I Am So Tired

As of the latest numbers, see my log for the calculations, I am running just under 1950 average cal deficit a day. And my intake is just a bit under 2300 cals a day. I have been running this high cal deficit because of the added workouts I began 18 days ago.

But now it is time to move outside of just doing workouts, and get some other things done around here. Because, I have to admit, these workouts have been wasting me. But they have done what I wanted. Got my daily burn up to a much better level, and tacked about 300 cals a day onto my deficit.

My plan here is to continue the workouts as I have been doing. But slowly begin to add in outside work that needs done around here. So my burn should rise. And, if I don’t increase my cals, so will my deficit.

But, right now, I can pay the price for this deficit level. However, I don’t think going above a 2000 cal a day deficit is the smart thing to do right now.

So my question is, do I go ahead and bump my daily cal intake up now (from 2300 to 2500), or do I go ahead and get in what yard work I can, and if my deficit rises above 2000, then raise my cal intake?

I know 2000 is a pretty high deficit, but I am pretty sure my fat stores are still so high that I have little chance of slipping into starvation mode at this time.

Thanks

 

 

Dude no wonder you feel like crap,  you should feel wasted  (thats your body trying to tell you something and perhaps you should listen).  You need to eat more.  that is way to big of a deficit.  Your body needs that energy to get through those workouts.  Keep it at 500 to 1000 max.   Seriously it doesn't matter how much fat you have,  your body still needs energy to function.  Your metabolism can still stall out no matter what your weight is.   Maybe not starvation mode but it WILL slow down if you are not feeding your body properly.  Fuel your body and your workouts.  Sheesh

Are you running these very high defecits under the care of a doctor?

This web site only supports proven, healthy methods of weight loss -- the good old 1-2 lbs a week that you get from a 500-1000 calorie daily defecit.

I can understand if your weight is extra high, that you might be able to get away with higher defecits for a while, but I'd hope you'd do so under a doctor's care.

And if you're so tired from your workouts that getting your daily chores is so difficult, that might be your best clue right there... to go ahead and add 100 cals and see if that improves your energy and if not, add another 100 cals the next day until you are no longer sapped.

:)

If you are eating 2300 cals per day and still running that much of a deficit, even if your BMR is around 2000, another 1800 calories in burn is like ... 3 HOURS on the ski machine!!

You didn't post any of your stats, you probably should (personal and an overview of your work/exercise, too.)  Also your goals (losing weight and how much; building muscle; maintaining and toning ... etc.)

I'm not one of them, but there are several helpful folks on this site who could review those for you and give you some good tips.

Hi Duke,

wow that's a massive deficit you got going there and it's never a good sign to feel tired when doing exercises. Yes you should be physically exhausted when done but then eat back the calories you burned and feel energized from it.

What is your BMR? I was told by a few people that your body goes into starvation mode if you eat half or less than half your bmr. Maybe look into that.

Ok.  Basic stuff.  Started in Feb. of this year when I finally fell below the maxed out level (600 pounds) on the scale at the Health Clinic I go to (no insurance). 

My goal is 275 by 09-09-09, and, as of today, I am at 440.  And I'm 46, and stand 6'7".  Blood Pressues run around 120/70, and resting pulse is 60-64.  Best workout heart rate I have been able to manage is 94.  Just can't push it above that level. 

I see a RN Practitioner every 4 weeks, and he tells me, except for the weight, I'm in great shape.  And he does know about the high deficits.  But my thinking, and the doc agrees with me here, is that I have to keep this run up for as long as possible. 

The one thing you have to take into account here is that I am one or two, and in some dases three, standard deviations away from the norm on just about everything.  So the normal rules don't always apply. 

And my doc and I have addressed the issue of beginning to lower the deficit, but he wants to wait until I hit about 350 to worry about that.    

As for my workouts.  They are a collection of stuff I have found online, and some other stuff I can remember.  A full workout starts with about 30-35 min. of calithenics to work up a good sweat.  Followed by free weights for another 30 - 35 mins.  Then stretching for anthor 40 mins.  I do the long workouts on M-W-F.

Then I have a short workout I do on T-TH-S.  This is just the calisthinics followed by a stretching session that is each stretch for one 50 count, instead of two of each stretch that I do on long workout days. 

For more detail feel free to check my journal.

 

 

 

I would very seriously consider adding 1000 more to your diet asap. I started at 360 and at 2500 cals I was dropping 5-6lb a week and I got sick from it.

Well it seems to me you wanted to know why you feel all crappy and its because you are not eating enough.  Why ask for advice if you are only looking for people to tell you what you are doing is fine.  You feel shitty cause you are not eating enough end of story

I don’t think that’s quite the question I asked. I know why I am tired. Like I said, a price I am willing to pay right now.

What I was asking was if I should go ahead and raise my cals as I try to become more active outside, or should I wait to see if this burn level holds first.

And what did I get back. Eat more. Your losing too much too fast. Well, when you find another 600 pounder in his forties, see if he thinks what I did was too extreme. But you will have to look pretty hard, most of them are dead.

Yes, I’m doing something outside the box, but if CC+, and the community, think what I am doing is too extreme I will just keep to myself.

BTW, the local Y is basically blowing me off. Why should I be surprised. Just like here apparently. If your outside the norm, please go away and die.

I made it this far by myself. I’ll make it the rest of the way by myself as well. 

 

 

To look at it another way, is it just tiredness or do you have other signs of too big a deficit? For example:

• Is your skin drier and dull?
• Is your hair less shiny? Are you losing hair or does it break easily?
• Are your fingernails duller and softer? Do they break or snag easily?
• Have you had wounds that didn't heal as quickly as usual?
• Do you have bone and/or joint pain?

Any of these may be signs of malnutrition (overweight people can be malnourished). If so, it may well be that your deficit is too large for the state your body is in now.

Personally, every time I've had any of those symptoms, I've lowered my deficit and felt better after a few weeks. But your mileage may vary.

Your question:

So my question is, do I go ahead and bump my daily cal intake up now (from 2300 to 2500), or do I go ahead and get in what yard work I can, and if my deficit rises above 2000, then raise my cal intake?

The answers you've gotten are to bump up your daily calorie intake. And then you are mad because people answered your question with "eat more," when that's exactly what you were asking about??

I'm confused...

But okay, I've been confused before!

My suggestion is to bump up your intake. I'm sorry if you don't like that suggestion, but you did ask!! :-D

Feeling "so tired" is not good, regardless of whether you're willing to pay that price. You don't have to feel like crap to lose weight. (In fact, I would think that feeling like crap would make it more difficult to eat well and exercise, but hey, what do I know.)

In addition to being tired, you seem a little cranky, too... sorry!!!!!

You're headed in the right direction, as you know (and that's fabulous, which you also know, and inspirational, which you might not realize), and eating more sometimes leads to greater weight loss, so ....

Eat more!

(You asked!! And please, don't shoot the messenger!!!!!)

I would say that being willing to pay the price in the short term is admirable, but you yourself are calling this taxing.  I admire your progress so far!  Just don't kill yourself in this process.  I think that's what we're all trying to tell you in our own way.  

 I agree that you should see if you show other signs of malnutrition or if its just being tired in general.  But if you feel like you really need more food and you're planning to add yet more activity you will need to add that on to have the energy to do what you need to get done.  Especially on your "long workout" days.  

On the other hand if you think that you're just tired and that you're being careful and that you can sustain your effort, do what you think is best.  See what you are capeable of.  You don't want to back slide and eat too much and gain the weight back either.  

 Good luck in your efforts!

I am sorry about the post above, and yes I know my short temper is somewhat caused by the high deficits I’m running. I am just tired of every time I ask a question that involves details of what I have done, and what I will be doing, I have to defend myself.

Once again I am sorry for the outburst.

But to answer the questions above. My skin is beginning to clear up from some very bad acne I have always had, but dry or dull? No. My hair is shiny and healthy, and, if anything, my nails are harder than they were before. And as for healing? I heal super fast. My blood is a bit thin right now due to the aspirin, but my ability to heal quickly has not diminished at all.

As for the joint aches and pain. Well, I broke my back playing football 30 years ago next month. So yeah, I’ve had aches and pains in my joints for the last 30 years. However, I was feeling the best I have felt in years (except for being tired all the time), but when we started to cool off, my joints went from a 3-4 on a 10 point pain scale, to about a 5-6 most of the time. But I’ve been living everyday of the last 30 years in pain.

One last time here. I am not in any sort of starvation mode. If you don’t believe me fine. But this is all my choice. And as long as I’m losing weight while keeping my muscle intact, I’m going to keep doing what is working. And when I decide (not my doc, not the CC+ tools) that it is time to reduce my deficit. Then, and only then, will I do it.

My question was not asking anyone’s opinion of my methods. It was asking whether I should wait for another weigh in to prove these burn numbers, or should I go ahead and bump up my intake a couple of hundred cals.

All this over such a simple question.

And, btw, I was mostly upset by the poster who said I was asking why I am tired.  I clearly did not ask this question.  I asked if I should go ahead and raise my cals a couple of hundred.  And yes, I already knew the answer. 

I was just looking for some support for what is always a tough thing for me to do.  Raise my cals.  It scares me everytime. 

And as far as death goes.  In the days when I was first coming out of my post ADD haze, I told my DW, I told my Doc, and I told my dad.  It's either the weight or it's me.  One of the two of us will be gone by 09-09-09.  And why do folk worry about death so much?  None of us are getting out alive.  And at 45 years old, and 600+ pounds, I was dead already.

Once again my apologies for being cranky, and I will be shooting for the 2500 cal level from here on in. 

 

Thanks

Duke of Indiana 

 

I know this isn't what you asked for Duke... But i just want to say... YOU CAN DO IT! You are doing awesome already!

 Actually, your reported symptoms seems to me to be a product of classical overtraining.

 You see, they're a lot like mine when I'm nearing the end of a three-week progressive-overload lifting cycle - the body's recuperative abilities get overtaxed in about three weeks of following a heavy workout schedule.

 If the trainer at the Y hadn't been a moron, he'd have told you that your training schedule seems fine, exept you need to include the concept of periodization in your training to get maximum result. After three weeks of progressive overload with resistance training you need to take a deloading/back-off period of three weeks where you lower your training volume and intensity to 2/3 of your max level to allow your body to fully recuperate. After three weeks of lower-volume training you go back to working as intensely as you've been doing these past three weeks - for another three weeks. If you keep doing this, cycling between 3-up and 3-down weeks then you can deliberately push yourself into a state of near-overtraining each 3-up cycle and then recover in the 3-down cycle without ever putting yourself into actual overtraining where your body starts metabolizing muscle.

  In practice, for you this will probably mean that for the next three weeks you'll swap your weights for the gardening, instead of adding them, thus allowing your body time to recuperate and prepare for your next three-week bout of intense workout. That is, you'll do just the callisthenics and stretching every day, and then do whatever strikes your fancy of the outdoors work. That should give you adequate volume and intensity of resistance to be a back-off/deloading phase, plus you'll have the mental boost of getting things done around the place.

  Since you're doing this under at least some form of medical supervision it appears you've got control over the calorie deficit. Therefore, personally I'd wait to see how your body responds to the deloading phase before I'd alter any other variable in your training regime. However, it's possible that the systemic stress of the large calorie deficit in addition to the workouts means you'll need to up your calories slightly in the deloading phase to properly recuperate - I noticed a great deal of improvement by adding 150-200 calories of protein to my diet.

  As for your increased joint pains - my family's prone to arthritic joint pains, and I notice that my fingers ache when I'm pushing myself into overtraining on the 3-up part. Omega-3 fish oil and CLA  supplements have helped me control those symptoms.

 Hope that was more along the lines of what you were looking for?

melkor,

An extremely well reasoned and thouthful answer.  I am just ending the first three weeks of this new program.  And will admit that I am tired and 'Cranky'.  And this sounds like a plan I can wrap my brain around.

And since the weather is suppose to be nice the next couple of weeks, I think this is an excellent plan. 

Do you think I should kick out the weights i use for sit-ups as well?

Thanks

Duke

duke, sounds like you are doing land based exercise?  Do you have access to a pool and water aerobics exercise?  It has helped me be able to exercise in the pool

also, I found when I started more intense exercise that I needed a snack before the exercise and also after.  The snack was 200 - 300 cals with both carb & protein, and it helped to reduce the fatigue.  So, yes, I upped my cals some when I started the intense exercise, but not as much as i burned ;)

 Weighted situps are fine, just reduce them a bit - to about 2/3 of the weight you've been using this last week. Also, do about 2/3 the number of situps you've been doing - this will let your abs recover and build up to be stronger for the next three weeks.  When you increase the training intensity again three weeks from now you'll notice that you'll be able to move more weight around in all your exercises - sometimes a lot more weight for your larger muscle groups.

 You get used to the cranky and tired after a while, once you know that you're going to feel like that every three weeks or so and that it's a sign your program is working. And that it's high time to do the 3-down weeks next to let your body build up new muscle and rebuild metabolic endurance. I'm in week 2 of my own 3-down cycle right now, and there's one thing that's important to remember: even if I feel like I can handle upping the intensity next week, I'll be shortchanging myself by not allowing my body adequate rest. Even if I'm itching to go lift hard - because if I only take a 2-down cycle, my body willl only be able to handle a 2-up cycle and that means less overall improvement. Same will probably hold true for you at week 2 of the 3-down deloading phase - if you give yourself adequate rest and recuperation you'll be able to lift heavier than ever after 3-down weeks.

I just wanted to second what melkor said. I was working out pretty intensly and when I took a bit of a break it really helped kickstart my weight loss again.

It is good to give your body a little bit of a break to recover, then when you start up again the workouts seem to be a lot more productive.

Congratulations, you have already done something amazing.

It's probably always a good idea to have a look at someone's profile before jumping in and posting....

what am I missing? he has lost 160 pounds, that is amazing to me.