Here we go...Vaccines!

I would like to start off by saying that I am not intending to start a debate about vaccines. The things I say here are my personal beliefs and I would appreciate people not trying to change my mind. I have done my reasearch and made an informed decision.

My 4-year-old daughter has been vaccinated according to the AAP's schedule. When she was born, I didn't know anything about vaccine injury. In school (when my daughter was 3 and I was pregnant with my son), I wrote a lengthy research paper about Autism Spectrum Disorders. Second only to physical harm, these diseases are one of the worst things that could happen to my children. They absolutely terrify me. My daughter is no longer in the age-range to be effected by these disorders (that I know of). She will continue to be vaccinated according to the AAP's schedule to an extent. Now that I have a son who is more suceptable to these disorders simply because he is male, I want to take every precaution I can.

I know there has not been a proven link between Autism and vaccines. It is my personal belief that there is some sort of connection. I don't know what that connection is. At the same time, I feel it is important to vaccinate my children to not only protect them from some diseases but to also participate in keeping other diseases out of our culture.

I am currently reading The Vaccine Book by Dr. Robert Sears. It's a great book containing both facts and his opinions of each vaccine. He lists reasons why people choose to vaccinate and why they choose not to. It was very enlightening to be able to read both sides. My husband and I have decided to put our son on a selective, alternative vaccine schedule. My son has received the AAP's schedule vaccines at birth (Hep B) and two months (DTaP, IPV, HIB, Hep B, PCV and Rotavirus). We will not be vaccinating him against Hep A, Varicella (Chicken Pox) or Hep B (what vaccines he has left). We may do Hep A and B later in life. I am up in the air on the MMR. I am leaning toward not having him vaccinated until after he's 2 years old.

I'm really worried about the decision I'm making (I would be worried no matter what decision I had made). I also haven't talked to his doctor yet (we're scheduled to meet with him next week to discuss this topic). Myself, my husband, daughter, parents, sister, grandmother and best friend all see this doctor and we have for the last 22 years so I'm very comfortable with him. I worry about his thoughts about vaccinations because he does tend to be old-school in his views. I'm also not sure that he's open to alternative vaccination. If he's not and he refuses to work with us on it, I'm worried about having to find a new doctor for my kids.

Does anyone who has chosen this option for their child(ren) have any advice or suggestions? I have a friend who delayed her daughter's vaccines but didn't have a particular reason for doing it so she's not able to discuss this with me. My husband thinks it's a good idea to delay and selectively vaccinate but doesn't care to make an informed decision about it. He wants me to figure up the schedule with the doctor. He's definitely supportive but researching isn't really his thing.

I've really been agonizing over this for the past few weeks.

Edited to add: My son is NOT in daycare but my daughter is. My grandmother watches my son in her home.

I wanted to share my experience.  My own child has been delayed vaccinated. First and foremost come with as much information as you can when you discuss things with your doctor. 

Next, there are some vaxes that your child doesn't need..for example HIB, if you breastfeed for 6 weeks there's nearly a 90% chance that your child will never get Hib..as this is a disease related to formula feeding. 

Learn about vaccine exemptions for your state. For example I live in North Carolina. In North Carolina I can use only medical and religous reasons for not vaccinating...that is if I am part of a religion that is opposed to using Vaccines....and many of my secular friends claim religion for this reason. 

I have had only incident where a daycare wouldn't work with me on my vaccine schedule.  Mind you I didn't give them the time of day after that point.  Most large centers are flexible in this state as not accepting someone that is using a Religious exemption would be discrimination. 

Finally, go to Mothering.com.  There is a forum there that is devoted to discussing vaccines.  This includes how to handle doctors(I was lucky, my Ped respected alternate schedules and skipping vaxes if there was a family history for reactions)  How to handle schools, and daycares.

HTH.

the hib vaccine is to protect against a strain of menengitis.

I  followed the vaccine schedule for my first 2 kids roughly  on schedule

My 3rd child I modified but  still got all the necessary  vaccines.

You are wise to think things through. I have been very frustrated attempting to work through the information available so I can make an informed decision regarding my 6 month old. I was lucky enough to meet a woman just the other day and she strengthened my resolve to stand up and not allow myself to be railroaded by dismissive doctors who treat you like one of "those" moms. She had qualms about allowing her son to go through the usual routine of vaccinations and even her husband chided her into going along with the flow. Her son is now autistic- along with a niece- and she has a nephew with Asperger's- she is now convinced that at least in her family, there is a genetic weakness triggered by the vaccinations and had she been as informed as she now is, she would have never gotten him vaccinated on the traditional schedule- if at all...

It is always appropriate to question motives and information. It is always appropriate to demand to an informed parent. When it comes to vaccinations, it is not a matter of all or nothing or one size fits all. I find it very very sad that more parents are not aware of the danger and are willing to blindly follow doctors who are passing on information they receive from pharmaceutical companies and the pharmaceutical companies are motivated by maximum efficiency and profit- not the health and well being of individual children.

Good luck to you!

That mom I mentioned gave me the following web address. I have not really had a change to look at it, but she said that they have good alternate vaccine schedules, and tons of information...

www.generationrescue.com- this is the group founded by Jenny McCarthy...

Thank you all for your imput and experiences. My husband and I talked a great deal about this over the weekend.

We have decided to have our son fully vaccinated with the exception of the Varicella vaccine. Hopefully enough kids still get Chicken Pox that he will be naturally exposed. If not, we'll get the vaccine when he's older. We will be vaccinating him with as many aluminum-free vaccines as possible and only one vaccine containing aluminum per visit. We will also hold off on the MMR until he's over 2 years old. This means we'll be seeing the doctor once a month but oh well. The extra copays are worth the health of our son.

I did have a dream last night that we visited the doctor to discuss the delayed vaccines and he was totally on board. I hope the visit next week goes as smoothly as it did in my dream.

Thank you all again for your adivce! I'm glad to know I'm not the only one plagued by the agony of this decision

My youngest daughter was born in 2003.

At that time I thought I had a mild rash when I delivered her.  A couple of spots on torso, 1 in my eye brow and 2 on arms and legs.  I asked a doctor who sent for the head of infectious diseases.  I was told at that time I had chicken pox.  I was 32.  Was tested before for virus, showed no antibodies as I never had it as a child.  I also at that time had never saw a child with chicken pox.  My newborn daughter was given a booster called vzig to try and stop her from catching it.  It didnt help.  11 days later my daughter was covered from the top of her head to the soles of her feet in blisters.  Even if you breast feed and have had chicken pox an infant can still get chicken pox as nothing is 100% effective in preventing the contraction of the virus.

We then spent the next 16 days in the hospital with my daughter on antiviral meds.  Most people dont realize that chicken pox in babies under 6 months can go into liver and kidney failure from the virus.

While I was there was talking to a father whose 6 yr old son was in the hospital being treated for measles.  this man unloaded one afternoon while I was heating up my food.  His wife wouldnt vaccinate and a family member from out of country was sick with it but wasnt showing symptoms yet when he was staying with them passed the virus to his son.  I didnt find out the severity of his sons case b/c I want back to my room but his son was ill and in the hospital from it.

Well, luckily for me, I had Chicken Pox as a child. I am hoping my children will have it as well since it creates a lifelong immunity (according to all my research). The vaccine for Chicken Pox does not create lifelong immunity and it's now being recommended that children receive a booster. I would rather my children be naturally exposed but if they are not, they will get the vaccine when they are older.

That is very scary about your daughter and it's situations like yours that make me want to vaccinate my children.

I'm not at all anti-vaccine. My son will probably receive most (if not all) of the AAP's recommended vaccines but he will not have them all at such a young age. If I could go back and put my daughter on a delayed schedule, I would. My son will not be in daycare until he's 3 or 4 years old so we have some time to space these vaccines out.

I spaces them out with my youngest.  just didnt want to overwhelm her and she did get all her needles but on my schelude though

1) wedding mama:

HIB is not related to formula or breastfeeding:

http://www.vaccineinformation.org/hib/qandadi s.asp

http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20090 123/hib-outbreak-kills-unvaccinated-child

I don't know where you got the 90% number, but even if that number were 90% your child would be in that 10% because they aren't vaccinated.

2) OP:

hot topic indeed! I'm glad you made a decision that works for you and your child. I was sooo confused as well. I actually delayed several vaccinations that, after outbreaks of whooping cough and measels in Seattle, I subsequently caught her up to schedule with the exception of Hep B.

I thought Hep B was uncessesary for someone her age (not a drug user nor sexually active, duh!). We live in the city & I'll be damned if that kid didn't bend down and pick up a fistful of razorblade paraphenalia.

Obviously I went & vaccinated her for Hep B. It was stupid not to in the first place considering where we live & that we travel.

I will never question vaccinating her again. I'd rather have her vaccinated than put her at risk with the percentage of people who get sick for lack of immunity. Diseases have nearly become extinct BECAUSE of vaccinations. Vaccinations prevents outbreaks. Outbreaks occured in Seattle because of the hotly debated topic of vaccinations & parents choosing not to vaccinate their children.

3) My kid got the Varicella vaccine and later caught the chicken pox during one of our travels. Her case was sooo mild (only about 15 spots!) & cleared up within a few days. I was especially glad she was vaccinated because, even though she still contracted the virus, it was really easy on her.

4) My totally naturopathic-non-vaccinating friends' kid is way autistic/Asperger's  She does *not* connect with others. Unfortunately Autism remains a mystery. I totally understand the desire to find a reason, but if it's "caused" by vaccinations, then how did my friend's child end up with it?

There are plenty of studies that show the relationship between Breastfeeding and Hib.   

See Number 28

http://www.promom.org/101/

Here are several studies that have been quoted.

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/May2 001/Breastfeeding.htm

Denise

Unfortunately, you can get chicken pox again as an adult. They present themselves as shingles. Chicken pox is a virus that never really goes away. I think its stored in spinal fluid? Not sure about that last one, though.

MMR is a pretty important vaccine because those are the fatal diseases. Measles, Mumps and rubella can kill a child very easily. Just look at all the kids in 3rd world countries who don't get vaccinated.  The vaccine isn't a complete cure-all, but it does lessen the severity of the illness.

Original Post by freshbakedpi:

 

4) My totally naturopathic-non-vaccinating friends' kid is way autistic/Asperger's  She does *not* connect with others. Unfortunately Autism remains a mystery. I totally understand the desire to find a reason, but if it's "caused" by vaccinations, then how did my friend's child end up with it?

 A little off topic, but I just read an article about a new video that was developed to help autistic children identify facial emotions. It was some brittish guy. Um, I think the article was on MSNBC.com

Original Post by m0m6:

Original Post by freshbakedpi:

 

4) My totally naturopathic-non-vaccinating friends' kid is way autistic/Asperger's  She does *not* connect with others. Unfortunately Autism remains a mystery. I totally understand the desire to find a reason, but if it's "caused" by vaccinations, then how did my friend's child end up with it?

 A little off topic, but I just read an article about a new video that was developed to help autistic children identify facial emotions. It was some brittish guy. Um, I think the article was on MSNBC.com

 I saw that on pbs a while ago! I think it was MIT? Amazing!

Original Post by weddingmama:

There are plenty of studies that show the relationship between Breastfeeding and Hib.   

See Number 28

http://www.promom.org/101/

Here are several studies that have been quoted.

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/May2 001/Breastfeeding.htm

Denise

 It's related to the antibodies & immune system benefits of breastmilk, not HIB. Also vaccination"news" is an anti vac site.

From promom:

Re: HIB "Breastfeeding is protective against infections caused by this bacteria"

What you said: "if you breastfeed for 6 weeks there's nearly a 90% chance that your child will never get Hib..as this is a disease related to formula feeding. "

http://www.who.int/immunization/topics/hib/en /index.html

Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) is a bacteria responsible for severe pneumonia, meningitis and other invasive diseases almost exclusively in children aged less than 5 years. It is transmitted through the respiratory tract from infected to susceptible individuals.

In 2000, Hib was estimated to have caused two to three million cases of serious disease, notably pneumonia and meningitis, and 386 000 deaths in young children. Hib disease is observed in all parts of the world

http://www.who.int/immunization/topics/hib/en /index.html

http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abs tract/26/2/443?ck=nck

I may have misinterpreted this Abstract now that i have finally found it.  Its been several years since I read it.  However, here is what I was referencing.

Here is the link to the full study. http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/26/ 2/443?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10& RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=A+case-control+stu dy+of+risk+factors+for+Haemophilus+influenzae +type+B+disease+in+Navajo+children&search id=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT

DISCUSSION

We found support for a hypothesis of a long-lasting protective

effect of breastfeeding on invasive HI infection.

When studied as a continuous variable, breastfeeding

gave an overall long-term decreased risk of 0.95 for

each week of breastfeeding, a finding which indicates a

dose-response relationship

Finally, as you may have noticed on this issues of vaccines across the web there seems to be a blanket "FOR OR AGAINST" stance.  IMO Webmd Is No more unbiased on the subject of vaccines than Vaccinenews. 

Denise

Well, today is D-Day. We meet with the doctor at 7:20 tonight. I have typed up our desired vaccine schedule and have all my reasons ready to present. It took me too long to read the vaccine books so my husband hasn't had a chance to read them. He's trusting that I make the right decision and is going to read the books this week so he's as informed as I am.

I really hope he's on board with this.

Original Post by bier:

Well, today is D-Day. We meet with the doctor at 7:20 tonight. I have typed up our desired vaccine schedule and have all my reasons ready to present. It took me too long to read the vaccine books so my husband hasn't had a chance to read them. He's trusting that I make the right decision and is going to read the books this week so he's as informed as I am.

I really hope he's on board with this.

 Let me start by saying how great it is that you are doing this research and are advocating for your child based on your beliefs.

I have one child with autism, and one without.  Both of my children received all vaccines on schedule and I do not believe that there is a link between vaccines and autism.  I believe that my family has a genetic predisposition and that the disorder was triggered somehow in my oldest son (not sure exactly what the trigger was for him - I think it's different for each kid) My beliefs are based on my views as a parent AND as an educator (formal special ed teacher and administrator, now school principal). 

While I disagree with many folks who argue that there is or may be a link, I think that the most important thing is that you are not making an impulsive decision - you are basing your views on what you have read and what your gut is telling you.

Although I disagree, I have far more respect for someone like you who is thinking through the decision than people who are simply being impulsive because of misinformation.  So, while I respectfully believe differently than you, I am really glad that you are advocating for your family in this way and wish you the best.

Thank you, ericsmom, for agreeing to disagree! :)

I agree that some children are predisposed to autism and that it is triggered by something (I believe there is more than one trigger but vaccines are one of them). I have, like you, based this off of my beliefs as an informed parent.

I know that I want to take every precaution I can in preventing autism as well as other vaccine-related injuries from happening to my children. Since there are just too many unknowns, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

All that aside, our doctor agreed to put our son on an alternative vaccine schedule. He put his first of five daughters on a more spread-out schedule because she didn't tolerate vaccines well. He does not agree with our views but he knows we have made an informed decision with our son's best interests in mind. He understands why we would be worried about vaccine saftey yet he assures us that the AAP's current schedule is safe. We value his opinion and appreciate that he has such faith in medicine. He should...he's been in this field for at least 22 years!

Thanks for all the advice. I feel like I'm doing the right thing for my family.

Have you read the book "Evidence of Harm" by David Kirby.  It deals with the link between vaccines and autism. It claims it is the amount of mercury in the vaccines that is the problem. By spacing them out you lower the doses of mercury injected into the child at one given time.

http://www.evidenceofharm.com/introduction.ht m

One of my husband's client's child was featured in the book. She gave my husband a copy. She had hair clipping before the two year shots and after that shows how much mercury was in her child's system.

I have also read a lot of evidence to the claim that there is a link between vaccines and autism. I have also seen my own cousin who seemed like a normal toddler regress into mild autism and even stop talking after undergoing vaccines. We don't have children right now but I would like to read up the disadvantages and benefit of both sides. It doesn't make much sense to me that when you are pregnant you have to limit the amount of mercury you intake but once the child is born they inject him with such high doses.

Can you list the books you have read and which ones you like the best? I will have to check them out since I hope to be heading down the road to parenthood soon.

Very few vaccines today have mercury in them. Mercury tends to be found in multiple-dose vials since it's used as a preservative. Almost all vaccines come in single-dose vials as well and they do not contain mercury. The number of cases of autism keeps rising despite mercury being taken out of vaccines. I read that autistic children have an inability to detoxify their bodies like a normal child would. This means that any toxin that they are exposed to would build up in their system (anything from pollution to chemicals in vaccines (aluminum, formaldehyde, etc.)). Ultimately, this will effect them neurologically.

Nobody knows what causes autism. Everything is a speculation. For every argument for what causes autism, there is one against it. We chose delayed vaccination because we just don't know what harm vaccines cause so we're taking every precaution we can.

I did much of my research online. I will gather my links and post them when I'm not at work :) My favorite book was The Vaccine Book by Dr. Robert Sears. It's very matter-of-fact. It tells how each vaccine is made and what is in them, how rare or common each disease is and how likely vaccine injury is with each shot. There is so much more information in that book that I could hope for and it's written by a pro-vaccine doctor who understands why parents would want to delay or even skip vaccines so you definitely get both sides.

I will look into Evidence of Harm. It sounds like a good read.

Bier,

Again, I really commend you for making decisions based on thorough reading and reflection.  You are correct about few vaccines containing mercury these days.  In fact, the flu vaccine is currently the ONLY one in Virginia that contains thimerisol (the mercury preservative) and our pediatrician always give the single vial, preservative-free version to children under 4, so neither of my children have had any preservative in their vaccines, yet I still have a child with autism.  I will say also that my son with autism is somewhat atypical of most autistic children (each one is so very different anyway).  Eric has very limited social skills, behavioral difficulties (repetative motions and noises) yet he has some incredible strengths.  From the moment he started to talk (which was late) he was reading.  He is hyperlexic and at age four can read any word he sees (doesn't mean that he understands the meaning), he's been telling time on an analog clock to the minute since he was 3, and he can repeat the side effects of any prescription medication he has seen an add for on TV or read in a magazine.  Funny story:  Last week he told a stranger at the store that if she had an erection lasting more than 4 hours, whe needed to seek immediate medical attention...ahh, funny now, not so funny in the moment.  Eric's memory is near photographic.  He is already fairly proficient with a computer and loves to type short sentences and silly words on a word processor.  He is definately a puzzle and a great joy for the general educators and special ed teachers/speech therapists he works with.  I do wish his communication skills were better.  About 90% of what he says is simply delayed echolalia - repetition of things he has read or heard sometimes days or weeks later, like reciting an entire episode of Blue's Clues that he has only seen once.  Everyday I count my blessings that Eric is considered to be "high functioning" autistic, although whether or not he will ever be able to be independent remains to be seen.  While I wish autism on no child or family, I will say that I feel lucky to have Eric just the way he is, quirks and all.  In a way I think Eric is also lucky to be in a family of educators who are prepared to address his needs and advocate for him to the degree that we do.