Universal Health Care fight that got me thinking about the secession issue again

Background:

My cousin is more like a sister or best friend to me. We've been close since we were babies. I've always loved her husband - he's such a funny guy and I think he has been a good provider and husband/father. He does have anxieties and phobias which I've learned about more during the years and has had tendencies to make my family mad but it never bothered me before because we always had fun together. He's on xanex and other meds to calm him down and he's become a daily pot smoker for the past six years. He does not take his meds as prescribed - so all this, my cousin feels, has been affecting him.

Story:

Two weekends ago I go to their house the stay the weekend . It was Friday afternoon and my cousin went to go buy some beer. Her husband (I'll call him C) and I was in the garage talking and nerding out over his new phone. I asked him if he'd seen Michael Moore's doc - Sicko. I wanted to share some touching stories about it but he wouldn't let me. He went off on how it's all lies and propaganda. So, we start debating about universal health care... at least, I think we're debating. What I mistook as him being 'animated' was him getting irrationally ANGRY!  Basically because he found out that I'm Democrat and like Obama and am open for a new system because I don't think HMO's are working.. 

He said he no longer has respect for me. He told me I'm unpatriotic and I need to move the f out of this country. He said he doesn't want to see my face again and called me a stupid B.. TWICE!  He also called me this where my son and his daughter could here (they are both 10yrs old). I have NEVER been disrespected / called a name in front of my child and I was not happy. I walked in the house and my son asked what was going on.. I said Uncle C is being an A-hole and he screamed from upstairs - F you, you stupid B! 

So, we (cousin and me) stayed in garage, drank a few beers, played some board games with the kids and hung out. We thought he would pout in his room all night and be OK the next day. He stayed in his room all night and while I was showering the next morning he asked my cousin if 'That B' was still here and if so, he knows how to fix that.  He grabs a bag and takes off. My cousin is furious and keeps apologizing. She says he's crazy and she felt so bad!

Get this.. we sit down to eat breakfast and she gets up to get ice.. ice maker's not working. She notices the power is out in the house. Their roommate comes home and decides to flip the braker.... the braker is turned off and the box is padlocked! He cut off power with his wife and the kids inside! Now I cry and I'm just really shocked and hurt and disappointed in him.  I end up leaving and staying at my other cousin's house as I was there for his surprise 40th b-day party anyway.

So - the hatred I've seen from him and a few others.. the complete opposite ideas of people have gotten me to rethink the whole secession thing from Nomo's post .  I was so sure that we (U.S. Citizens) are like a family and that it would be stupid to break up over issues.. but I have to say. I'm reconsidering and now on the fence with Nomo. Maybe it's not such a bad idea after all.

No offense, but I don't think politics are the problem in your family situation.  I think your cousin's hubby needs to reevaluate his meds, or seek therapy.

I don't think you can draw any conclusions from this other than your cousin's husband is a unstable, mentally ill pot-head and he acts irrationally because he's not taking his medication.   Ironically, the kind of person that could be helped by a national health service.

If you were to stop seeing your cousin's family you wouldn't be breaking up over 'issues', more responding to his violent temper and anti-social behaviour.  I suspect you could have started a conversation about any topic that afternoon and he'd have reacted in exactly the same way.

In the meantime, I hope you suggested to your cousin that she seeks help?  He sounds like he could do them some harm.

 

Original Post by jenniferthepennifer:

I was so sure that we (U.S. Citizens) are like a family and that it would be stupid to break up over issues.. but I have to say. I'm reconsidering and now on the fence with Nomo. Maybe it's not such a bad idea after all.

I wouldn't let one encounter with this person make that call.  Besides, it sounds like he has some mental issues if he's on both medications and using pot.  Plenty of people feel the way he does about universal health care, but don't react that way to people who disagree with them - it appears there are other factors.

That being said, it's a rather quaint notion that US citizens "are like a family" - a disfunctional one, maybe.  Still, even with partisan rancor, most people in the US aren't advocating a split up.  I think most people suggest this out of frustration because our divisions are hard to work through, and it constantly seems like a slow trudge to go forward.  Following through with it would present a lot more problems than it would supposedly solve.

As #2 said, this is not a political issue this is a mental health issue.

Original Post by bobs9895:

As #2 said, this is not a political issue this is a mental health issue.

 The core issue of what occurred with her cousin, yes - but Jennifer still made the comment about the US being a "family" - my comment was not off topic, particularly when she directly linked to a another thread that is specifically political.

Well thank you for your responses.  He is crazy and his wife agrees.... Not that he's ever been violent with her or the kids in the 20 yrs of marriage - she's just passive and knows when to say 'ok babe' and leave well enough alone. Apparently I was the first person to ever debate with him and he did not appreciate that!

Santo - you hit the nail on the head as usual. I really respect your opinions. His crazy butt should not be a determining factor in this and yes, my idea that we are family is a quaint notion..haha  I honestly believed it though! 

Can you believe he turned off the power though? Crazy.

Ok, I'm off to watch the inauguration. Thanks again!

your cousins husband needs to seek help. He may have bipolar along with the anxiety meds. I dont see any other reason. My best friend for some crazy reason is usually attracted to guys like that. Her current b'f is bipolar and already has gone off and on his meds which has made him do crazy irrational things

jennifer, obviously this fellow needs to seek help for his mental illness - sorry you had to go through all that - how unpleasant!

not everyone who is a zealot for or against some policy is mentally ill (or maybe they are, I don't know)

i've encountered people who became angry & agitated because I didn't agree with them - those are the people who need their own country (maybe we should give them Idaho, Utah & Wyoming and maybe that would draw some other like-minded folk from the other states to their new country and get them out of our hair)

Thanks nomo, it was very unpleasant to say the least - I'm still thinking about it two weeks later.

I've never been to Idaho, Utah or Wyoming but I hear they are beautiful! Couldn't we give them southern CA instead? They could have the Inland Empire. :o

I was thinking that putting them where they are already in highest concentration would be best... to have the least effect on other-minded people

If you give them so-cal, you're not only giving them a huge chunk of the economy, but you're putting a lot of very liberal people in quite the awkward situation

;)

LOL I see. I was just picturing them all trying to fit in the inland empire (Riverside and San Bernardino counties). I was born there and it's so ugly. It's surrounded by mountains - like being trapped in a bowl of smog. The trees and grass are brown and/or dead and there is litter everywhere and crime is rampant. We couldn't give them all of so. cal - too many great beaches! ha But yea, a lot of liberals there... that would be awkward!

Ok - Utah and Idaho... but let's keep Wyoming. It's too pretty to part with.

 

I had a thought.. why doesn't the 44th president send them to the 44th state? I looked it up and guess what? It's Wyoming! ha

Original Post by moonikins:

I say we send them to North Dakota. Let them freeze their butts off in the sub zero winters.

 what will happen is, once they all get to Utaho, they'll find that they can't reach an agreement on exactly how to dictate to everyone exactly how they must live and be

and they'll end up with a splinter group of troublemakers who believe that abortion shouldn't just be illegal, but that women who self administer them should go to jail -- and they'll agitate for independence from Utaho

then we can give THAT group North Dakota 

If it is mental health related (and I won't say that absolutely--I've met sane people who don't want to associate with anyone not in their political party or religion) you have to do CBT where they make you identify thinking errors--thinking errors I see here are all-or-nothing and mind reading. Possibly catastophizing and paranoia, which would lead him to hide in the bedroom till you were gone. "Stop-think"(aka "Thought-Stopping") is a technique where you still your mind and identify these errors, and then you're supposed to tell yourself something to counter them except you don't always believe it. Anyway, it's VERY hard to do sometimes.

Also I don't think secession is any good, because you'd most likely have to displace someone already living in Wyoming or Southern California or wherever and you see what a big mess that can make.

 

Well his dad left when he was a baby and his mom would frequent bars and leave him and his sisters alone for days w/o food. They even ate dog food to get by. His dad was found dead on railroad tracks. Some say due to a gambling habit gone bad, some say suicide.

Some phobias of his are not having his food touch, NO vegetables of any kind. Plastic cups must be kept in fridge so bugs dont crawl on them (but silverware, pots/pans, plates, etc are oK). NO cleaning supplies can be used in the house (mainly on countertops) because they will poison him (and yet he's fully aware that there are over 200 poison's in his cigarette). Um, after 911 the power went out and he had a bad panic attack thinking that terrorists cut off communication.

When I brought up Universal Health Care he kept saying that the government would have total control of us - that we would be robots. Like they would know every detail about every minutes of our lives based on that. I tried to assure him that the citizens in the UK, France and Canada are not robots.

I think it's because he takes his meds to get high or just when he feels weird instead of as prescribed. Also, he claims that pot is natural and does nothing to affect him but he can't do the simplest thing without smoking out first and his moods swings HAVE gotten worse.

So coffincritter - these things you mention above CBT and stop think.. are these methods a psych dr. would use?

 

Well we're in Texas and it was 80 degrees that day. And, to his defense, he's never laid a hand or verbally abused his kids - I mean, he has quirky phobias but the kids don't really know about those. He's always been in their life.. he's very affectionate towards them and loves them and his wife a lot! I used to be envious because they laugh all the time.. he really is a funny guy. He's constantly petting my cousin and telling her how much he loves her. He professes his love for her all the time. He owns his own construction business and has provided a nice two story home and two cars and they want for nothing.

Apparently I'm the one who didnt' get the memo about debating with him..ha And the power, he knew that would make me leave. He spoke to his wife on the phone and was waiting for me to leave so he could unlock it so the food wouldn't ruin. I think he just made a big @ss out of himself and couldn't face me and it got out of hand and he has no idea how to apologize or take it back. I guess he holds grudges for a really long time. 3 years with his brother and 2 yrs with his wife's (my cousin) sister-in-law.

edit - that's why it sucked so bad not having power.. we had no air conditioning! 

With the right meds and no wacky tobacky and a proper shrink.. he's really quite charming!