Being vegetarian and getting drunk with alcohol

I'm just curious, but when you guys drink alcohol (beer, wine, liquor), and you get drunk, have you made mistakes and accidentally eaten meat because you were so wasted and uninhibited? Especially if you are an ex-meat eater?

I went to a wedding over the weekend, and got really drunk with vodka mixed with cranberry juice. Surprisingly, I still was aware of the fact that I was a vegetarian. However, when someone offered me a seafood appetizer, I took it and ate it unfortunately, not knowing that it was seafood and hence, non-vegetarian. It made me realize later on that I shouldn't drink so much because in public situations, other people may not care about the fact that you're a vegetarian -------- only you can care but must have full control of your senses and who you are.

Sorry if this post sounds like a joke -------- I'm actually serious, and I don't mean to imply that anyone on this board is an alcoholic. The vast majority of people drink socially, but unfortunately may lead to bad consequences while being incapacitated such as accidentally eating meat when you wouldn't normally eat it, or someone taking advantage of you.

A similar thing happened to me this weekend actually. After downing quite a bit of vanilla vodka+diet coke I found myself munching on jellied candies and poptarts, both of which contained gelatin. Which, although it's not meat, is something I swore off when turning full veggie (along with founds containing rennet)

Hangover aside, I felt so bad the next day because if I know that if I wasn't drinking I wouldn't have considered eating either.

Self Control....

I've been a vegetarian for 9 years and honestly i use to have nightmares about me eating meat!! But i know what you mean about alcohol loosening your inhibition. it may be that you're craving protein so get great altnatives like tofurky dogs or go dine at a great vegetarian restaurant (seitan dishes) so that you can avoid slipping. =) It'll be OK. You just need to think about how eating flesh is really not your thing..

Hell will freeze over before I ever eat red meat or seafood when inebriated (not that I allow myself to get to that point) however this is because I have never enjoyed red meat or seafood. The same cannot be said about sweets (pastries, cookies, chocolate, etc) so this is where self-control does come into play. Two very different situations.

Perhaps someone here can educate me.

I am happily omniverous, but I have no problem with people not wanting to eat meat, or even animal products.  I'm assuming that people choose to be vegetarian for various and particular reasons (unknown to me).  However, I also see many posts like this where the "vegetarian" is apparently (for lack of a better grasp on the subject) "relapsing," as if an alcoholic has been unable to resist having a drink or a recovering substance abuser found himself snorting lines at a party. 

My question then is: Why is it such a problem for a "vegetarian" to "slip" and eat some meat?  Obviously, if meat is knowingly being eaten by the "vegetarian," it is his choice to do so, but I don't understand the "guilt" that accompanies these "relapses."  It's not a crime, it's not an addiction or illness, and as far as I can tell, it's not a morality issue (or is it?).  He just feels the need or desire to eat meat at that point in time (which of course negates his self-imposed status as a true vegetarian). 

For example:  I'm on a quest to lose some weight.  I am a self-proclaimed "dieter."  I have sworn off Krispy Kreme in an effort to improve my general health and facilitate my goal of weight loss.  But once in 4 months, someone brings donuts into the office, and I eat one.  I choose to do so.  I don't feel bad about it, or walk around with a guilty conscience all day.  I simply have decided that 5 minutes of a favorable taste sensation is a reasonable trade-off for introducing a few extra calories into my diet.  It doesn't ruin my disposition for the day, I don't immediately get on the CC forums and lament my lack of self-control.

In my mind, a vegetarian just DOESN'T desire to eat meat, regardless of his level of intoxication.  If the temptation remains to eat meat after proclaiming vegetarianism, how (or even WHY?) can the person claim to be vegetarian?        

Could some knowing vegetarian please help to put this in terms that I can relate to?

Thanks. 

And I just saw v_avila's response, which just puts the ! on my question...

I hope someone else here will give you the LONG answer to your question. As I'm low on patience and just can't bring myself to explain all the different reasons why people are vegetarian and vegan... and why accidently eating meat hurts them so much. So I will say this:  You know how it is against the Hindu religion to eat meat? Well it is for both ethical AND health reasons. So if they accidently eat meat, they have "sinned" in a way. Same thing with vegetarians and vegans. I am vegan for only ethical  and moral reasons; you can kind of consider it a part of my religion... as eating animals and animal products is against what I consider ethical and moral. Does that make sense? Like a Christian who kills someone. God tells you not to kill, but you do, and you forever live with the guilt. Like that :) 

I'm very tired... so I'm sorry if none of what I wrote makes sense.

Original Post by flonklar:

My question then is: Why is it such a problem for a "vegetarian" to "slip" and eat some meat?  Obviously, if meat is knowingly being eaten by the "vegetarian," it is his choice to do so, but I don't understand the "guilt" that accompanies these "relapses."  It's not a crime, it's not an addiction or illness, and as far as I can tell, it's not a morality issue (or is it?).  He just feels the need or desire to eat meat at that point in time (which of course negates his self-imposed status as a true vegetarian). 

For example:  I'm on a quest to lose some weight.  I am a self-proclaimed "dieter."  I have sworn off Krispy Kreme in an effort to improve my general health and facilitate my goal of weight loss.  But once in 4 months, someone brings donuts into the office, and I eat one.  I choose to do so.  I don't feel bad about it, or walk around with a guilty conscience all day.  I simply have decided that 5 minutes of a favorable taste sensation is a reasonable trade-off for introducing a few extra calories into my diet.  It doesn't ruin my disposition for the day, I don't immediately get on the CC forums and lament my lack of self-control.

In my mind, a vegetarian just DOESN'T desire to eat meat, regardless of his level of intoxication.  If the temptation remains to eat meat after proclaiming vegetarianism, how (or even WHY?) can the person claim to be vegetarian?        

Could some knowing vegetarian please help to put this in terms that I can relate to?

Thanks. 

 First, I think for most vegetarians, it IS a morality issue. That is the main problem. Some times when i smell some of my old favorites I am tempted. (I am a relatively new vegetarian.) Some things i will never be tempted by again such as a steak. I have absolutely NO DESIRE to ever eat a steak or anything with such a texture again. i would not eat this while drunk, sober, nothing. it has no appeal. however, more processed foods which i know are more terrible for me and more terrible for moral reasons are the things i have cravings for. i think that the processing almost removes the animal "feel" of a meat. or if the meat is finely chopped or otherwise well hidden -- this could pose a problem. and again, these are my personal obstacles only.

as for not lamenting on your donut issues on CC, i think that is a personal choice bc i have seen many a post from a disheartened dieter who needs the support after having just chowed through some pastries. that is what CC is here for. this forum is for vegetarians......so maybe that is why the vegetarians are here asking for support? idk makes sense to me.

yes it is complicated. no you may never understand. i did not for years. i make no judgement on anybody's choices for eating meat or not. it is a personal choice and i hope that my choices may make a tiny difference.

I think I once ate a pizza with salami when drunk beyond belief, but I can't recall (other than throwing it up the next day). I never liked salami or meat pizza, but I don't think I even cared what I was putting in my mouth at the time, it could  be painted cardboard and I wouldn't notice.

I'm vegan, but I've eaten vegetarian food a couple times while not sober.  I've eaten macaroni and cheese before while high, since I had the munchies, I really really missed non-vegan macaroni and cheese (it used to be one of my favorite foods), and my self-control was shot.

I also had a drink with dairy in it (it was a buttery nipple - sooooo good but not vegan) last month because I was already pretty drunk, I loved that drink before I went vegan, and my friend pressed it on me.

That said, I'm very committed to eating vegan, it just can be tricky when you are faced with your favorite non-veg foods and you are drunk and not thinking clearly. I don't think I'd ever want to eat animal flesh (meat, fish) again though, sober or not sober.

I have been a vegetarian for thirteen years. Although I believe in many of the arguments for a vegetarian lifestyle, the primary motivation behind my first going veg was the morality issue. I was nine when I stopped eating meat, and it was very very difficult for me. I had cravings all of the time. Still do.

That said, about a year ago on a late night walk back from the pub, I had one of my only slip-ups to date. I found myself in a McDonald's eating a fillet o' fish at 3:00 am. I remember doing it, but I have no idea what made me make that decision. I felt guilty, but I didn't consider myself any less of a vegetarian.

When I drink, I also find myself biting off all of my nails. Another habit that I have worked hard at breaking . . .

I've never slipped and eaten meat when drunk, but I've slipped and eaten non-vegan things for sure.  I can't think of an example, and I don't make a habit of it, but no veg*n is infalliable. 

I think people have covered the reason for the guilt pretty sufficiently already; a lot of veg*ns ARE vegan for moral and ethical reasons.  For me, at least, I consider killing another being to be immoral whether they are human or non-human.  Period.

Original Post by meredithgonzalez:

 First, I think for most vegetarians, it IS a morality issue. That is the main problem...  yes it is complicated. no you may never understand. i did not for years. i make no judgement on anybody's choices for eating meat or not. it is a personal choice and i hope that my choices may make a tiny difference.

I appreciate the response and the attempt.  You're right, it must be complicated, because it still makes little sense to me (not the concept of vegetarianism, but the guilt over the desire, whether it be meat or donuts, as well as the "morality").  But certainly I'm not here to judge, just trying to get a handle on it. 

So to go one step further, what is it exactly that you are trying to "make a tiny difference" in?  Something within yourself, or something without? 

Original Post by amyvegan:

I've never slipped and eaten meat when drunk, but I've slipped and eaten non-vegan things for sure.  I can't think of an example, and I don't make a habit of it, but no veg*n is infalliable. 

I think people have covered the reason for the guilt pretty sufficiently already; a lot of veg*ns ARE vegan for moral and ethical reasons.  For me, at least, I consider killing another being to be immoral whether they are human or non-human.  Period.

Not intending to be rude, but (if this was directed at me) I was asking about vegetarians, not vegans.  Veganism I will never be able to grasp!

Someone on here explained that in Hinduism(certain sects such as Hare Krishnas), it is a regulation that you must follow, "no meat, fish, or eggs". I'm a lacto-vegetarian and I've slipped and ate products with eggs, but I can imagine the guilt that can result from it. First of, you feel like a hypocrite. Who is to say what is moral, it is you, the person you feel you should be that decides. A person can suffer cognitive dissonance when their ideal person doesn't fit their actions(classic example's smokers knowing smoking is bad but continuing to do it. they will change their behavior, or form excuses for facts they discover).

So, my dear flonklar, morality is what we make of it. To some, their religion guides it; to others, it is their own vow to not break what they find is morally repulsive such as eating flesh. Second, a vegetarian is one who wants to prevent the unnecessary cruelty and eating of another soul (in my beliefs, plants have souls too,so therefore I acquire karma but by offering it to God (yes, I brough the G word in), I'm doing so for only sustaining myself). In my beliefs, He says, "if one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit, or water, I will accept it.” He doesn't say yes go bring me a carcass, offer it to me, and then chomp it down. But, you must understand, someone who has tasted meat before, when in the mode of ignorance(drinking), they are under the influence of maya(illusion) that they would act in ways they wouldn't ordinarily do. The guilt IS normal. It is the culture you are in which decides what is acceptable and what is not. This is one form of answer for your inquisitive mind. No need to chastise someone for having guilt for doing something they feel is morally unacceptable. Maybe one day people will excuse eating human flesh as healthy and desireable (afterall, human meat is composed of the ratios we need the most). There are many biological evidence that supports that a vegetarian diet is best for humans. For instance, the length of our small intestine. And the fact that, most people can get their necessary protein for eating a balanced meal between red beans, and corn...go figure as to why Americans are not exactly the fittest.

Hell, I could even go as far as to say, it is not "morally righteous" to be obese. It's overconsumption...people can be addicted to food, you know! It's the need to escape into desires, and succumb to any temptation, a sort of lack of self-control! Do I think everyone who is bigger overconsumes bc of their inability to have self-control. Not necessarily because sometimes genetics, and the enviornment(parents) affect your weight. Just a thought! let's not go further into philosophical debates. I can quote all the great thinkers, and intellects from BC as to why they're vegetarian but it wouldn't matter. One's choice has to come from within...how zen of me! ;-)

This is but only one reason for veganism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kHmS6onJH0

Seriously, it's a hard to digest video at some parts, but it discusses the way humans have exploited animals...to each their own I guess, I'm not one to preach, but flonklar, this might answer some of your questions.

Edited to address flonklar, not enchantedsky.  sorry!

Thanks goldengirl87 for explaining it... I usually jump at the opportunity to make things clearer for those who don't understand... but I just couldn't this time. You hit the nail on the head :)

I practice veganism.  Life itself is a journey, not necessarily a destination. 

We all make mistakes; the important thing is to learn from them, when we have compromised our ideals.  If a certain behavior is compromising your ideals, you have to choose whether that behavior is worth it or not.

I was an O/L vegetarian for 30+ years.  It took me that long to reach the ethical part of not consuming any animal products at all.

That said, I still occasionally make a mistake (unintentional) of consuming products with milk or egg in them.  I do try very hard not to do this, and never do it consciously.  So I don't feel guilty when I make a mistake.

That said, nothing is really black and white.  Some folks may have to take medicine that contains some form of animal product where there is no alternative product.  All you can really do, is to do your conscious best and be comfortable with that.

Original Post by flonklar:

Perhaps someone here can educate me.

I am happily omniverous, but I have no problem with people not wanting to eat meat, or even animal products.  I'm assuming that people choose to be vegetarian for various and particular reasons (unknown to me).  However, I also see many posts like this where the "vegetarian" is apparently (for lack of a better grasp on the subject) "relapsing," as if an alcoholic has been unable to resist having a drink or a recovering substance abuser found himself snorting lines at a party. 

My question then is: Why is it such a problem for a "vegetarian" to "slip" and eat some meat?  Obviously, if meat is knowingly being eaten by the "vegetarian," it is his choice to do so, but I don't understand the "guilt" that accompanies these "relapses."  It's not a crime, it's not an addiction or illness, and as far as I can tell, it's not a morality issue (or is it?).  He just feels the need or desire to eat meat at that point in time (which of course negates his self-imposed status as a true vegetarian). 

For example:  I'm on a quest to lose some weight.  I am a self-proclaimed "dieter."  I have sworn off Krispy Kreme in an effort to improve my general health and facilitate my goal of weight loss.  But once in 4 months, someone brings donuts into the office, and I eat one.  I choose to do so.  I don't feel bad about it, or walk around with a guilty conscience all day.  I simply have decided that 5 minutes of a favorable taste sensation is a reasonable trade-off for introducing a few extra calories into my diet.  It doesn't ruin my disposition for the day, I don't immediately get on the CC forums and lament my lack of self-control.

In my mind, a vegetarian just DOESN'T desire to eat meat, regardless of his level of intoxication.  If the temptation remains to eat meat after proclaiming vegetarianism, how (or even WHY?) can the person claim to be vegetarian?        

Could some knowing vegetarian please help to put this in terms that I can relate to?

Thanks. 

 Well I can't speak for other people, but the reason I have turned vegetarian is not because I don't like meat (I love it!) or because I think there is anything wrong with eating meat.  Fundamentally, I don't have a problem with eating meat at all, I think it is something that we as humans naturally do.  BUT my problem is with the meat industry.  It is wholly unethical, animals are kept in horrific conditions and treated in a tortuous way.  That just doesn't sit right on my conscience and if I buy that meat I am directly funding the industry and therefore condoning it.  I have a friend who lives on a farm and his cattle are all out in the fields living a happy life and when they slaughter them they keep the meat for the family.  I'd eat that and the same for other meat where the animals had been kept humanely.  But you can't really guarantee that unless you buy direct from source (I live in London so the free range ahppy farms are a little thin on the ground!!) and it can be so expensive, so for that reason I'm a vegetarian.  And that is why I could see myself slipping if I had had too much to drink but I would feel guilty the next day because I would have contributed to an industry that I am against and therefore gone completely against my morals.

Does that make any sense?