Vegetarian vs. Vegan

I am certain that this topic has been presented time and again, so  please forgive its repetitive nature. 

I am considering incorporating a vegetarian diet into my family's meals during the week (we will eat some meats on the weekends, at least at first).  First of all, what is the difference between a vegetarian and a vegan?  Secondly, what do you experienced vegetarians think about my "plan"?  I'd love to hear pros and cons while I am still in the planning phase.  My family is supportive (except one daughter), so I am open to suggestions.  Thanks!

When it comes to moralistic reasons I think being a vegetarian is something you are born as- such as being born gay. You are born with compassion for animals and other living beings, but perhaps you are raised in a family which eats meat, & so it takes you some time to bring out your "vegetarian/vegan" side- this is purely related to those who don't eat meat for moral reasons, either because of world hunger or because of animal cruelty or because they feel that animals are not food.

I have always been a vegetarian on the inside but have struggled to show my family as they are very closed-minded to it and I grew up in an authoritarian household. Because of that even now as an adult I still feel the need to please other people before myself. Now that I am on my own though I refuse to touch meat and I am learning to stand up for myself.

So in reality I think that the dictionaries definition of vegetarian/vegan is irrelevant in answering the question of "does eating meat occasionally make you a non-veg" because it focuses on the surface, but doesn't penetrate the real issues.

Hello!  Very interesting conversation so far.  Certainly a topic I've seen come up for discussion several times over the months here.

Just a reminder to all that if you are going to continue the particular line of discussion that this thread has taken, please be courteous to each other.  I know this is a heated topic within the veg*an community.  But please, comment on the ideology, not the individual posters, and please avoid inflammatory comments as per the posting guidelines.  Feel free to message me if you have questions!

I think its pretty clear-cut and simple.  A vegetarian is a person who doesn't eat meat.  You may have a desire or propensity toward doing this, or feel in your heart that it is the right thing to do, however, if you sometimes eat meat, then clearly you are not a vegetarian, although you may be 'mostly vegetarian', or 'lean toward' vegetarianism.  Although a person may feel that they are a vegetarian at heart, and that this is what they eventually will practice, they are not a vegetarian as long as they are eating meat.  This is because vegetarianism is a practice where no meat is eaten.  A person who practices vegetarianism eats no meat.  It could be for either moral reasons, or health reasons, or both.  In either case it is the physical practice of eating no meat that defines one as being a vegetarian, rather than ones emotional feelings about the practice.

There are grey areas here Im sorry.  I do consume eggs and milk, however I don't wear real leather and the thought of wearing fur disgusts me.  I don't agree with feed lots or the way many animals are treated, particularly when they are killed to make fur coats.  I am diligent in checking my toiletries to ensure they state they aren't tested on animals.  I also make a lot of my own soaps and such to avoid the same issues. I don't feel an animal needs to die to feed/clothe me but at the same time I feel better when I have some dairy in my diet. 

I eat vegetarian 99.9% of my life and I'm not going to let that bite here or there of chicken once in a blue moon or whatever cause me to have to go into a long speel about how I have "strong vegetarian and somewhat omnivorous tendencies with a hint of veganism" or whatever, that's just silly.  For simplicities sake I say I am vegetarian - and I do it for ethical and personal preference reasons.  Do I slip up now and then? of course, but like the one poster said does the fact that I occassionaly speed make me a "criminal" even though I am otherwise a law abiding citizen?  No one is perfect 100% of the time so I think we should resist judging others or making things so black/white, but that's just my opinion

I think there should be room here to respect everyone's vegetarian/vegan beliefs. 

christin, you don't need fur ... you're hot as heck in that red dress!  ;-)

It's not a religion, it's a diet (although there are some that take it beyond the consumption of foods...). No one has to do it by the book! Everyone is entitled to do what they feel is appropriate. I eat a vegan diet, but wear leather. Am I a vegan or a strict vegetarian? Why do we even have to try to define each?

In regards to the original post, there are many people that suggest transitioning slowly and that those who do it that way will stick to the new diet longer than just jumping into it. There are others who can just jump into and stick to it (I jumped into a vegan diet after fasting for 30 days).

This is probably the most extensive article I've ever seen on what vegetarianism is and the reasons why people choose it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

I suppose under these definitions I would be considered a "flexitarian" because I don't consider the occasional consumption of meat/gelatin/rennet/whatever to be unforgivable.  So maybe I'll call myself that in a forum of vegetarians who are stricter than me.  But I think calling myself that to people who don't understand or care about these distinctions would be counterproductive.  I can already hear the conversation:  "What does flexitarian mean?"  "Well, it means I'm generally vegetarian but on some occasions I'll eat meat."  "Great, then have some steak."  "Um, no thanks."  (Resulting offense taken.)  It's much easier to just say you're vegetarian so that people aren't constantly expecting you to make an exception.

lysistrata, I would agree that you are a flexitarian. I can see how it would be easier to tell non-vegetarians that you are vegetarian so that they don't expect you to make exceptions. By the same token, what bothers me is when people call themselves vegetarian, but then advertise to their non-vegetarian friends that they eat meat on occasion. The problem with this is that non-vegetarians will start expecting that the average vegetarian is going to be willing to eat meat once in awhile, or think that it is okay to sneak a little bit of animal products in on them (like maybe some chicken broth), and that they will never know the difference. Those of us who do fit the textbook definition of a vegetarian really want to be taken seriously, and don't want people to make these kinds of assumptions about us. We want it to have a serious meaning to people when we say we are vegetarian. I used to get a little scared in restaurants about not having my vegetarianism respected, and about ending up with something that was tainted by animal ingredients. Because of this problem, some vegetarians will say that they are seriously allergic, or that its doctors orders, because they think people will respect a dire health threat from eating the wrong food, faster than they will respect a person's simple wish to really choose to eat vegetarian.

Yes, that's a good point.  Generally I try not to discuss my eating habits except to explain why I'm turning something down ... so I'll do my best not to spread the confusion. 

FYI, there was a lawsuit in California in 2005 by a strict vegetarian against a restaurant that served her a "vegetarian" omelet containing sausage.  The court threw out her case because it said she wasn't harmed by accidentally eating the meat.  Is that infuriating or what?

cbullock - I do the thing with telling people I'm allergic too.  Either that or I'll state that "I have dietary restrictions for health reasons."  I have to use that one at my job, because sometimes I eat lunch with my clients, and we're not allowed to eat non-campus food in front of them.  I do it anyway because there are no vegan options on campus.

I think it's ridiculous about that lawsuit too.  What if the woman had been unable to consume sausage because of religious convictions?  Perhaps that would have been taken more seriously.  And yet, people refuse to accept that fact that us serious veg*ns are not doing it "as a phase" or to be "trendy" or "different," but because of convictions about animal rights and/or health issues that we hold as dear as religious convictions.  I was once accused by an ex of being vegan because I was "trying to be different from other people on purpose to get attention."  It's so very insulting.  My BF now had no idea what veganism entailed before we were together - it was some vague and weird concept to him - but after a year together he understands and moreover RESPECTS my choices.  He's actually defended me a couple of times when I found myself being insulted or interrogated by small-minded idiots about my lifestyle.

The really bad thing about the lawsuit is that the woman had TOLD them that she was allergic, couldn't eat meat for medical reasons, etc., and that she would order something else if they couldn't make it meat-free.  So, sadly, even lying might not be enough to get a restaurant to take you seriously.  It must be really hard for really strict veg*ns to trust anything you eat that isn't under your control. 

btw, I've tried to find an online copy of this case so y'all can be enraged at what a complete @$$ this judge was to the woman, but I can't find it anywhere outside of the commercial databases.  If any of y'all are curious and have access to Lexis (or lawyer friends/relatives who will do you a favor!), it's Popovitch v. Denny's, 2005 Cal. App. Unpub. LEXIS 7173.  Seriously, it's really bad ... the judges treated her like she was some hysterical fringe lunatic.  Unfortunately a lot of us probably know how that feels.

Is it possible for a Vegan to ever know what they are eating at a restaurant? You would only know for sure at an advertised Vegan restaurant, the butter would sneak into something. My in-laws are Vegetarian, and some friends are Vegan. We define ourselves by each meal, we have been known to be a Vegan family for the day, or an omnivore family for the day. If I have lots of guests with different eating habits, Vegan wins and that's what I serve. For my family, I serve 3 or 4 meals a week with no meat. I love to tell them what I am serving and what region of the world the food comes from. It is healthy for them to try new things, and know that you can have lots of great meals with no meat. So go ahead dkcreel, be Veggie for a day, be Vegan for a day! It's healthy and fun! Your family will thank you someday!

P.S.      Shame on Denny's, that from a meat eater. Their food is 

       &nb sp;     as bad a their service. 

       &nb sp;     

Whaoooo, much more than I needed to know but very interesting..... What I really want to know is does anyone know what the health implications are when going strict Vegan? The whole soy based diet is a big confusion to me. I would like to consider myself a strict veg, at least the last 7 months (after these discussion maybe not) for moral reasons but now I just feel better  (since starting a stric veg diet) so I guess now for health reasons. I read that too much soy can be harmful, very confusing and contreversial.  Has anyone done any research on the matter and if so what have you found?

Working in the Food and beverage / hospitality industry i get to meet many people saying they are vegetarian..

I always ask them what type of vegetarian my customers are, in order to get their food order perfect. I had to teach my cambodian staff about vegetarians and to ask the guest what they can and can not eat. It is difficult sometimes to understand, as many people i have met say they are vegetarian but eat eggs, chicken or fish.. at the end i just started seeing vegetarian as a some trend. You have Semi-vegetarian, Lacto-Ovo vegetarian, lacto vegetarian, ovo vegetarian etc.. which to people like myself at the beguinning was weird to understand.. and even more difficult to explain to my staff.

As for vegan, i don't even know what to think.. and in a way we haven't had a vegan guest here yet...as i wouldn't even know what to give this person to eat..

Sometimes vege, vegan all of it gets complicated to understand for people that do not practice it and probably do not understand why people would do it but i am sure that most of non vege / vegan would be interested to learn more about it.