiction to high fat foods, should not eat them ever. One doesn't tell an alcoholic to drink in moderation and have some "self control".

I think CC definitely causes disordered eating.

And than it helps to cause some eating disorders.

However, despite being one of the unfortunate people who acquired an eating disorder through using calorie counting sites (and her own personality) I think CC does do more good than harm in general.

If an eating disorder includes repeatedly checking the nutritional values of food, and logging what I'm putting into my body, I guess I've got one.  

I can't complain though.  I've lost 15 pounds in 2 months and feel great.  

But, this site isn't for everybody. If you don't want to calorie count, don't do it.  I don't think you should restrict friends' and family' access from this site.  There are a lot worse things you could protect people against than healthy eating. 

It definately feeds eating disorders, trust my experience (lol shouldn't be here now :P but im happily recovered here hoping to help others and keep myself from an eating disorder, because people here would keep me on track? i dunno)

I could say it gave me my eating disorder, they shouldn't allow accounts under a certian age, kids shouldnt be calorie counting...really no one should, leave that job to your nutritionist and they just tell you what to eat when to eat it.

This site was originally to help adults loose weight, which sounds innocent enough, but thats not the internets job! thats a doctors job!

I deleted my old account, holbee, and returned with a new one...it's addictive, in a negative way, as someone said 'like poison' a perfect description.

Thank you for reminding me, But i can say once you have an eating disorder, you will never be able to eat or think about food naturally again, ill always be aware of my food intake, always be conscious of it. so why quit? to avoid feeding this obssession, but will it disappear on it's own...no.

I recovered really well, so Im strong, this site has never 'served' me, It's just been a curiousity of mine, a mindset needed to be avoided. so as strong as i know i am, I'm always capable of going back to my eating disorder, and i know it, you have to know which threads are trigering or not. I want this site to use my obsession in a healthy attitude, if it can.

Original Post by optimator88:

 

But, this site isn't for everybody. If you don't want to calorie count, don't do it.  I don't think you should restrict friends' and family' access from this site.  There are a lot worse things you could protect people against than healthy eating. 

 correction. worst thing anyone can experience (in my opinion) is an eating disorder, it depends how you use this site. but even then everyone on here is unnaturally always conscious of food.

Yes, you can protect them from drugs etc. but it all comes back to an unhealthily disturbed mind, which is what an eating disorder is. so let's find common ground - worst thing is bad emotional health - disturbia.

Original Post by chrissy1988:

i can definitel see what you're talking about. there are many people on here who have very unhealthy goals and try to reach them in very unhealthy ways. i see 14 year olds on this site who want to begin starving themselves essentially because they are growing up and of course, there bodies are changing. I can't believe it, and people will actually offer them advice about dieting. That is terrible!!

Maybe I'm just slightly paranoid, but I can't help but feel like you are targeting me out for answering questions a 14 year old girl had about veganism and her desire to join the lifestyle, seeing as it's a very recent topic at the top of the Weight Loss forums.

I have absolutely no qualms with encouraging a growing young woman to consume healthy fresh vegetables, whole grains, ample plant proteins, and healthy, natural fats.

What is terrible, is allowing uninformed young girls to assume what a healthy diet is regardless of the lifestyle.  These forums are, ideally, a sanctuary for people of all ages to share opinions, find motivation, and collect experinece-based information.  

It is terrible that a wonderful, free resource is abused by sick people who would be better served in a rehabilitation facility for women or men with eating disorders.  But blaming Calorie Count for eating disorders is like trying to blame the JcPenny spring catalog for pedophilia....ridiculous.

Sick people are going to use whatever resource is available to continue their sickness.  They would be ill with or without it.   

One has to consider that a computer or the availability to information that it lends does not cause disorders. It simply provides access to information that would otherwise be more difficult to obtain.  But this is nothing that can't be found in books or at nutrition stores or simply on the labels of the foods we eat.

Moreover, it also has to be considered the type of people that search out these type of sites. Those with the potential to have eating disorders will look for sites that deal with food. 

As for under aged individuals--where are the parents? My kids come to me for advice.

Last point--I think that it is unfair to blame an inanimate object (this site) for an individuals behavior. We each make our own decisions and are responsible for them. However, I will say that perhaps it is the mixed messages that we receive from the media and our culture. The magazines tell us to be an unhealthy thin on one page and provide food porn on the next. This is bound to send the wrong idea to someone.

Hum...I think this site help me a lot, but sometimes triggers me (pro-ana, thinspo...:/)

With CC, I discovered I have an ED and began seeking help. If I didn't read CC advices, I would probably still be starving myself, not knowing I was sick and that it was dangerous.

On the other hand, I hate how I'm so focused on foods...:(

Original Post by passions_child:

This site was originally to help adults loose weight, which sounds innocent enough, but thats not the internets job! thats a doctors job!

 

"the internet's job"?  So, what is the internets "job", if not to provide people with information and tools they want and/or need?

CC, and the internet, are tools - how they are used is an individual's responsibility. CC has worked for a lot of people, but if it's not the right tool for you, then avoid it.

And for the record, CC and the moderators consistently and diligently control these forums to discourage abuse, unhealthy advice, and provide reliable and authoritative information.  They even discourage the use of this site if it's unintentionally causing unhealthy habits.  And to my knowledge, most people on CC have never discouraged a person from seeking a doctor's advice, or have touted it as the only source of weight loss information and strategies.

Original Post by starttt:

**not saying CC doesnt help anyone... just saying it harms more

..... certainly did to my friend AND sister....... just hope i'm not next.
First started out with my friend, innocntly just looking up healthy food and getting fit, then she found out how much calories shes supposed to have per day, then started becomming obsessive.... you know the drill, i guess..
(AND I'M PRETTY SURE T HERES MORE EATING DISORDERED LURKERS HERE THAN ANYOTHER PRO-ANNA SITE) either from wanting to be skinny or from wanting to be healthy, this site can get addictive

then my little sister saw it, copied it, and now shes STARTING...... i would look up the site's history and see her posts and junk and this is sad.....

 

honestly, whats the point of calorie count?........ i myself started .... a yesterday ago?.... and i too see myself on the computer a bit more frequently (used to be 0 minutes a day)....... just out of curiousity.
Calorie count may have been a site to help ppl get healthy and all that junk, but why can't ppl do that WITHOUT going on the computer and WITHOUT attracting other possible may be in future eating disorder ppl?



i think this'll be my last post...... i offiially quit after 2 days and forbid anyone in my family from seeing this site again......... its already messed up one of my closest friend (she wouldnt even touch that cake on my birthday........... because its not "healthy"...... not because she's trying to lose weight)

 

 

and i see alot of "healthy" ppl here on this site (or trying to) that try to help other people...... and....... honestly, from an outsider's view, its not that much of a help..... a disordered mind wud probably not even read what they don't want to read, and ur advices SUCKKK. i see the same post over and over again, too...... i'm pretty sure ALMOST EVERYONES seen those posts before.... but you knwo what? they won't accept it......... (hoe pyou know what i'm talking about)

 

sorry, just a little frusturated....... yell at me all you want, i wont be back :D
(as for those who successfuly lost weight or gained, congrats,)

I don't know if it causes ED but I definitely think it enables.  The tools allow one to become obsessive if that is already within them.  I am definitely bothered by many of the posts here and have not been on this site in some time because of it.

CC has helped me and many others lose/gain a few pounds and learn about nutrition in a supportive environment. 

You bring your issues (and your strengths) with you where ever you go.   I do see people with eating disorders posting here, and I see them getting good advice.  It is up to them to take it or not. Better they are here getting information on how to get healthy rather than posting on some pro ana site. 

Most of us here don't have an eating disorder, though, if you have issues with food, it may seem to you that anyone trying to lose or gain has a disorder. Some of us are just using the tools the way they were meant to be used.

If CC is not helping you to recover from your eating disorder or worse is enabling it, then I strongly encourage you to delete your account and seek professional help in real life.

For many this site is a great tool, but if it isn't for you then you should definitely pursue other options.

I don't think that you can ever point to one thing (except a personally traumatic event) and say that it caused an eating disorder.  CC probably "enables" people who have EDs to get the info they want, but honestly they'd just find another way or reason to keep doing what they do.

one girl I know through LJ used to honestly convince herself that she was allergic to everything, or things made her sick, or whatever, and then wouldn't eat them.  She didn't even think she had a disorder, she was afraid to eat b/c of these "legit" reasons.

Just an example to show that you don't necessarily develop an ED because of REAL knowledge... often it's just the opposite.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to touch a birthday cake….. I am a clean eater and I am certainly never going to just shove ANY old food into my mouth when I have no idea weather there are any chemicals, additives, or artificial man made chemicals in it.. That is who I am and it is normal and fine to not want to eat just ANYTHING that is offered to you.

This site can be very dangerous if people use it the wrong way - people can come and start counting calories and that can lead to problems. But it is the person who has the underlying issues. There are MORE PEOPLE who DO NOT GET EATING DISORDERS from this site then THOSE WHO DO.

Some people have problems with losing weight, some people are very over weight and need to be educated about how many calories they need, and they CANNOT afford outside help, and this website is a god send to these people. It allows people a free tool to count their calories and calculators that teach them roughly how much they should be eating.

If it were not for this site, MANY people who still be over weight and uneducated about how much they should be eating.

I will certainly be directing my clients onto this site so they can keep track and keep accountable for what they eat.

People who abuse this site do not make it a bad site for EVERY one.

Oh, and some people recovering from anorexia and desperately need to gain weight need this site to help them eat ENOUGH. Although some are fortunate enough to have access to professionals, others are not so lucky and need this site to make sure they eat enough.

Interesting discussion.

I don't think CC "causes" eating disorders but I do think it may strengthen, reinforce or "enable" an existing ED.

The site can be extremely supportive, there are a lot of people here giving up their time to share opinions, experiences , tips and traps.

The issue may be that already vulnerable people use this site as a substitutefor qualified medical help, and use the tools to further track their obsession with food, calories, weight.

Another issue is that some may assume they are receiving expert advice ( I have seen this mistake made by posters assuming the mods are "experts" as opposed to goodwilled people willing to invest time in keeping a site on track, whilst sharing their own experiences ).

Personally I spend too much time here now, usually lurking..do I have an ED ? I think I am on the edge of one, as I admitted in a previous posting. Did CC cause my descent into ED ....No.   Does CC "feed" my obsession with calories and weight, regretably yes.  However, I still think the benefits of such a site outweigh the negatives..I just read too many posts from already vulnerable people who come here looking for support and do not have the emotional clarity of thinking ( or in some cases maturity ) to realise that they really need medical help and this isn't the place to obtain that help.

i will admit i have become a bit "obsessed" with this site....logging in any chance i get to record what i eat each day....but i have lost over 8 pounds since starting counting calories!

i am trying to eat healthier and i don't think there is anything wrong with that...i am not starving myself or hurting myself in any way, i am just more aware of what i eat.

having the information available on this site, and being able to track my food intake and weight loss is working for me, and that's why i love it! there are many other obsessions out there that are much worse....

i have friends who eat hardly anything, purge, and take dangerous weight loss pills in order to loose weight...if only they would just attempt to count calories and realize that they can still eat food and loose weight....

i highly recommend this website to anyone struggling to loose weight...and for the people out there who don't need to loose anything, they will find another way if they really want to...dangerous or not.....

Original Post by dkiesser:

Chrissy-- just a note. Weight control is not necessarily about  "self control" as you put it. There are actual scientfic reasons why people obtain appetitive disorders. It has alot to do with the types of foods we eat and how the chemicals bind to our cells.

I can't reiterate entire studies for you, but the high fat foods (comfort foods) that many people eat bind to the cells and tends to over excite them. Then the cells either die or become deformed. This causes the opponent process (what happens to drug addicts). As the cells die or deform, the brain signals the body to obtain more of the same chemicals, so that it can return to "normal". However, the body now needs more of the same chemical to create the same feel-good reaction. Thus more cells get excited and so forth.

Point being--food addiction is much the same as a drug addiction. The difference is that one cannot refrain from eating. So people who are addiction to high fat foods, should not eat them ever. One doesn't tell an alcoholic to drink in moderation and have some "self control".

I was speaking in a general sense. More people than not, don't have the problems that you've indicated. I acknowledge that there are people who are truly addicted to food either because of a hormonal imbalance that prevents the proper neurotransmitters from being released regularly thus causing individuals to seek the gratification elicited by food. i know this, and i wasn't intending to undermine that point. i was simply saying that individuals don't have to resort to such rigid and self destructive behaviors in order to lose weight, they can simply modify the amounts that they're eating and become more aware of their choices. calories don't even HAVE to be counted, as long as you're eating less than you were and moving more, it is inevitable that one would lose weight, irrespective of the absolute number of calories in whatever food is being eaten. That's all I meant.

I also acknowledge that this site can be very helpful and useful for anyone looking to change something about their weight, whether gaining or losing, but it is TOO EASILY abused and turns into an obssession that doesn't go away even after the goals are met. the rigid fixation on what the scale says and what the calorie count is in a certain food can cause anxiety, stress, preoccupation with food, and CAN eventually lead to an eating disorder, granted it is completely individual based but this site has the potential to fuel the bad behavior. 

I also don't believe that children 16 and under should be allowed on the site, they have yet to reach puberty and they are trying to force their bodies into a prepubescent mold, which is not at all healthy. when i made my comment about making dietary recommendations to young children i was not targeting anyone at all. i meant it in a general sense because i think sometimes people respond without really taking into account the age of the person seeking advice, which really does make a huge difference. If you were told that an adult, a teacher, a best friend was offering dieting advice to your 12 year old daughter who thinks she's fat but really just has baby fat still and is growing, you might be a bit pissed. at least, when it comes to my little sister that's how i am. i just don't like the idea of perpetuating the mentality that THIN at all costs is what matters, rather than health. i think "thinness" should be a byproduct of healthiness and the focus needs to shift, unfortunately often times, there are too many vain people focused on getting into a size 0 even though their skeleton would be a size 2, if you get what i mean. i know the moderators attempt to patrol the boards in an effort to keep people from promoting unhealthy behaviors, but there are still a handful of individuals who say and do what they want, including making comments that lead people to adopt unhealthy habits. All in all, I still support the site as you can see. i am on it all the time and I should probably cut back but i guess i'm one of the victims of the addiction. however, i am getting healthier, since my goal is to gain and overcome an ED. wow...long post and a bit of a rant but yeah! just my thoughts. :)