Not trying to start crap, just want to know... how many people here are actually Vegan?

As in no animal products whatsoever (including honey)

I have been vegan for 13 years! Drop in and say hi if you're vegan too! We can support each other with our fitness goals!

Original Post by clay010:

To hit on the God issue again, it is true that God gave us animals to eat. We originally had everything we needed in the Garden of Eden, but when Adam fell to sin all that perfection was taken away. In fact, there is even a book 'The Makers Diet' that outlines an eating regime as dictated by the scriptures and includes meat.

On the flip side, when people ask me why I choose not to eat meat i tell them that i have no problem eating meat, dairy and eggs if i knew the animals were taken care of and raised according to God in the first place. Then i think about antibiotics, hormones, prodding and steroids... then i want to adopt a calf

and a piglet

and a sheep.....

*also, with regard to a bear eating a fish and calling it murder, a bear is also designed to eat said fish. A bear has protrusive canines capable of searing flesh and a stomach loaded with enzymes capable of dealing with the raw meat. Meanwhile, a human needs to catch, filet, marinate, cook and garnish the fish in order to eat it. Again, im not shunning the omnivores of the world... meat is neat. I choose not to and if your all ok with that then who am i to judge?

a bear is an omnivore and thusly "designed" to eat a fish. humans have been eating meat for many many years and have the teeth to do such. and when we were apes we did the same. what is unnatural is to eat the type of meat we do in the quantity we do. and also the conditions that we "raise" animals in.

as for enzymes needed to eat raw meat. we don't eat raw meat and haven't since before we discovered fire. our bodies have stopped creating those enzymes as result. it's evolution. and a human doesn't need to do anything but prepare the fish and cook it. anything else beyond that (marinating, seasoning and garnishing) is merely for taste not a necessity.

Original Post by soiamme:

Original Post by my_body_is_a_cage:

Original Post by soiamme:

Original Post by when_i_fly_and_look_down:

Original Post by xdarthveganx:

I would like to add, the idea that someone should not feel guilty about supporting an industry that kills 60 BILLION animals a year for food, and is completely destroying our planet is ludicrous.

 

Make no mistake about it, this is an ethical issue and like any other ethical issue we must take a stand.

do you buy boca burgers or silk soy milk? many of these vegetarian products are owned by meat and dairy companies. so i'd say that someone who is buying local organic grass fed beef or catching a fish with a line and hook near their home (which will last for several meal. also assuming there is a 'clean' body of water near them) is making a better decision for the earth, others and themselves than those who choose to buy those kind of goods that have to be shipped and packaged from far off places.

guilt shouldn't stem from eating meat. guilt should stem from the way the animals are raised and killed, the large quantity of meat that is consumed and the effect that has on the earth. you shouldn't make someone feel guilty for being an omnivore. plenty of animals are omnivores. it isn't murder when a bear eats a fish, is it?

i'm not saying anyone should discontinue their vegan diets that has a healthy response to such. but i think people lose sight of what's really important. we should try to keep the planet as close to it's natural state as possible. that discludes factory farms and commericial fishing but includes an omnivorous diet.
if vegans continue to spend time trying to get EVERYone to convert to veganism they will miss the oppurtunity they had to pursuade the same people against something more important, to stop supporting factory farming.

that's the thing, though. veganism is not about stopping factory farming

plus, even if this burger you mentioned is owned by a meat firm, it's still sending a signal. fact is most 'specifially vegan' foods are NOT sold in normal supermarkets. and the majority of people can't afford always buying organic.

not forgetting to mention that most 'long time' vegans don't even touch all the fake stuff. I for one can say about myself that the only 'burgers' I eat are either done at home, usually with falafel, OR if I get around to it from vegan fast food places.

 

you know how many people live on this planet. it's ridiculous to assume we would NOT have a negative impact on it if we all started hunting our own food.

what we need is a change of mind, and for most people that little switch is going with 'vegan' fast food at first, before they discover that a vegan diet is not 'limited' at all. (yet alone the fact that being vegan isn't about a diet to begin with)

being vegan for many people (including myself when i was vegan) is partly about stopping factory farming. it's an inhumane, irresponsible practice that is killing the earth and making human and non-human animals alike very sick.

sure buying a boca patty instead of a meat patty is sending a signal. but it's not a permanent or the best solution.

but that's not even the point i was really trying to make. the point is that omnivores are often condemned for eating meat and are labeled cruel, murderers and misinformed. i was simply pointing out that an omnivore who buys organic grass fed beef from the farmers market isn't contributing to a company that supports factory farming or receiving a product that needs lots of packaging or is shipped across the country. which is more than a vegan buying a boca burger can say. and that should be rewarded not condemned!

and i know long time vegans and vegetarians. some of them do eat these patties fairly frequently. obviously some choose not to.

if people hunted their own meat for 6 ounce servings a day/every other day it wouldn't really be that much meat.

and the problem is not that the planet isn't meant to sustain humans hunting and eating meat. it's not meant to sustain the urban sprawl, over population, pollution, eradication (in some cases total eradication) of species and many more unnatural things that effect the way we eat and live. native people hunted animals and ate them. it was rarely a problem because they knew not to hunt too many animals or the populations (their food source) would dwindle. they also fortified theirs diets with crops and fish.

i'm not by any means saying a vegan diet isn't helpful or an answer. i'm just saying it's not THE answer. just one of many answers that is right for some people. everyone should do what they think is best for both them, others and the earth. everyone should talk and share their ideas instead of being cut down the moment they mention they eat meat. everyone has different ideas and the key is to talk respectfully with others. because there is no way any real progress will be made if everyone is constantly trying to undermine each other.

p.s. sorry if this is confusing. i wrote the when_i_fly_and_look_down reply to xdarthveganx. i'm obviously under a different user name now.

 

lessening factory farming as a long-time-goal is not an option.

 

untill all are free

 

half-measures are for whimps

i'm really not sure how to reply to this because i am not sure what this is supposed to be in reply to in my comment.

i'm not sure what you are calling a half-measure or who you are calling a whimp. if you would like to elaborate and explain yourself better i would be happy to reply to that response.

no.

I'm really not in the mood right now and when I say something now I might regret it. so we have to leave this up to another time.

Original Post by my_body_is_a_cage:

Original Post by gardyloo11:

I'm not a Christian so I don't buy into the "God gave us animals to eat" thing - no offense meant to you - I just don't think it's possible to make a definitive statement like that based on one particular religion's viewpoint.  

A vegan diet is not only healthier, but kinder to the planet. Human beings were never meant to be meat eaters. Look at our teeth: they are flat and made for grinding grain and vegetables.  By contrast, look at a true carnivore's teeth: sharp and pointed and made for ripping flesh. And most importantly, animals have souls. They have feelings. They have as much a right to live their lives as we do. I think it's very arrogant for us as humans to decide that our lives are worth more than theirs. Sure, we are (in certain ways) the most intelligent animals on the planet, but that's all the more reason to use our intelligence wisely. We don't need to eat meat. That's why tens of thousands of years ago we used our intelligence to cultivate agriculture so we could rise above the grunting snarling animals who indiscriminately killed other animals for food acting on nothing but their base instincts.

our teeth aren't as sharp because we have hands, thumbs, can stand upright and use tools. we don't need large teeth to eat an animal with because we have other ways of preparing an animal to be eaten. we have both sharp teeth and flat teeth for grinding which is the trait of an omnivore. we've been eating meat for many many years and when we were apes we were omnivores as well.

it's not arrogant to eat an animal. non-human animals do it on a daily basis. it's not called arrogance when an animal eats another animal. it's called the food chain.

on the other hand it is called arrogance when you kill animals for game, cram animals in large building in torturous conditions and destroy the environment/other animal's habitats as though the only animals that matter are human animals. but you shouldn't confuse the two. there are ways of eating animals without supporting the unnatural and destructive ways of modern food production.

and as for agriculture. we started agriculture so that we could guarantee and improve our quality of vegetation. we didn't do it so that we could stop being omnivorous.

and those grunting snarling animals that you are talking about do have instincts that tell them to eat meat. they have that instinct because it's what is best for their body. you make it sound stupid to have that instinct because they don't have the intelligence we have to choose our diet. but that instinct is keeping them alive. that doesn't sound very stupid to me. and as for humans, we have brains and nutritional science to base our decisions on. everyone should try to make the decisions that are best for their bodies, others and the earth.

You are missing my point entirely. What I'm saying is that humans are intelligent enough and have evolved to the point where they don't NEED to eat meat.  Yes I realize that animals are acting on instinct - we as humans with our great intelligence should be above that. And the fact is that with our current population being at 6 Billion we can no longer sustain so many meat eaters. Are you aware that the meat industry is the number one contributor of greenhouse gasses?

Back to the animals and their instincts though: An animal who acts on instinct and kills another animal has no cognitive awareness of the other animal's consciousness and suffering, therefore that animal is innocent and doing nothing wrong. We humans however DO have that awareness (symbolized by Eve eating from the tree of knowledge in your religion) and therefore we have an obligation to act from that awareness. Remember "Thou Shalt Not Kill"?  Where does it say that that should mean only other humans? Killing is killing is killing. To take another life -especially when YOU DON'T NEED TO- is wrong, plain and simple.

The advantages of veganism are that it's healthier, it's humane, and it's in harmony with the planet.  What exactly are the advantages of meat eating?

I just changed my diet about 2 weeks ago (I am not counting) to a vegan diet. Partly because of factory farming and partly because of nutrition and partly because I think it is gross to eat a dead animal. I haven't considered the spiritual or scriptural aspect of it. I know in the Old Testament meat was definitely on the menu and in the New Testament God told Peter to go ahead and eat all foods and not let any food hold him back from spreading God's word. I am not a preacher and haven't been to church in a long time so I am not going to look it up. But anyone who has done any reading in the Bible knows this. I don't know why God would say it was ok to eat animals unless it really was. But I am listening to the book "The China Study". This 20 year study of 6500 people concludes among other things that animal protein is harmful to humans. This is a conflicting idea I will have to ask my mom about, she knows a lot about this issue. (no, I am not 12 years old, I am 25, and yes my mom actually does know a lot about this subject).

Happy to eat a vegan diet! And I have never felt better or had more energy in my whole life. I have stopped taking medication to go to sleep at night. And, I hope to slowly replace my mood disorder medications by proper nutrition. I encourage anyone who thinks meat and dairy is essential to your diet to actually do some research on their own! Don't just believe what you have always heard about 3 glasses of milk a day or milk does a body good, etc. visit peta.org read "The China Study". It is not about living forever. No one can...obviously! I could get hit by a bus on my way home today and die at 25 (God forbid). But I will have lived these last few hours feeling the best I can, no constipation or boating I used to have, no insomnia, less meds, just great. Also, it is equally important to cut out soda, refined sugar, artificial sweeteners, coffee, caffeine. Ok, now I am going on and on.

Hippocrates said "Science is to know, ignorance is to think you know". Please make the effort to know for yourself.

tigers, bears etc.. have no choice. If they don't kill and eat meat they will starve to death. They are designed to live on Meat, and can't eat plants.

People have awareness and concious thought.  We can survive with out meat, and generally tend to be much healthier when we dont' eat meat (assuming we don't live on veg junk food).

It comes down to knowing where your food comes from and how it is processed and gets to the store, and making an educated choice as to what you believe and what you are and aren't willing to support.

I am an ovo-veg or almost vegan.  I do eat eggs, but only locally raised organic eggs. It is part my personal ethical code, as well as for health reasons.

Many religions do preach vegetarianism for example Seventh day Adventists and Buddhists, while others such as Judaism, Muslim and Catholosism have dietary rules about what can and can't be eaten and when.

It all comes down, inho to your own personal beliefs. I live and let live. prefering to set and example not annoy people by being preachy.

I'm not a vegan, but I am a vegetarian, have been my whole life.  Proud to say I've never eaten meat.  My wife has been vegetarian for close to 10 years now, and both my kids are too.

Yay Vegans!

(And Veg-supporters!)

Interesting forum. Vegetarianism, Vegan ism.

Isn't this a Food and Nutrition Forum? Why do some choose to start dragging Wool, leather and the like into these post.

I understand the mindset of most who eat as vegetarians or vegans, but can we just keep it about food choices. You tend to scare others off who just want to eat vegetables as a basis for a healthy alternative to eating meat all the time. It seems like it always gets changed into a political issue with animal rights or even now insect rights. 

Just my thoughts.

A reminder the posting guidelines as set by CC.....Calorie Count's mission is to promote healthy and sustainable weight management.

I am a strict vegan for ethical and political reasons, and I am also working towards a Master's Degree in Holistic Nutrition.

I would just like to point out that whoever stated that animals have enzymes that we do not for digesting raw meat stated this erroneously; this person probably assumed that we cook meat so that it is easier to digest. Not so. This may work with vegetables, as vegetables have cellulose we cannot easily break down without cellulase, which we lack, but meat actually has the enzymes to digest it with already within the meat; in fact, these enzymes are destroyed when the meat is cooked. People have been shown to have a reaction called 'leukocytosis' after consuming cooked meat, but not after consuming raw meat. If we eat meat at all, it should be raw. Of course, I don't believe we should eat it at all, but for entirely different reasons. I am only correcting you in case you come across a meat eater who has more knowledge than you do about enzymes and how they work, particularly in the case of meat. This will make you better prepared to argue (and why, WHY do we always have to argue our point? I wish we could just be peaceful vegans without meat eaters having to yell at us and interrogate us all the time. But just know that their interrogations most of the time are their subconcious need to feel good about their own choices; hopefully, if you can educate them, they will realize they need to stop supporting factory farming and go vegan).

As for the God issue, do a little research on factory farms and tell me you would seriously think that Jesus would support something like that. Seriously?? Christianity believes that the nature of people can be inherently evil and swayed by Satan, if there was ever evidence of Satan's work through people, I'd say factory farming is it. Don't kid yourself into thinking that what the Bible means when it says that we are to eat animals means we are to support what is going on today with factory farms.

.

Original Post by edamame3:

I am a strict vegan for ethical and political reasons, and I am also working towards a Master's Degree in Holistic Nutrition.

I would just like to point out that whoever stated that animals have enzymes that we do not for digesting raw meat stated this erroneously; this person probably assumed that we cook meat so that it is easier to digest. Not so. This may work with vegetables, as vegetables have cellulose we cannot easily break down without cellulase, which we lack, but meat actually has the enzymes to digest it with already within the meat; in fact, these enzymes are destroyed when the meat is cooked. People have been shown to have a reaction called 'leukocytosis' after consuming cooked meat, but not after consuming raw meat. If we eat meat at all, it should be raw. Of course, I don't believe we should eat it at all, but for entirely different reasons. I am only correcting you in case you come across a meat eater who has more knowledge than you do about enzymes and how they work, particularly in the case of meat. This will make you better prepared to argue (and why, WHY do we always have to argue our point? I wish we could just be peaceful vegans without meat eaters having to yell at us and interrogate us all the time. But just know that their interrogations most of the time are their subconcious need to feel good about their own choices; hopefully, if you can educate them, they will realize they need to stop supporting factory farming and go vegan).

As for the God issue, do a little research on factory farms and tell me you would seriously think that Jesus would support something like that. Seriously?? Christianity believes that the nature of people can be inherently evil and swayed by Satan, if there was ever evidence of Satan's work through people, I'd say factory farming is it. Don't kid yourself into thinking that what the Bible means when it says that we are to eat animals means we are to support what is going on today with factory farms.

Well said!!!

Original Post by xdarthveganx:

I wish we had an actual vegan forum here, all the pescetarian threads are frustrating for me.

Why don't we get a Vegan Forum on here? is it really that hard?

Agreed! If we all have to sign a petition to Erik and Igor so that they can see that there's enough interest, I'm in! I really think there are enough of us vegans and enough people curious about veganism and its relation to calorie counting and health that this site could use a vegan forum!!

Original Post by xdarthveganx:

As in no animal products whatsoever (including honey)

 

I have been vegan for 13 years! Drop in and say hi if you're vegan too! We can support each other with our fitness goals!

I am 99% Vegan! Meaning I avoid honey, but I have to consume it sometimes because I'm hypoglycemic and am not always prepared. I'm also poor... which makes it even harder to be as strict as I would like to be sometimes.  I have also given into a craving for Avocado Egg Rolls at the Cheesecake factory twice in my two years of being vegan. Other than that... yea... I'm vegan.

Original Post by xdarthveganx:

Original Post by veryvegan:

Hi Darth and Clay :)  I've been vegan for about two years, and I don't eat honey either.  I want to build more muscle but maintain the same weight.

Darth - what are your fitness goals? 

I live in good ol' Portland, OR.

It is probably the most vegan friendly city in the country, it also has more vegan junk food than one could possibly imagine.

So every winter I gain weight eating yummy comfort food, and every summer I burn off as much as possible!

I am planning on breaking the cycle this year!

Most years I end up in much better shape then I started, but I never reach my ultimate fitness goal. I plan to make this year different.

I also want to get back in shape for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I did it for 3 years and started getting really good until life and school got in the way.

I just moved away from Portland... I miss the vegan doughnuts from whole foods :( and saint cupcakes! They  have the best vegan cupcake ever! When I visit in December... I'm SOOO gonna get me some more vegan sweets!

I eat withing vegan guidelines with the exception of honey (I think that's the only exception). I don't eat animal proteins, dairy or cooking oil. I eat whole grains, starches, greens and fruit. I don't eat many nuts or avocado either. Very calorie dense.

I am essentially vegan, or at least, try to be without going crazy scouring ingredient labels.  I will eat bread or crackers that contain trace amounts of honey, or may have been produced by machines where dairy or animal products have also been processed. 

One rule I always try to follow is making sure the cholesterol count in any food that I eat is zero grams, since cholesterol only comes from animal sources.

My primary motivation for a vegan diet is ethical and environmental.  I do believe it is the best nutritionally as well as useful for weight control, but  dietary factors are secondary for me.