Vegetarian vs. Vegan

I am certain that this topic has been presented time and again, so  please forgive its repetitive nature. 

I am considering incorporating a vegetarian diet into my family's meals during the week (we will eat some meats on the weekends, at least at first).  First of all, what is the difference between a vegetarian and a vegan?  Secondly, what do you experienced vegetarians think about my "plan"?  I'd love to hear pros and cons while I am still in the planning phase.  My family is supportive (except one daughter), so I am open to suggestions.  Thanks!

Vegetarians usually include eggs and/or dairy in their diets. Vegans consume no animal products. I think your plan is great! There are no real cons as far as i'm concerned. It will probably save you some money, too!

The definition above is accurate :)  As big of an advocate I am for the benefits of the vegan diet, I would recommend going ovo-lacto (still using eggs and dairy products) with your family, at least at first.  People seem to adjust better if they can still eat omelets and cheese and such.  Most people I know (including myself) were ovo-lacto for at least a little while before going vegan.

Either way, you should research healthy recipes.  Both ways of eating have pitfalls.  The biggest drawback to the ovo-lacto vegetarianism is that people tend to rely heavily on dairy products and do the "all cheese, all the time" thing which is obviously not extraordinarily healthy (it helped me gain 30+ lbs anyway).  The biggest drawback to the vegan lifestyle is that it takes dedication and education - if you don't know what you're doing and how to balance meals nutritionally, you can end up just as unhealthy as if you were guzzling cheeze whiz from a can.

For fun recipes try http://www.vegweb.com  It's a vegan site, but a lot of the recipes can be "de-veganized" if you like by adding cheese or using real milk instead of soy, etc.

Feel free to ask anyone here in this forum for advice, never be afraid to try new foods (even if they sound really gross at first - you very well might be surprised!) and have fun :)

I went on a diet to lose my asthma and high blood pressure. I went Vegan but a step further. I also ate nothing processed. Vegans can still eat flour and other processed products. One week after starting the diet my asthma was gone. A couple of weeks later my blood pressure also went normal. The calluses on my feet were gone, my skin was so soft it was softer then my 5 year old, my energy was incredible, but about a month after starting the diet I started getting muscle spasms so I started adding a small amount of animal products back into my diet, but still no processed products such as cheese and yogurts. My spasms went right away and I am still off all asthma and blood pressure meds.

So I guess you me a No Processed Vegetarian LOL.

Dkcreel, I think your idea is briliant. I have been vegetarian all my life. And it has nothing to do with health - I just don't like meat. Sometimes I do have chicken, but that's only when I'm eating Chinese food becasue I really like Chinese chicken. Maybe one of your family members will discover that they don't really like non-veg either.
I agree taht you should keep having meat on weekends for starters. but gradually, lessen your non-veg intake to just maybe one meal or none at all. Going vegetarian is not really hard, and has only advantages, no cons.

amani_009, i don't think someone that eats chicken, even occasionally should call themselves a life long vegetarian.

Hi dkcreel, I think that eating a healthy plant-based diet is a great idea that will have wonderful benefits for your whole family. A diet based around lots of nutritient-rich fruits and vegetables, which only includes very small amounts of meat can be very healthy. In fact it is healthier than being a vegetarian who lives off junk food and eats very little fresh produce!

I would highly recommend getting a book called 'Disease-Proof Your Child: Feeding Kids Right', by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. It contains some very interesting information about how childhood diet is linked to adult diseases, and how you can help insure the future health of your children by providing them with an optimal diet. The book is full of recipes that are kid-friendly, and geared toward the nutritional needs of growing kids. Dr. Fuhrman promotes a plant-based diet, which means eating lots of plant foods and little or no meat. Some meat is allowed if you want it, but it is in limited amounts.

yep that's a good idea!!
My mom's a vegetarian, so she cooks our family vegetarian meals occasionally, and as of last june I am also a vegetarian [lacto-ovo], and my family is fine with it, even my dad who is like a meat addict.
However I'm on my way to becoming a vegan... I don't think I can do it over night though.
And ever since i moved to england from japan 7 years ago i have suffered from all sorts of allergies, but since going vegetarian I have been more allergy-free. So I'm ecstatic... now i just have to see how the hayfever is this  summer.

Got to agree with veganlady. Vegetarianism/veganism is a way of life. Saying you are vegetarian but occassionally eat meat is like saying you are celibate, except for the occasional indulgence in carnal pleasures with 1 or 9 tasty human specimens. (^_^)b Technically, you are an omnivore.

I think you have a good plan there, dkcreel. I quit meat cold turkey (sad pun unintended) when I was 13, but I am very strong-willed (read: hard harded) and quit for ideological reasons so it was a relatively smooth transition. I think many people have better success going a more gradual route. I am currently trying to very s l o w l y transition back into veganism. I was a very strict vegan for about 2 yrs., but I am lazy and did not concern myself, at all, with my health back then. I ended up really unhealthy and almost anemic. As long as you pay attention to what you are putting in your body (keeping track of protein, iron, calcium, & fiber content) and avoid processed, genetically modified, and chemical- ridden foods like a plague, vegetarianism/veganism can be the best choice you make for your health.

I disagree.  Eating vegetarian or vegan is a dietary choice.  Maybe there are other aspects of your personal ethics that you associate with your dietary choices, but whether other people who eat vegetarian/vegan share those aspects of your life is more questionable.  I really dislike implications that this is all about a belief system because then you start getting into bickering about who's a "real" vegan and who's an imposter.  So if you vote the straight Republican ticket for twenty years except for the one time you voted for Kennedy, does that mean you aren't a "real" Republican?  Why is the label so important? 

amani, I for one appreciate your aspirations and respect your weakness where eating meat is concerned.

i don't think the terms vegetarian or vegan are open to interpretation, neither is omnivore for that matter. someone who eats meat, even occasionally is not a "life long" vegetarian. i am not condemnng anyone for their choices, i just think that situations like this are what causes confusion about what a vegetarian or vegan is. i have known people who eat chicken and fish and claim vege, they can say it all they want, it doesn't mean they are.

just my 2 cents.

lysistrata, My vegetarianism stems from a belief system - [b]never[/b], in my post, did I say or even imply that anyone else's does or should. I could not care less about 'labels'. I like words. The topic of discussion was terminology... not ideology. (~_^)b "vegetarian: eater of fruits and grains and nuts; someone who eats no meat or fish or (often) any animal products" As for your comparison, if you really want to know my opinion, there is not a whole lot of difference between the two dominant political parties, anyways(at least not these days). Two sides of the same coin, albeit one dirtier than the otheer. But the comparison doesn't make much sense, as political beliefs/parties/choices are complex/varied and not a black and white matter. "Vegetarian" is a simplistic term and /is/ black and white. You eat meat... you're not a vegetarian.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe it's such an all-or-nothing issue.  By your definitions, a person who gives in to temptation on rare occasions, or who sometimes chooses to eat meat for other reasons, isn't really a vegetarian.  I don't agree with this.  Left to my own, I haven't eaten meat or fish in years.  But on some social occasions I will eat meat because it is the only polite thing to do.  For example, last summer I visited my husband's family for the first time.  They live on the Chesapeake bay and eat lots of fresh seafood, and that's what they served me for dinner every night for 10 days.  I considered it far more important to avoid offending the in-laws and creating a rift than to make a big issue out of being a vegetarian ... so I ate the fresh crabs and clams that they served me, even though I would never eat those things on my own accord.  Does that mean I'm not "really" a vegetarian?  Is that different from the person who eats a predominantly vegetarian diet, but just can't resist the orange chicken at the chinese restaurant? 

My point is that dietary choices can be complicated and occur one meal at a time.  Suggesting that one choice determines whether or not one is a vegetarian/vegan rather than the overall trend or the individual's aspirations is a little essentializing.  It's like saying that nobody who ever took something that didn't belong to them can call him/herself a moral person ... or that somebody who chooses to break from the party line can't still identify with that party's ideology.  Words are just ways of talking about ideas.  They often mean many different things -- meaning, veganlady, that ALL words are open to interpretation.  red_oblivia, the definition you gave of "someone who eats no meat or fish" could mean something very broad, like "somebody who has never ever eaten any meat or fish whatsoever," or something very narrow, like "somebody who doesn't eat meat or fish generally at present or in the foreseeable future."  Whether or not one is "really" a vegetarian depends entirely on how you interpret that word.

So, to answer my own question, yes -- I am still a vegetarian.  This is because I consider vegetarianism to be an aspirational standard, not a black-or-white indictment of whether one eats meat at any given time.

I'm very interested in how other people use these terms to describe their own (and others') dietary choices.

I think that it's definately a topic that is and has been up for debate, obviously, haha :) I realize I will probably take some heat for saying this and I'm not making any judgements at all while I'm writing this, but just saying my personal opinion, which of course is not by any means the be all and end all of anything.

My interpretation of vegetarianism/veganism is that it is a lifestyle choice...of course it can change, you can be a vegetarian for one year, and then decide that it's not the lifestyle for you anymore, eat meat and seafood and become a non-vegetarian, and I wouldn't think anything different of that person for their choice. As for meal to meal, in my own personal definion, with no disrespect intended, I would not consider a person who occasionally eats meat a vegetarian at all. I would most certainly say in response to lysistrata that someone who very rarely eats meat follows a "predominately vegetarian diet" like you said, but the defination that I attach to the term "being a vegetarian/vegan" is pretty all or nothing to me...and one would most likely not have the intention of changing and becoming non-vegetarian. To me, it would be like someone saying they are a "non-practicing vegetarian/vegan" which is conflicting.

I understand that the reality of the matter is that people will define vegetarianism in their own terms, and I am not going to judge anyone or argue with anyone...just my thoughts :)

hmarcos, I think your perspective is valuable and I'm certainly not going to give you any "heat" about it!  ;-)  I think it's good to have an open discussion about what these words/ideas mean because they obviously do mean a lot to some people and are important parts of their identities.  I just hate to see somebody jumped on when they have a different understanding, particularly in a forum like this where we should be encouraging each other to develop healthy lifestyles.  I think it's way better to share ideas than to kick somebody out of the club, so to speak.

Thank you :) I'm just used to getting jumped on I guess, so I wanted to cover all bases and be as politically correct as humanly possible, haha...A lot of people disagree with me when they ask me my opinion on those that consider themselves vegetarian, but they eat white meat or seafood or something occasionally...and I say that I don't personally consider that vegetarianism

*applauds veganlady and hmarcos*

The dictionary would probably be of use at dispelling some mystery here.  Vegetarian = eats no flesh.  Vegan = eats nothing with animal origin.  Pretty simple if you think about it.

By the way, I'm straightedge except every once in a while I just can't resist smoking crack.

Everyone feel free to yell at me now.  I'm usually not this confrontational, but I'm working on 30 hours with no sleep and I just don't care anymore.  This stuff always pisses me off, I'm just not into social niceties at the moment.  Yay.

As a slightly different point of view...

I call myself vegan to friends and family just for the sake of convenience, because that means no animal products eaten to most people unfamiliar with the terms.  I know I'm not a 'real' vegan, because it is ONLY diet, and I still use cosmetics/cleansers/etc with animal products in them.  Is that really so offensive to those of you who eschew that other stuff, too??  The term 'culinary vegan' is a little cumbersome, don't you think?

I don't like to draw attention to my dietary choices, and tacking something like 'culinary' on the front of it invites a lot of questions...  the terms vegetarian and vegan are often used erroneously for the sake of convenience.

Thank you star1020 :) I understand how you feel, haha...I've had a long week too

I was reading this post about vegetarians wearing leather/fur and it seemed to relate to what you just said ellybell...I guess it depends on how far someone wants to take it...Everyone is different and therefore the definitions are different as well...Someone in that post I mentioned said that vegetarians wear leather and fur...I guess if we are talking solely about diet without any ethics or anything, though I really don't want to, I guess it's valid, but as mentioned in that post I would have to agree that it's highly hypocritical in my opinion...Veganism is a totally different story as I see it though, as for me it's a way of life and not just a diet...I guess the difference for me is the way it is used...Anyone can eat vegetarian/vegan food, but again, I think that being vegetarian/vegan takes on a completely different meaning, as in a lifestyle choice.

I usually don't like to even get into these conversations, as I'm very much into this lifestyle for myself, and am not to push my beliefs on others...but I think it's safe to say in this thread that I can state my opinion :)

"Left to my own, I haven't eaten meat or fish in years.  But on some social occasions I will eat meat because it is the only polite thing to do."  --- Apparently you can see some sort of sense in that statement, being that you wrote it, but to me, that statement is /completely/ nonsensical. To someone who does not eat meat because she feels it is murder and immoral, that is like saying, 'I usually don't eat people but I was at at a party where cannibalism was expected, so it was the only polite thing to do.' You say you ate animal carcasses to avoid offending someone, but doing something you don't believe in when subjected to the influence of others (for whatever reason you want to give it) is just a lack of integrity. If it is something you don't fully believe in or are committed to, that's a different matter. But then, you are not a vegetarian. The moral indications aside, (perhaps you are not even a self-proclamed veg because of morals - maybe it is just a health choice for you?): "Does that mean I'm not "really" a vegetarian?" ---Presumably, you have been since you ate the sea animals. Can you say you have been a vegetarian since before that? No. You can say you are a off-again on-again veg or you can say you are a veg since that time. "Is that different from the person who eats a predominantly vegetarian diet, but just can't resist the orange chicken at the chinese restaurant?" ---Nope. "My point is that dietary choices can be complicated and occur one meal at a time." ---My point is that just because you have a few meals here and there that are vegetarian, it doesn't make you one. Not until you abstain from eating animals FULLTIME, are you a vegetarian. If you decide from meal to meal whether or not you will eat meat, then how can you consider yourself a vegetarian? Once again, it is simple terminology. You can tweak the terms till all words loose their meaning, but there is no point to that (unless you are trying to absolve a guilty conscience).

Excuse me, oblivia, but I never said that I don't eat meat for moral reasons.  And I certainly don't consider myself obligated to explain my rationale to everybody who thinks they have the exclusive right to decide whether I am entitled to describe myself as "vegetarian."  I am aware of no dictionary that says you're only a vegetarian if you are morally opposed to eating animals; perhaps you can point me to it.  With all respect, the reason you didn?t understand my statement is because eating meat is something I prefer not to do, not something I consider a moral issue.

It must be nice to live in a world where language is unambiguous, morality is absolute, and choices are black and white.  Certainly it makes it easier to pass judgment on people who don?t live up to your standards.  Some people who espouse ?anti-cruelty? are obviously more interested in patting themselves on the back for being such moral people than in displaying basic kindness and empathy to fellow human beings.  Nobody is so perfect that their energy is better spent criticizing others than improving themselves.  But it seems that quite a few vegetarians/vegans would rather throw verbal stones at each other than actually build a community, which requires open-mindedness and compromise.  Your post illustrates this nicely.

So, oblivia, you clearly wanted to get a rise out of me.  Well, you got it.  I find it highly irritating to be lectured about my integrity, or perceived lack of it, by some self-appointed authority.  It is clear that we disagree about what it means to be vegetarian; you see it as a moral issue that can?t be compromised, and I see it as a dietary rule that can be occasionally broken . . . just like I can speed on occasion but still consider myself a law-abiding person.  I don?t expect you to accept my interpretation, but I do ask you to respect my right to have a different opinion.  The point in ?tweaking? the language, as you put it, is to explore the edges of its meaning in order to have a more thoughtful, considered understanding of both the term and the ideas it expresses.  I do this because I consider dogmatism to be a form of intellectual weakness.  Imputing some degraded motive to my perspective is just patronizing.