Ugh... Offically hating cutting

ok yesterday was the first day of my offical cut, having been bulking with my personal trainer for the last 3 months and having gained about 4-5lb of muscle she finally think's im really to try and find my abb's haha.

And everything was 100% great untill i read my nutition sheet .... what can i say other than UGH!!!! ... it's horrid, she's not got me on food im not sure what it is but it's not any kind of food i''ve every concidered a meal before.

Please someone explain to me HOW!!!! peanut butter, broccolli and a protien shake is supposed to be concidered a meal???

I trust my trainer she's dont amazing thing's with me and my body over the past 3 months but seriously this diet is killer. you'd have to be a robot to enjoy this kind of meal plan, im sure it's very functional and she assured me it works and that if i stick to it ill see my abbs by christmas.

i've worked out the macro's and tbh it all seems fairly reasonable, it's not a starvation diet, im eating lot's of protein, and have cycle for fats and carbs and i can't see anything that jumps out at me that's unhealthy or bad.

But seriously there is not a decent meal to been seen on this thing how am i supposed to stick to it when im not entirely sure i class it as food??

Anyone got any tips how to stay motivated when the food is crappy??

i'm 100% with ccm here: 1800 calories is NOT a lot of food for someone who is even remotely active.  when you're eating nothing but veggies, you just need a LOT of protein to keep you full and energized. 

i also agree with ccm about finding a meal plan that allows you to reach your goals without causing too much misery.  i realize the intention behind a strict cutting phase.  but when you put it in perspective, you're receiving advice from someone who manipulates her diet and training around competitions.  as far as i know, you're not planning on entering a competition, right?  so the "outcome" you're trying to achieve isn't as tangible in that sense.  and perhaps because of that, the "process" part of this journey should be something that seems tolerable and more sustainable.  at the end of the day, you want to be able to connect your behaviors to some kind of value.  so you suffering through a miserable diet is in the service of what?  losing weight, yes.  but that's in the service of what? 

Original Post by laura916:

i'm 100% with ccm here: 1800 calories is NOT a lot of food for someone who is even remotely active.  when you're eating nothing but veggies, you just need a LOT of protein to keep you full and energized. 

i also agree with ccm about finding a meal plan that allows you to reach your goals without causing too much misery.  i realize the intention behind a strict cutting phase.  but when you put it in perspective, you're receiving advice from someone who manipulates her diet and training around competitions.  as far as i know, you're not planning on entering a competition, right?  so the "outcome" you're trying to achieve isn't as tangible in that sense.  and perhaps because of that, the "process" part of this journey should be something that seems tolerable and more sustainable.  at the end of the day, you want to be able to connect your behaviors to some kind of value.  so you suffering through a miserable diet is in the service of what?  losing weight, yes.  but that's in the service of what? 

 Huh???  Was this directed at me?  If so, I wouldn't lose weight on 1800....  I would not be at a deficit, but at an overage!   I think your cal consumption depends on your size.  That is what Lou Schuler wrote in his book, based upon Cassandra Forsythe's recommendations.   Based upon the book (& I think it is a bit high), I only need 1600 on non-lift days... so 1800/day, lifting 3X per week leaves me with 800 cals EXTRA a week (4 non-lift days)....  Instead of losing a couple pounds, I would be gaining.  It may work for someone bigger, but you can't really put out a blanket statement that 1800 calories/day is too low for people who are trying to lose a couple pounds because we are not all the same size with the same calorie requirements.

i'm thinking laura916 was directing her comment at the thread in general.  some ppl prefer to go the "strict diet" route for the results; i think laura916 favors something more "tolerable" and "sustainable" that you can attribute "value" to (as she states).

indeed, everyone's calorie requirements are a product of their size, activity level, muscle mass, frequency of eating, hormonal status, amount of sleep, etc.  CC recommends 1800 calories for a 5'2 lightly active adult for maintenance.  i imagine that most ppl in a "lifting as a lifestle" group tend to burn more calories than that accounts for.  if you had a couple fewer yogurts, you'd probably be in the area you need to be for a deficit on non-lifting days.  on lifting days, that may just be a reasonable number for you.

and maybe it isn't.  1800 calories is not enough for most ppl who lift weights on a regular basis.  but clearly i don't know everyone, and i don't even know you that well.  i also understand that it's a task to figure out exactly how much to eat to nourish your muscles and still look lean.  so i wish you luck on your journey.

my comment about the 1800 calories was directed towards anyone who thinks 1800 calories is a lot of food.  my other comments were, as ccm said, directed to the thread in general.  my point is only that sometimes it may be helpful to take a step back from our routines and ask ourselves WHY working so hard and engaging in such strict diet and exercise routines is something that matters to us.  if you're miserable bulking (too much food, feel gross, etc) and miserable cutting (eating nasty foods, getting bored, always hungry, never experience pleasure from food), that's a lot of miserable.  and chances are there are people in your life who notice and are impacted by that kind of misery.  so it would be really unfortunate if you were working so hard and being so miserable, putting strain on your relationships, leaving you feeling depleted for no good reason. 

i'm not assuming this is the case for anyone here (though i confess that some of leila's posts have read this way).  nor am i hating on being serious about diet and fitness because these things are also really important to me and occupy a large part of my life.  in fact, these are just things i've looked at in myself and tried to reconcile.  if this lifestyle provides you with a sense of vitality and meaning, you shouldn't change a thing.  but if you're feeling tapped and miserable and cranky and there are COSTS to these things in your life, then please put down the broccoli and grab a sandwich.

1800 isn't alot of food, this is a converstation i've been having with a young girl at my gym who has upped her calories to 1400 to "bulk" .... *roll's eye's*

I'm cutting right now on what i guesstimate to be about 1700, which tbh if you'd told me 6 months ago that was what i needed to cut i would never have belived you, CC has me maintaining on less than that, and i was trying to stave myself on 1,200 cals and trust be when i say i was pushing myself physically alot harder than i do right now out of frustration that the fat wasn't shifting.

im 115lb and only 5ft3 .... not huge by any stretch, so 1700 still seems like alot of cals, but saying that i would also never have belived that i needed to eat 3000k per day to gain any kind of weight either but sure enough thats what i needed before the scale showed any sort of increase,

If i have learn't one valueable thing on my journey to date it's that no online calc in the world can tell you how much to "eat" to gain or lose weight, they are great to be used as a starting point but best way to work it out is though trial and error.

that and that most people don't eat enough, i think the more i get read the fourm's the more frustrated i get at the countless "im eating practically nothing" why arn't i losing posts... not frustrated in an angry way because i totally feel for these people because i used to be one of them, but sometimes i wish could teach them what i've learn't.  Trial and error do what works for your body, and if it's NOT working don't just sit there CHANGE IT!!! and sometimes that means eating MORE!!!

Oh and as for my diet ... well i fell head first of the wagon yesterday it was bound to happen... gah ... i just need to get up the courage to tell my trainer now haha.

I probably wouldn't gain on 1700 or 1800, but I definitely would not lose.  I probably have less muscle than some of you too since I am relatively new at lifting.  I have always been strong though....probably from doing lots of monkeybars, rope climbing. etc as a child.  In Jr High, I was probably one of very few girls able to do the gymnastics rings.

Yes, we do need to work with what we have.  I am not one of those people that eat like a bird.  I have really never really dieted for more than 5 pounds here and there.  I've pretty much ate whatever I wanted all my life & stayed thin.  That said, I have never really been huge on candy, cake, ice cream, etc.  I've had a pretty healthy diet since childhood.  Never liked alot of sauces, gravy etc.  I have eaten lots of McDonald's in my day too & fruit & veggies.

PS - I am small boned... meaning I can almost touch my middle finger and thumb around my ankle!  (I do have long fingers).

Original Post by laura916:

but if you're feeling tapped and miserable and cranky and there are COSTS to these things in your life, then please put down the broccoli and grab a sandwich.

AMEN!

I wanted to "weigh in" on the conversation around 1800 calories a day. I'm a shorty, too - also 5'2.5 (love that half an inch!) and also working on the New Rules of Lifting for Women.

My stats are: 5'2.5, 34 years old, 122ish pounds, calorie target for "building" as determined by the calculations in NRL4W on non-lifting days is 1900, and on lifting days is about 2050.

I'm pretty good at meeting this most days, and go above on others. I've not lost much weight (one or two pounds), but I have certainly increased muscle and shed fat. I've had the same quandry about how to cut - and even tried for a week or so to go 1600 / 1800. I was sooo cranky and tired that I went back to original numbers. 

I just thought I'd put another set of stats out there for consideration before we start blasting people for not eating enough. For me, I use all of the considerations that Schuler puts forth in his book to determine if I'm eating enough: I have tons of energy, I am in a good mood, my cycle is healthy, my clothes are looser, and my strength is increasing. When I tried to reduce my calories, most of these things ceased to be true, and I knew that the right thing for my body was to add back calories.

On the other hand, I think that it's great to have a community that cares and is concerned about the health of others and aims to educate each other, as well as learn from each other. I got a lot out of reading this thread and it helped me think about my own intake in new ways. And it made me want to go back and re-read some of the materials that helped me determine my calorie count.

When I'm ready to cut it's quite nice to know there is a place to ask for advice.

My two cents  (oh boy here it comes)

I agree with PistolPete... it's tough to stomach a new diet. I change my diet every 50 days to keep things fresh and it's so challenging sometimes. You could change the food around BUT you could also keep your mental strength, bite the bullet, and keep that one thought in mind "I do not live to eat, I eat to live". Put the food down your throat and move onto doing everything else you like to do

Second... (and this is probably only applied to me bc I'm a sicko! lol) but sometimes the worse the food, the less I stray from my diet. I get "turned off" by food, eating is a chore, and I hate it at times. So I make sure to not enjoy it, and it makes it far less appealing to break my diet (it makes all food look gross). For example: I put instant coffee in my fiber one in the mornings. My girlfriends think it's disgustingly bitter... but I'd rather have it that way. I also put hot sauce and far too much spice in my eggs in the AM. (this is just preference tho! lol!)

So to be honest I kinda like where your trainer is going... and I'm really interested to see if it works for you!!  Please keep up this thread... I'd love to hear of your results.

For the lo-carb thing, I find that most people love to say 60% carbs is a healthy thing... bah! I don't believe it. Then I got one of my emails today which backed my opinion (just an opinion... to be honest I doubt any one diet is right for everyone). It read:

RATIOS: It's unlikely that you'll get tight abs and a flat stomach by consuming 80 percent of your calories from carbohydrates. Ratios can vary quite a bit, but consuming more than 55 percent of your calories from carbohydrates is not optimal for fat loss. Many people do quite well on extremely low-carb plans, while others succeed on more moderate plans. As long as you eat no more than 55 percent of your calories from carbohydrates, you'll be at a good starting point.

http://www.ediets.com/news/NewsArticle.jsp?co mponentPath=&itemType=&start=2&id =65173#article 

For the high cal diets, I have come to my opinion on that as well... eating well will not make you gain weight... I live on a crazy low cal diet and I'm slowly trying to up it but 1800 cals a day is rediculous for me... I don't eat close to that on days I run half-marathons (1500 is pushing it). But I do believe as long as your cals are coming from a great source then you really can keep a lean physique.... no matter your number.

Speaking of which, PB & Broccoli? hmm... I could honestly say that makes this mama hungry! lol!! Then again in May I had my jaw surgery... lived on liquid diet for about 1 month and I loved the way blended veggies, oatmeal, and meats came out! lmao!

G'luck to you leiela!!!  

If you have to make your food taste like poo to stick to your diet, if you're exercising like crazy (several hours in the gym a day, running half-marathons), if you have to eat an incredibly low cal diet to maintain your weight,  I might question whether it's YOU who has control here....or whether it might be true that something (a fear, a wish) is controlling YOU. 

laura,

food doesn't taste like poo... lol, or maybe it does; never really eaten poo before . Just helps me to not like the taste like I used to salvitate over a plate at chili's with buffalo wings, bleu cheese, and loaded mashed potatoes.

Can't exercize several hours a day... I gotta work 9-10hrs, sleep 6.5-7hrs, school 2 hours, boyfriend 2 hrs. Exercize takes up 240 mins/wk for weights, and 200 mins cardio/wk. 1/2 marathons are once monthly. (I run every saturday, and at I sign up for 1/2 marathons or 10k or 5k for a cause whenever I can without paying).

And yeah, my fear of not being hot before 30 does control me. Not that I want to be a stripper or porn star, but I'd sure like to look like one while I'm young enough to enjoy it without PTA meetings  Capice?

forgive me for overestimating your routine.  i was basing it on your response to the overtraining thread from this group.  either way, my guess is that you'd knock the socks off the soccer moms with your sexiness even if you indulged in a wing now and then and otherwise decided to enjoy the taste of your food.  given how full your life is with work, school and relationships, i'd venture that being hot isn't the only thing you care about.  so my only point is that it would be a sad thing if your need to control diet/fitness led to costs in any of those other areas.  you're probably a superwoman and can manage it all.  but most humans couldn't.  and while you may be extra-human in this way, you're not in terms of the amount of fuel your body needs to function given the demands you're placing on it.  so maybe you could use your superwoman powers to tolerate the discomfort of increasing your cals so that you can continue with your superwoman tendencies for many years to come. 

Original Post by renee328:

Sure yogagirl! And thanks for the compliments! Ok here was the menu:

Meal 1: 3 egg whites, 1/2 c. oatmeal, 1/4 c. pineapple, 1/4 walnuts

Meal 2: protein shake, 1/2 banana

Meal 3: 8 oz chicken or lean steak (I did 4 oz.), 2-3 c. veggies, 1/2 c. brown rice

Meal 4: protein shake, 1 piece fruit or a yogurt

Meal 5: 8 oz chicken or fish, 2 c. veggies, mixed green salad w/low cal. dressing

wow some of you think that this is alot of food for being active?

my only concern is that there is not type of good fat to be seen. you dont need a lot but you would need some. even drizzling 1 tblsp of olive oil on your mixed salad for meal 5. some fat does not always equal more fat on your body.

EDIT: &  leiela we all know by now that you a glutton for punishment. as your trainer said, just stick with it for 2 weeks & go from there. you may actually learn to like some of the stuff & incorporate it later once you can eat normal.

Yeah my daily regime for this week goes like this:

7am Meal 1: 1/2c Fiber One, 1/4c unsweetened Almond Breeze, 4 Egg Whites, Tea

10am Meal 2: Met-Rx Protein Bar (the small ones - 180 cal)

1pm Meal 3: 1/3c polenta (cooked w/o salt), 1/4c mushrooms, 2oz chicken breast (boiled, no salt)

4pm Meal 4: 2oz lentil bolanti (afghani flat bread; it's like naan) with 2 tbs red lentil curry paste 

7pm Meal 5: 1scp protein powder, 1/2 scp Waxy Maize Starch Carbohydrate Blend, 8 oz water

9:30pm Meal 6: 1 Gorton's Tilapia fillet (80 cals; 17g protein), 6 egg whites, 1 oz spinach, 2 tbs super hot salsa

Snacks: Grande Americano w/ no cream/sugar in the AM; handful of frozen grapes in the PM.

Bed by 11:30pm... start it all up again at 6am . It's 1300-1350 cals or so per day... working on upping it slowly. I know that I will need to take in more, but it's all a slow process ya know? Probably next week I'll start adding some PB to the mix... lol, PB has got to be evil!!!

cutting and dieting and starving are three different things, though they're related.  cutting is a process that pairs w/bulking; the goal is to try to lose as much of the fat you gained while bulking while maintaining as much of the muscle gain as possible.  cutting/shredding is a term specific to weight lifting bec it's about both food and exercise.  during cutting, you'll see ppl cut down on the volume of their weight training.  in fact, you may see a lot of program changes:  probably less cardio, definitely less intense cardio (not enough carbs for energy and don't want to lose the muscle), probably higher rep training (bec the strength gains during this phase are less), maybe faster tempo. 

carbs are important.  in my opinion, there's no magic percentage of carbohydrates.  read this article from figure athlete about a sample cutting diet. 

cutting is a program that starts and ends in a fairly small time frame (~12weeks).  it's not something that lasts for many months or years.  people diet for years, maybe losing 10lbs a year or something.  but that's not at all what cutting/shredding is.  one thing is always true:  ultimately, the calories determine whether or not you lose weight.  but having too large a deficit is not at all healthy and will give your muscles a beating.  read this article for information on how to determine the maximum caloric deficit for fat loss.

Well you know things arn't gonig that bad, i was really worried about the "low carb" aspect of the whole thing because my body doens't generally do well with low carb's.

However im doing ok, i get a Carb load once every three days where i basically sit there stuffing my face on clean carbs for two hours (Yes 2 HOURS!!!) and i think the carb load is actually keeping my energy level's up at a level that is reasonable for the time bettween loads.

Ok the food still isn't great or exciting and doens't fill me with any sort of joy, but you do sort of get used to the routine. 

That said i think there is some sort of sence to it, firstly for the first time im actually running a deficit without spending 24 hours a day thinking about food, thinking about what i can eat next and thinking about how long it is till my next meal. 

Which i think is a combination of meal plan cleverly designed with foods that keep you feeling full, without the heavly calorie content, and of course that because i know what the next meal is and because it doens't really fill me with longing im not watching the clock till im allowed to eat it.  

Next, i'll also admit when i first looked at the plan, and set about setting everything up so i could put it in my food log i worried about how many cal's i was taking in because it seemed alot (especially the carb load which is 1000+ cals in one meal), because i am totally desprate to lose some of this fat before christmas because otherwise im not going into my dress haha, and in the past i've been used to pretty much starvation push yourself till your almost dead type routines, and this seems alot of cals with very little exercise and i wans't sure there was going to be much of a deficit.

However having taken a deep breath and ran with it for a week, tracking my food intake and taking my burn using my HMR im suprised to learn that i am actually running a healthy deficit.  

I wasn't going to get onto the scales or get out the tape measure till saturday but this morning i couldn't help myself, and despite the "water" from last night's carb load i'm pleased to report the scales have dropped almost 3lb's.

The tape measure is also very promising, 

• Thigh -0.5inches
• Waist -0.5 inches
• Chest - no change
• Biceps - no change
• Hips -1 inch.

Now im not getting my hopes up to much, im sure that having gone from a very high carb diet to a very low carb diet means at least some of that is water loss, still i'm sort of pleased because i don't think thats bad for just 1 weeks work, especially as i didn't really have to kill myself to do it.

littlemalynda ~  I completely agree with your statement "sometimes the worse the food, the less I stray from my diet. I get "turned off" by food, eating is a chore, and I hate it at times. So I make sure to not enjoy it, and it makes it far less appealing to break my diet (it makes all food look gross)"  When I was on my strict diet, my view of food and eating totally changed.  I ate only because I knew I "had" to, not because I was all excited about the "tasty" goodness I was about to have.  Oh, and your diet:  Don't think I could stomach it, but good for you!

Ok well i took more photo's last night and i've posted them in my profile please feel free to take a look and comment.

Kinda at the point now where im wondering exactly how lean i should aim for?? god knows what my current body fat is high teens i would guess but how low is to low to be maintainable / attractive?? i don't think i'll ever get the classic "waist" my ribcage is huge for my frame haha do you think i can stand to lose abit more fat? see if i can get my abbs to pop? or are my arms getting abit wirey?

Also im looking to bulk again come january, i want to add some size to my shoulders and arms because i think i've lost abit during my cut, anywhere else you can see glaring that need's additional size?

Original Post by leiela:

Ok well i took more photo's last night and i've posted them in my profile please feel free to take a look and comment.

Kinda at the point now where im wondering exactly how lean i should aim for?? god knows what my current body fat is high teens i would guess but how low is to low to be maintainable / attractive?? i don't think i'll ever get the classic "waist" my ribcage is huge for my frame haha do you think i can stand to lose abit more fat? see if i can get my abbs to pop? or are my arms getting abit wirey?

Also im looking to bulk again come january, i want to add some size to my shoulders and arms because i think i've lost abit during my cut, anywhere else you can see glaring that need's additional size?

 

 

 ah! what happened to your lovely hair? sorry i just love long hair, probably cuz i can never really grow mine.

but to answer your question, in my opinion you're lean enough now, you have that "toned" look. a little fat for shape never goes wrong, as long as its shaped, my hips now, they are still lumpy but im getting there.  have you taken any photographs while you're dancing, i think since we are usually in motion, photographs while we are in motion give us a better representative.

leiela, my honest assessment is that i think you looked hotter in the photos where you were 125.  i don't see hardly any fat on those photos, and you had enough muscle that you looked strong.  i can't believe how skinny you are now!  in my opinion, you look exactly the same as you did at 125, minus the muscle tone and shape.  your waist is just tiny, so i can't even respond to questions about it getting smaller :)