Why are you vegetarian?

are you a vegetarian, I am for ethical reasons, I have been working in the animal field (veterinary, rescue, & welfare) for 15 years and I can not eat the fuzzy things I work so hard to save.

Wondering what your reason is: health, ethics, religion, etc?

 

I was for a long time, but now am not. My problem is not eating meat, but how we farm, slaughter, process and package it. I raise and eat my own poultry (at least I did before I fed the fox family ... will again next year though), and we are about to get 3 cattle to raise for meat with some friends of ours.

While I do not particularly like 'killing' pets, I am much happier knowing where the food I am eating came from, and that it was not raised in a building, feedlot or otherwise, and that it was happy until its time came ....... not to mention the extra flavor.....

Sorry if this post offends any vege/vegans out there, it is just my point of view.

I'm vegan, and have been for over 3 years now, for several reasons.  Mainly, I refuse to support the factory farming industry for the harm it does to humans (infectious disease such as madcow, birdflu; heart disease; antibacterial resistance due to overmedicating the animals; unsafe working conditions for employees, etc.) and the environment (i.e. rainforest destruction, pollution from animal waste; etc.); and the UNDENIABLE cruelty that the "food" animals are subjected to.  What also really bothers me is that people don't realize that factory farming is where meat comes from now.  There's no "down home on the farm" anymore.  If you buy bacon, it was factory farmed.  If you buy hamburger, it was factory farmed - possibly on what used to be a Brazillian rainforest. 

From the more corporate angle; multinational factory farming corporations either buy out or put out of business any "family farms" that exist, so that many of these old farmers are forced to become factory farmers themselves in order to compete, or just give up.

I have explored the ethical implications of eating animals (regardless of their treatment before slaughter) and haven't decided one way or another whether it is right or wrong to eat animals in general; but I know I never would again.

Anyways, since this is the new "Vegetarian" forum (yay) I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir so I'll stop there...

My reasons in the past were mostly environmental. 

In the 1960s, I was a Julia Child kind of a cook.  I had no problem with eating meat of any kind.  

In the 70s I read Diet for a Small Planet by Frances Moore Lappe and realized that we feed most of what is grown to animals so we can eat the animals.  I decided to bypass that part of the food chain and go right to the source.  It was easy because I divorced and had only myself and my son who was a toddler and would eat anything.

As the years passed I decided to add dairy products after making a number of Hindu friends.  I added meat & eggs to my diet when I got married for the second time and had a family to feed again, mostly, I'm sorry to say, because it was easier than cooking two sets of meals and dealing with food likes and dislikes. 

Now, here I am, totally single for the first time in my life, and loving it. I still put those old vegan priciples into use and have one vegan meal per day.  I still love whole grains, legumes.  Another vegetarian, age 95, once told me that if you eat all the colors you will be healthy.  I find myself still doing that - looking at my plate to see if I have lots of colors on it.

Claire

Here's a funny experiment you can try sometime if you find yourself sitting down to a meal with someone who claims to be a vegetarian for utilitarian reasons (i.e., they claim to be a vegetarian because they think it is for some overall good--be it environmental, social, moral, etc.--that is worth the sacrificed price of giving up eating meat), and they think that everyone else should be a vegetarian for this reason, too. In short, they think: the more veg-heads, the better.

Let's suppose that one of these vegetarians and 10 meat eaters sit down to eat. One of the meat eaters proposes to the vegetarian: "Just for tonight, all of us meat-eaters will order vegetarian dishes, if you order a meat dish. Otherwise, if you order your usual vegetarian dish, we will all order our usual meat dishes."

Now, on theoretical grounds (given the hypothetical vegtarian's reasons for being a vegetarian) she should take the deal and eat meat for the night. This is because diminishing the demand for meat products by any little bit is supposedly the overall goal--i.e., if more people stopped eating meat, then less meat would be produced, and then all the bad effects form meat production would be stopped, etc.  But it's interesting to see how many vegetarians would decline the deal.

And if a vegetarian protests that this experiment is silly because it's just one meal that wouldn't make an overall difference (which would be an interesting objection coming from a vegetarian since that would seem to indicate that she could sometimes eat meat, since, hey, one meal here or there won't make a difference), then you can change the experiment to this: the 10 meat-eaters will give up meat for an entire year if the vegetarian will eat meat for an entire year. On utilitarian grounds, at least, it seems the vegetarian should do it.

Now, look, I'm a veggie myself (basically). But I do like proposing this thought experiment to fellow veg-heads just to see where their commitments really lie. It shows, I think, that for most veggies, it's more of a personal thing. For example, I don't think I would take the deal, even if it would impact the meat industry in some significant way, because I don't know if I could get myself to eat meat---even just once, and certainly not for an entire year. But, then, I'm not a veggie who thinks that everone else (or more people anyway) should be one too.

Any thoughts?

I started for health reasons but then once I did some research I was so disgusted with the horrible treatment of animals and more so the complete ignorance most people have to the "hamburger" they are eating on a daily basis. Even I had no idea what I was putting in my mouth.

However, I do have a firm belief that we have a food chain and yes if they were not killed we would have chaos and overpopulation but that is why Free-Range I think is such a powerful concept.

That's an interesting experiment because yes it is very very personal and your mind/body really does start to reject the whole concept of eating meat so I dont know what I would do. However I always say to my friends who sort of love to play Devil's Advocate wtih me that I do this based on my own feelings/own decision. I have no problem with someone eating meat, do I agree with it persay, No but do I think they are a terrible person for doing so, not at all. We all make our decisions and we all either benefit or deal with consequences from them.

I think what really needs to change is not whether people eat meat but how the animals prior to slaughter are treated.

On a happier note has anyone tried. Nana's vegan cookies (gluten free too hoorah) they are sooo goood!

well said, k!

and, no, i haven't tried the cookies. i should check them out...

I agree with phimegaphi.  In my experience, most vegetarians I know seem more interested in "saving the animals" one plate at a time, instead of affecting the economics of it.

My reason...I read Fast Food Nation.  The Jungle of our times!  Ugh.  It seems silly to change one's habits after a (most likely biased, one sided) book.  But I did it gradually - first eliminating all fast food, period.  Then I realized I didn't miss it, and that hormones and improper feeding probably happened with the farmers that sold what I got at the store.  So that went, too.

As my reasoning is from a purely farming-style standpoint, I will eat organic, free range, grain fed meats.  But like I've said in another post, I'm far too cheap to buy them.

Humorously, though, I have not been able to give up fish.  While I only eat it once a month or so, sushi is a dear love, and you will have to pry it away from my cold, dead hands.

So, I'll probably die of mercury poisoning before mad cow.  It happens.

 I am not sure what benefit the propsed experiemnet would acheive. phimegaphi has 11 people eating, 10 meat, 1 veggie.  The end result would still be 10 meat based meals.  Would I do it? no, I would not let anyone pressure, cajole, etc into a meat meal.  I haven't eaten it in over 20 years, some table side pressure isn't going to affect me.  Under normal circumstances would I care that I was the only non meat eater?  no. but the proposed experiment and conversation would probably be annoying to me.  I don't ask other people to go veggie leave my salad alone.  It would be disrespectful...

I gave up meat as a protest to the factory farming industry, and the fact that a lot of meat is loaded with hormones and antibiotics. I was never really a huge fan of red meat or pork, and after having a couple pet birds, I got turned off to chicken.

That being said, I do eat fish (per doctor's orders) and shellfish, and have no real problem with people eating meat.

I treat it as a personal choice, and though I give money to PETA, I don't really follow a lot of their rabid beliefs.

Sorry to disappoint phimegaphi, but I'm not going to even suggest this experiment to my friends.  I respect them and their personal decisions.  I don't have any illusion (at my age, who does) of changing the world.  Of course, I have no problem eating meat once in a while.

My reasoning back when I made that decision was, that it made more sense to eat plant foods rather than feed them to animals, then eat the animals.  Also, it's a very cheap way to eat and healthy too.

Most vegetarians I meet are very mellow.  I wonder what makes people contentious about feeding themselves.

oh, i didn't mean to really try the experiment out. it's just a thought experiment to uncover the underlying reasons why people are vegetarians. it certainly isn't meant to offend anyone; it's just a fun way to test people's intuitions on the matter.

and i'm not disappointed, clairelaine! if you haven't yet noticed, there's not much I take seriously.  ;)

Environmental and health reasons for me.  It is shocking to see with your own eyes the impact unsustainable agriculture has on the natural environment, especially developing nations.  Not to mention, consuming meat is inefficient.  The amount of grain used to produce the meat could feed many many more people than the meat could. 

I personally try to lower my personal impact on the enviornment.  Eating meat in developed nations is a culture issue - which is why people are so defensive about it.  I feel I am most happy with my life when I make conscious decisions, not passive ones b/c that's what I grew up doing or that's what everyone else does.

I would be very ill if I ate meat, so I guess I couldn't participate in the experiment.  Besides, I think the logic behind it does not consider the reasons for changing your diet one way or the other - instead it is a spiteful decision - not one made consciously based on information and knowledge.

I became vegetarian because I didn?t want to course things to die when I didn?t have to, so no meat, fish, or chicken. Have no issue with other people eating meat. Don?t like factory farming much, have my own chickens & try to grow my own food. I do eat dairy, was vegan for a bit for medical reasons, didn?t like that much. I try to avoid gelatine & other hidden animal derivatives. Have you every tried finding a vegetarian beer? It?s a bit difficult when I go out or at new places but it?s my choice, I can it meat, I choose not to.

Easy guys! phimegaphi was just posing a hypothetical situations. Why are we all getting so upset and defensive? I say well done! It's questions like that which make you search yourself and go... hmm..."what would I do?" I liked the concept, its interesting because most of us would definitely choose not to eat the meat.

And Oh try those...Whole Foods carries them I dont know if anywhere else though. Oh and this just in. Trader Joes SoyMilk...not bad!

brew your own beer!

Phimegaphi -

Utilitarianism is not the only ethical system that those who have made an educated decision about veg*ism use.  Many (if not most) veg*ans cannot provide elaborate explanations for their choice.  They may be, as you have described yourself, "acutetarians" and just do not want to eat animals because they "looovvee" them.  Or, they may be doing it because they have come to the conclusion, through personal experience, that meat and other animal products are "fattening" or otherwise unhealthy.  These were the reasons I would provide people for my vegetarianism when I turned at the age of 8.

Acutearians:
As I got older and was able to at least somewhat comprehend more complex social theories, I have learned to defend my position more elaborately.  But this doesn't mean that I think I should have to - if I don't feel like arguing with someone who is criticizing my menu choice, I'll tell them I like animals, I don't want to eat them, and that I don't want to get any fatter.  If I have been keeping my mouth shut about what THEY'RE eating, and munching away on my Dragon Bowl, it's my personal choice and I don't need to give anyone any better reason than that for what I do with my life when it affects no one else.

But it doesn't stop there.  I AM a vegan advocate.  Generally, as a rule, I don't engage people in conversations about veganism at the dinner table - especially before they've eaten (people can be awfully grumpy when they're hungry).  But if someone wants to, and is capable of, sitting down and having an educated conversation about the ethics of eating animals with me - I am ALWAYS up for it. 

Utilitarianism:
If I were to put myself in the shoes of a vegan utilitarian, I would probably agree to your proposal if the following conditions were met:
1) the people that were ordering vegetarian meals were at a restaurant where they were capable of ordering a half-decent vegetarian meal (not some measley side salad) that would leave them satisfied as well has properly nourished
2) i could order the meat dish, and just not eat it.  i'll eat when i get home. i also have to be able to choose what meat dish i ate.  for example, a utilitarian would probably consider some sort of seafood as it probably causes less overall harm than some other choices like pork which is made of the 3rd most intelligent animal - the pig.

Reasons: Animals, The Environment, and Helping Humans
One could, potentially, use utilitarianism to explain why they do not want to kill animals for their own pleasure (eating) as the suffering caused to the animals outweighs the happiness gained by the eater. 

But as far as environmental, and other concerns that do not directly involve the killing of sentient beings with a potential capacity to feel happiness - utilitarianism is irrelevant - scientific fact is relevant.  It is scientfically unrefuteable that the modern meat and dairy industry is detrimental to the environment (for those who are not familiar with the reasons, you'll easily find info using a quick google search).  By voting for this industry with your dollar, you are continuing this destruction.  That's your decision, and just as you can't "give away" your vote during an election, I won't give away my vote for the environment when I sit down at a restaurant and order a meal.

Now I've said repeatedly that I'm not a utilitarian and I suppose it's getting close to time for me to quantify that.  As I said in my original post, I have yet to affirm my position on the ethics of killing animals for food if the other conditions for why I became vegan did not exist (environmental destruction, exaggerated cruelty, etc.).  However if I had to choose, I would say I lean much closer towards animals' inherent right to life vs. utilitarianism.  And if I believe in animals' inherent right to life, then the logical conclusion is that I do not believe that humans have the right to take away that life when it is unnecessary.  Thus, I must also believe that there may be some sort of consequence for doing so (karma) in this life (atherosclerosis?) or perhaps an afterlife, and will refuse to make a choice (eating a meat dish) for myself that could affect my karma.

Now enough hippie talk.  More often than not, generally speaking, eating animals is bad for people, the animals, the environment, and my conscience.  So I abstain. 

** For those who are going to react to my reaction (as some already have to others'), I'd just like to note a couple things: I felt slightly personally attacked with Phimegaphi's post as s/he used my reasons for veganism in his/her argument. Second, it's important not to confuse lively debate with conflict. 

- AmethystLavender

fair enuff, amethyst.  i didn't mean to imply that utilitarianism was the only reason, just one of many. my bad for wording it so that it seemed otherwise. sorry! and your points are good ones.

BTW: i'm a she. ;)

in any case, amethyst, i appreciate the well thought-out and honest post. and apologies again if my post offended; i'll be more careful next time.

p.s. just curious--why'd you think i was a dude?

OMG, did I open up a can of worms!!!!! Are they vegetarian, I wonder?  (YUCK)

Anyway, I am also curious, those of you who are vegan, are you all the way, no leather, no honey, etc. 

I am veggie because I LOOVE animals as suggested above, I also protest factory farming, disgusting, and unhealthy.  I get eggs from a friend who has a wonderful farm full of happy chickens, where I have a problem is with cheese.  I am constantly overwhelmed with my research on US companies and their products, animal testing, animal products, etc.  I am wondering if anyone knows much about european processing of food products, ie: CHEESE.  I would like to think that they are kinder/gentler because that makes life easier for me.  Whatcha all think?  (Not sure I really want to know for sure :-)