Not trying to start crap, just want to know... how many people here are actually Vegan?

As in no animal products whatsoever (including honey)

I have been vegan for 13 years! Drop in and say hi if you're vegan too! We can support each other with our fitness goals!

Original Post by steffsheff:

Original Post by wifi92:

It would depend if it is the "kook fringe religious" vegetarians, or the more normal "no meat" ones.  As for animals, God is compassionate enough to give them to us to eat, and to serve mankind.  Animals aren't human, don't have rights, and are instinct driven.  The elitist vegetarians, who lecture everyone else about eating, gives the whole vegetarian believers a bad name, imo.

 That is a bit of an ignorant statement if you ask me. Not everyone believes in your "God". Personally, I believe that all animals have a purpose and deserve to live a life free from cruelty and exploitation (and let me remind you that humans are animals too). I am a vegan, I am not a "kook fringe religious" vegetarian and I am not elitist. I make my own choices as to what I eat, wear, believe and I expect everyone else to make their own choices too; everyone must draw their own lines according to what they believe is right for them.

There is only one God, and that is not dependent on if we think He is real, or not.  God simply is, no matter what anyone thinks of Him.  God created mankind in His image, no animal qualifies for that.  Just because someone simply says that animals have rights doesn't make it so.  Animals are a creation of the Creator.  Creations of the Creator aren't intended for worshiping.  If one does not want to eat the animals (one purpose of animals) created for eating, there is a plant alternative that one can freely choose.  It's a "personal taste and preference" issue, not a moral issue.  I used the color of my dry off towel example before.  Any color towel dries me off after a shower, I am not "more moral" by using a certain color towel, it's preference.  Anyway, all groups have the "your are not really a ________ if you do or don't do __________ within them.  All groups have a kook fringe elitist element, imo.

Hilarious....

*I wonder if the irony is lost of wifi; being a religious zealot himself?*

TROLL ALERT!

Top effort wifi92, but it's a FAIL.

Hi, i'm an actual vegan. :D

Original Post by steffsheff:

Hilarious....

*I wonder if the irony is lost of wifi; being a religious zealot himself?*

No, just stating convictions with passion, like those here.  Nothing is meant as a personal attack, unless the reader chooses to take it like that.  One of God's creatures talking about his Creator is very normal.

Original Post by xdarthveganx:

I wish we had an actual vegan forum here, all the pescetarian threads are frustrating for me.

wait so you are into linux and anarchism but you're website is myspace.
that's fairly frustrating.

Original Post by wifi92:

Original Post by steffsheff:

Hilarious....

*I wonder if the irony is lost of wifi; being a religious zealot himself?*

No, just stating convictions with passion, like those here.  Nothing is meant as a personal attack, unless the reader chooses to take it like that.  One of God's creatures talking about his Creator is very normal.

how about you read genesis fromt the start?

you claiming god created animals so we could eat them is simply put: disgusting

I'd rather say 'god gave us the ability to NOT eat animals' and you refuse to use it. you obviously don't have much trust in your creator

oh, and I love how the OP asked for actual vegans to reply and nobody cares. lol.

Original Post by when_i_fly_and_look_down:

Original Post by xdarthveganx:

I wish we had an actual vegan forum here, all the pescetarian threads are frustrating for me.

wait so you are into linux and anarchism but you're website is myspace.
that's fairly frustrating.

I am on a number of websites, myspace is just one of them. Also, myspace has a pretty active linux group.

I would like to add, the idea that someone should not feel guilty about supporting an industry that kills 60 BILLION animals a year for food, and is completely destroying our planet is ludicrous.

Make no mistake about it, this is an ethical issue and like any other ethical issue we must take a stand.

vegan. yup.

Original Post by xdarthveganx:

I would like to add, the idea that someone should not feel guilty about supporting an industry that kills 60 BILLION animals a year for food, and is completely destroying our planet is ludicrous.

 

Make no mistake about it, this is an ethical issue and like any other ethical issue we must take a stand.

do you buy boca burgers or silk soy milk? many of these vegetarian products are owned by meat and dairy companies. so i'd say that someone who is buying local organic grass fed beef or catching a fish with a line and hook near their home (which will last for several meal. also assuming there is a 'clean' body of water near them) is making a better decision for the earth, others and themselves than those who choose to buy those kind of goods that have to be shipped and packaged from far off places.

guilt shouldn't stem from eating meat. guilt should stem from the way the animals are raised and killed, the large quantity of meat that is consumed and the effect that has on the earth. you shouldn't make someone feel guilty for being an omnivore. plenty of animals are omnivores. it isn't murder when a bear eats a fish, is it?

i'm not saying anyone should discontinue their vegan diets that has a healthy response to such. but i think people lose sight of what's really important. we should try to keep the planet as close to it's natural state as possible. that discludes factory farms and commericial fishing but includes an omnivorous diet.
if vegans continue to spend time trying to get EVERYone to convert to veganism they will miss the oppurtunity they had to pursuade the same people against something more important, to stop supporting factory farming.

Well I was vegan..then I fell off the wagon..and no i didn't eat honey. But I am in the process of mentally getting myself back there again..But I loved being vegan even though I definitely did have my struggles for sure!

Original Post by when_i_fly_and_look_down:

Original Post by xdarthveganx:

I would like to add, the idea that someone should not feel guilty about supporting an industry that kills 60 BILLION animals a year for food, and is completely destroying our planet is ludicrous.

 

Make no mistake about it, this is an ethical issue and like any other ethical issue we must take a stand.

do you buy boca burgers or silk soy milk? many of these vegetarian products are owned by meat and dairy companies. so i'd say that someone who is buying local organic grass fed beef or catching a fish with a line and hook near their home (which will last for several meal. also assuming there is a 'clean' body of water near them) is making a better decision for the earth, others and themselves than those who choose to buy those kind of goods that have to be shipped and packaged from far off places.

guilt shouldn't stem from eating meat. guilt should stem from the way the animals are raised and killed, the large quantity of meat that is consumed and the effect that has on the earth. you shouldn't make someone feel guilty for being an omnivore. plenty of animals are omnivores. it isn't murder when a bear eats a fish, is it?

i'm not saying anyone should discontinue their vegan diets that has a healthy response to such. but i think people lose sight of what's really important. we should try to keep the planet as close to it's natural state as possible. that discludes factory farms and commericial fishing but includes an omnivorous diet.
if vegans continue to spend time trying to get EVERYone to convert to veganism they will miss the oppurtunity they had to pursuade the same people against something more important, to stop supporting factory farming.

that's the thing, though. veganism is not about stopping factory farming

plus, even if this burger you mentioned is owned by a meat firm, it's still sending a signal. fact is most 'specifially vegan' foods are NOT sold in normal supermarkets. and the majority of people can't afford always buying organic.

not forgetting to mention that most 'long time' vegans don't even touch all the fake stuff. I for one can say about myself that the only 'burgers' I eat are either done at home, usually with falafel, OR if I get around to it from vegan fast food places.

you know how many people live on this planet. it's ridiculous to assume we would NOT have a negative impact on it if we all started hunting our own food.

what we need is a change of mind, and for most people that little switch is going with 'vegan' fast food at first, before they discover that a vegan diet is not 'limited' at all. (yet alone the fact that being vegan isn't about a diet to begin with)

Original Post by soiamme:

Original Post by when_i_fly_and_look_down:

Original Post by xdarthveganx:

I would like to add, the idea that someone should not feel guilty about supporting an industry that kills 60 BILLION animals a year for food, and is completely destroying our planet is ludicrous.

 

Make no mistake about it, this is an ethical issue and like any other ethical issue we must take a stand.

do you buy boca burgers or silk soy milk? many of these vegetarian products are owned by meat and dairy companies. so i'd say that someone who is buying local organic grass fed beef or catching a fish with a line and hook near their home (which will last for several meal. also assuming there is a 'clean' body of water near them) is making a better decision for the earth, others and themselves than those who choose to buy those kind of goods that have to be shipped and packaged from far off places.

guilt shouldn't stem from eating meat. guilt should stem from the way the animals are raised and killed, the large quantity of meat that is consumed and the effect that has on the earth. you shouldn't make someone feel guilty for being an omnivore. plenty of animals are omnivores. it isn't murder when a bear eats a fish, is it?

i'm not saying anyone should discontinue their vegan diets that has a healthy response to such. but i think people lose sight of what's really important. we should try to keep the planet as close to it's natural state as possible. that discludes factory farms and commericial fishing but includes an omnivorous diet.
if vegans continue to spend time trying to get EVERYone to convert to veganism they will miss the oppurtunity they had to pursuade the same people against something more important, to stop supporting factory farming.

that's the thing, though. veganism is not about stopping factory farming

plus, even if this burger you mentioned is owned by a meat firm, it's still sending a signal. fact is most 'specifially vegan' foods are NOT sold in normal supermarkets. and the majority of people can't afford always buying organic.

not forgetting to mention that most 'long time' vegans don't even touch all the fake stuff. I for one can say about myself that the only 'burgers' I eat are either done at home, usually with falafel, OR if I get around to it from vegan fast food places.

 

you know how many people live on this planet. it's ridiculous to assume we would NOT have a negative impact on it if we all started hunting our own food.

what we need is a change of mind, and for most people that little switch is going with 'vegan' fast food at first, before they discover that a vegan diet is not 'limited' at all. (yet alone the fact that being vegan isn't about a diet to begin with)

being vegan for many people (including myself when i was vegan) is partly about stopping factory farming. it's an inhumane, irresponsible practice that is killing the earth and making human and non-human animals alike very sick.

sure buying a boca patty instead of a meat patty is sending a signal. but it's not a permanent or the best solution.

but that's not even the point i was really trying to make. the point is that omnivores are often condemned for eating meat and are labeled cruel, murderers and misinformed. i was simply pointing out that an omnivore who buys organic grass fed beef from the farmers market isn't contributing to a company that supports factory farming or receiving a product that needs lots of packaging or is shipped across the country. which is more than a vegan buying a boca burger can say. and that should be rewarded not condemned!

and i know long time vegans and vegetarians. some of them do eat these patties fairly frequently. obviously some choose not to.

if people hunted their own meat for 6 ounce servings a day/every other day it wouldn't really be that much meat.

and the problem is not that the planet isn't meant to sustain humans hunting and eating meat. it's not meant to sustain the urban sprawl, over population, pollution, eradication (in some cases total eradication) of species and many more unnatural things that effect the way we eat and live. native people hunted animals and ate them. it was rarely a problem because they knew not to hunt too many animals or the populations (their food source) would dwindle. they also fortified theirs diets with crops and fish.

i'm not by any means saying a vegan diet isn't helpful or an answer. i'm just saying it's not THE answer. just one of many answers that is right for some people. everyone should do what they think is best for both them, others and the earth. everyone should talk and share their ideas instead of being cut down the moment they mention they eat meat. everyone has different ideas and the key is to talk respectfully with others. because there is no way any real progress will be made if everyone is constantly trying to undermine each other.

p.s. sorry if this is confusing. i wrote the when_i_fly_and_look_down reply to xdarthveganx. i'm obviously under a different user name now.

Original Post by misscherryjane:

Original Post by misscherryjane:

Original Post by soiamme:

what's vegan too, then? wearing wool or silk? (the production of silk is even more disgusting than fur)

Hi, just out of interest, what's un-vegan, or cruel about wearing wool?

Obviously having sheepSKIN, rugs or leather shoes or whatever is totally different as the animal had to die for you to get it's skin but the animals aren't harmed during shearing. If sheep aren't shorn every summer they can get heatstroke/heatstress.

Can anyone answer this as I am honestly interested? I was quite surprised to hear that vegans don't use wool!

The reason is that not only the use of wool exploiting an animal; but the means of wool production are very cruel as well. Sheep are very often shorn in cold weather to encourage faster production of wool - so they literally grow more wool than they normally would because they've been made to be too cold. And in addition to that think about what happens to the sheep when their "usefulness" as wool-bearers ends. Do you think they're allowed to live out a natural life? Not at all. They are killed and used in lower grade meat production as well.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with wearing wool if I knew that the sheep were treated well, not over-shorn and allowed to live long and happy lives, but in this day and age that just isn't the case.

To hit on the God issue again, it is true that God gave us animals to eat. We originally had everything we needed in the Garden of Eden, but when Adam fell to sin all that perfection was taken away. In fact, there is even a book 'The Makers Diet' that outlines an eating regime as dictated by the scriptures and includes meat.

On the flip side, when people ask me why I choose not to eat meat i tell them that i have no problem eating meat, dairy and eggs if i knew the animals were taken care of and raised according to God in the first place. Then i think about antibiotics, hormones, prodding and steroids... then i want to adopt a calf

and a piglet

and a sheep.....

*also, with regard to a bear eating a fish and calling it murder, a bear is also designed to eat said fish. A bear has protrusive canines capable of searing flesh and a stomach loaded with enzymes capable of dealing with the raw meat. Meanwhile, a human needs to catch, filet, marinate, cook and garnish the fish in order to eat it. Again, im not shunning the omnivores of the world... meat is neat. I choose not to and if your all ok with that then who am i to judge?

I'm not a Christian so I don't buy into the "God gave us animals to eat" thing - no offense meant to you - I just don't think it's possible to make a definitive statement like that based on one particular religion's viewpoint.  

A vegan diet is not only healthier, but kinder to the planet. Human beings were never meant to be meat eaters. Look at our teeth: they are flat and made for grinding grain and vegetables.  By contrast, look at a true carnivore's teeth: sharp and pointed and made for ripping flesh. And most importantly, animals have souls. They have feelings. They have as much a right to live their lives as we do. I think it's very arrogant for us as humans to decide that our lives are worth more than theirs. Sure, we are (in certain ways) the most intelligent animals on the planet, but that's all the more reason to use our intelligence wisely. We don't need to eat meat. That's why tens of thousands of years ago we used our intelligence to cultivate agriculture so we could rise above the grunting snarling animals who indiscriminately killed other animals for food acting on nothing but their base instincts.

Original Post by gardyloo11:

I'm not a Christian so I don't buy into the "God gave us animals to eat" thing - no offense meant to you - I just don't think it's possible to make a definitive statement like that based on one particular religion's viewpoint.  

A vegan diet is not only healthier, but kinder to the planet. Human beings were never meant to be meat eaters. Look at our teeth: they are flat and made for grinding grain and vegetables.  By contrast, look at a true carnivore's teeth: sharp and pointed and made for ripping flesh. And most importantly, animals have souls. They have feelings. They have as much a right to live their lives as we do. I think it's very arrogant for us as humans to decide that our lives are worth more than theirs. Sure, we are (in certain ways) the most intelligent animals on the planet, but that's all the more reason to use our intelligence wisely. We don't need to eat meat. That's why tens of thousands of years ago we used our intelligence to cultivate agriculture so we could rise above the grunting snarling animals who indiscriminately killed other animals for food acting on nothing but their base instincts.

our teeth aren't as sharp because we have hands, thumbs, can stand upright and use tools. we don't need large teeth to eat an animal with because we have other ways of preparing an animal to be eaten. we have both sharp teeth and flat teeth for grinding which is the trait of an omnivore. we've been eating meat for many many years and when we were apes we were omnivores as well.

it's not arrogant to eat an animal. non-human animals do it on a daily basis. it's not called arrogance when an animal eats another animal. it's called the food chain.

on the other hand it is called arrogance when you kill animals for game, cram animals in large building in torturous conditions and destroy the environment/other animal's habitats as though the only animals that matter are human animals. but you shouldn't confuse the two. there are ways of eating animals without supporting the unnatural and destructive ways of modern food production.

and as for agriculture. we started agriculture so that we could guarantee and improve our quality of vegetation. we didn't do it so that we could stop being omnivorous.

and those grunting snarling animals that you are talking about do have instincts that tell them to eat meat. they have that instinct because it's what is best for their body. you make it sound stupid to have that instinct because they don't have the intelligence we have to choose our diet. but that instinct is keeping them alive. that doesn't sound very stupid to me. and as for humans, we have brains and nutritional science to base our decisions on. everyone should try to make the decisions that are best for their bodies, others and the earth.

Original Post by gardyloo11:

I'm not a Christian so I don't buy into the "God gave us animals to eat" thing - no offense meant to you - I just don't think it's possible to make a definitive statement like that based on one particular religion's viewpoint.  

A vegan diet is not only healthier, but kinder to the planet. Human beings were never meant to be meat eaters. Look at our teeth: they are flat and made for grinding grain and vegetables.  By contrast, look at a true carnivore's teeth: sharp and pointed and made for ripping flesh. And most importantly, animals have souls. They have feelings. They have as much a right to live their lives as we do. I think it's very arrogant for us as humans to decide that our lives are worth more than theirs. Sure, we are (in certain ways) the most intelligent animals on the planet, but that's all the more reason to use our intelligence wisely. We don't need to eat meat. That's why tens of thousands of years ago we used our intelligence to cultivate agriculture so we could rise above the grunting snarling animals who indiscriminately killed other animals for food acting on nothing but their base instincts.

it's hardly a christian concept - yet alone a doctrine - that 'animals are made for us to be eaten'. that's ridiculous to think to begin with, after all according to genesis humans were created last, and IF you go by that (eh, not that it would make much sense but that's a different topic) then obviously the creator would have made humans and then the food, not the other way around...

fact is... christians who justify their meat-eating by god 'giving' us animals to eat can shove it, really. neither is that statement really biblical, nor is it even practicable in today's society with all the nutritional knowledge we have.

blargh.

Original Post by my_body_is_a_cage:

Original Post by soiamme:

Original Post by when_i_fly_and_look_down:

Original Post by xdarthveganx:

I would like to add, the idea that someone should not feel guilty about supporting an industry that kills 60 BILLION animals a year for food, and is completely destroying our planet is ludicrous.

 

Make no mistake about it, this is an ethical issue and like any other ethical issue we must take a stand.

do you buy boca burgers or silk soy milk? many of these vegetarian products are owned by meat and dairy companies. so i'd say that someone who is buying local organic grass fed beef or catching a fish with a line and hook near their home (which will last for several meal. also assuming there is a 'clean' body of water near them) is making a better decision for the earth, others and themselves than those who choose to buy those kind of goods that have to be shipped and packaged from far off places.

guilt shouldn't stem from eating meat. guilt should stem from the way the animals are raised and killed, the large quantity of meat that is consumed and the effect that has on the earth. you shouldn't make someone feel guilty for being an omnivore. plenty of animals are omnivores. it isn't murder when a bear eats a fish, is it?

i'm not saying anyone should discontinue their vegan diets that has a healthy response to such. but i think people lose sight of what's really important. we should try to keep the planet as close to it's natural state as possible. that discludes factory farms and commericial fishing but includes an omnivorous diet.
if vegans continue to spend time trying to get EVERYone to convert to veganism they will miss the oppurtunity they had to pursuade the same people against something more important, to stop supporting factory farming.

that's the thing, though. veganism is not about stopping factory farming

plus, even if this burger you mentioned is owned by a meat firm, it's still sending a signal. fact is most 'specifially vegan' foods are NOT sold in normal supermarkets. and the majority of people can't afford always buying organic.

not forgetting to mention that most 'long time' vegans don't even touch all the fake stuff. I for one can say about myself that the only 'burgers' I eat are either done at home, usually with falafel, OR if I get around to it from vegan fast food places.

 

you know how many people live on this planet. it's ridiculous to assume we would NOT have a negative impact on it if we all started hunting our own food.

what we need is a change of mind, and for most people that little switch is going with 'vegan' fast food at first, before they discover that a vegan diet is not 'limited' at all. (yet alone the fact that being vegan isn't about a diet to begin with)

being vegan for many people (including myself when i was vegan) is partly about stopping factory farming. it's an inhumane, irresponsible practice that is killing the earth and making human and non-human animals alike very sick.

sure buying a boca patty instead of a meat patty is sending a signal. but it's not a permanent or the best solution.

but that's not even the point i was really trying to make. the point is that omnivores are often condemned for eating meat and are labeled cruel, murderers and misinformed. i was simply pointing out that an omnivore who buys organic grass fed beef from the farmers market isn't contributing to a company that supports factory farming or receiving a product that needs lots of packaging or is shipped across the country. which is more than a vegan buying a boca burger can say. and that should be rewarded not condemned!

and i know long time vegans and vegetarians. some of them do eat these patties fairly frequently. obviously some choose not to.

if people hunted their own meat for 6 ounce servings a day/every other day it wouldn't really be that much meat.

and the problem is not that the planet isn't meant to sustain humans hunting and eating meat. it's not meant to sustain the urban sprawl, over population, pollution, eradication (in some cases total eradication) of species and many more unnatural things that effect the way we eat and live. native people hunted animals and ate them. it was rarely a problem because they knew not to hunt too many animals or the populations (their food source) would dwindle. they also fortified theirs diets with crops and fish.

i'm not by any means saying a vegan diet isn't helpful or an answer. i'm just saying it's not THE answer. just one of many answers that is right for some people. everyone should do what they think is best for both them, others and the earth. everyone should talk and share their ideas instead of being cut down the moment they mention they eat meat. everyone has different ideas and the key is to talk respectfully with others. because there is no way any real progress will be made if everyone is constantly trying to undermine each other.

p.s. sorry if this is confusing. i wrote the when_i_fly_and_look_down reply to xdarthveganx. i'm obviously under a different user name now.

lessening factory farming as a long-time-goal is not an option.

untill all are free

half-measures are for whimps