Veg'ns in relationships with non veg'ns? (or vice versa)

I was going to ask if any of you other vegetarians/vegans are in a relationship or marriage with someone who is an omnivore (or the other way around) and if that's a challenge for you? Do you ever have difficulties when dining out or grocery shopping? Also, have you talked about how you would raise your children (if you plan to have them)?

I have a serious (and amazing) :) boyfriend of 3 years, I am very much vegan, and he is very much non-vegan. While we have an enormous amount of respect for eachother and are supportive of the others individual choices, our views on how any future children would raised differ. This isn't an immediate concern, as we aren't planning on having children for a long time, however it could very well become problematic in the future.

That's a question I hadn't thought about.  (Sorry for the novel about it.)

I would think whoever does the cooking has the final say on what the child eats.  It's pretty unfair to demand that the other parent cooks all vegan, or to demand that the vegan be forced to handle meat and animal products. 

That said, if there is meat available it is likely that the children will consume it at least some of the time.  Once the child is old enough to have the discussion, he/she should probably decide for him/herself.  That's assuming appropriate care is given to the child's nutrition if he/she is kept on a vegan diet - it's pretty hard to keep up with all the nutrients a small child needs on a vegan diet, I've heard.  Raising a kid is pretty hectic.  It might be in the child's best interest not to restrict his/her diet, especially if it's your first child, or be in very close touch with a nutritionist.  It's not like the non-vegan diet taints the child forever - he or she can always become vegan later is that is his/her choice.

One other concern I would have about bringing a child up vegan is that the child eats away from your supervision sometimes.  At school, at friends' houses, etc.  Often vegan-raised children become sick from eating meat/eggs/milk.  It might be better not to expose the child to that vulnerability, since he/she will almost certainly not be watching his/her intake closely and is likely to consume non-vegan items from sheer carelessness because Jimmy's mommy gave him/her mac and cheese.

I am not familiar enough with the difference between vegan and vegetarian to speak on this, but if breast feeding is removed from the equation then that can be dangerous for the child.  I'd really discuss this particular facet in detail with an OB/GYN before making any decision.

As for the other topics, I am recently vegetarian and I have had no trouble integrating it into eating out or cooking in.  I am a good cook though, my fiancee has continued to enjoy my meat-free cooking just about as well as my previously meated cooking.  I occasionally make him something with meat in it, when I can stomach handling the raw stuff, which I find incredibly repellent.  I am not missing that part of being omnivorous!  We eat out at places with vegetarian options, and he orders somethig non-vegetarian and I order somethig vegetarian, no big fuss.

i'm vegan and my husband is an on and off vegetarian (right now off), it's not really an issue with us because we make our own meals and grocery shop for ourselves since our schedules are so different. we do have dinner together every night usually, and when he's veggie we make vegan meals to have together, but when he's not, we make our own meals. he is not and has never been an ethical vegetarian, he just feels better veggie and disagrees with the human side of factory farming. the mistreatment of the worker's, the meat and dairy industry itself, etc.

when we have a child, they will be raised vegan. he agreed to this  out of respect for my beliefs. he's an easy going guy!

i don't usually think much of it when he goes back to eating meat, because i know it's always temporary with him. he'll start feeling lethargic and blehhhh and go back to ovo-lacto vege. (i admit that i did cry once when he decided spur of the moment to order a steak taco once when he had been veg for over a year's stretch, haha. i can be a little out of control sometimes.)

Thank you for the responses! They are very thought provoking and great...Exactly what I was looking for...

I am an ethical vegan, although the health perks are pretty great too, as long as you are paying attention to your nutrition (which I am very on top of, and am always doing research)...I would love to raise any future children that I have vegan...My boyfriend agrees with you ellybell that whoever happens to be cooking dinner for the child on any given night would pretty much determine what s/he would be having. I know that when my (future) child gets to be a certain age, I would certainly step back and let him or her decide on a diet of choice and would never force something upon them once s/he is old enough to make a thoughtful choice on his or her own...However, we disagree on what should take place in the meantime...

When it comes to things like school lunches, and birthday parties, and dinner at little Jimmy's house : ) ...I would make sure to be thoughtful in making them something as delicious as any meat dish out there (in my opinion :) I can cook pretty well I think...and also have in mind that I don't want my child to be ostracized or singled out for their "weird" food...There are many kid friendly things out there (though some not the healthiest choices) like soy hotdogs & burgers, salad, PB&J...even fake lunch meat...that would fit in with the mainstream...There is vegan friendly pizza, birthday cake, pretty much anything you can imagine, so I don't feel like my child would be missing out and would do my best to keep him or her healthy and happy...Veganlady it's so great that your husband is so supportive!

While I don't mind what my boyfriend eats, as I love him for who he is, not what he eats...Any child that we would have together, I feel a moral obligation (and don't see the harm in) raising him or her vegan until s/he is old enough to choose...It's just a conflict, because I also care very much about my boyfriends opinions and beliefs and want to respect those as well...

I would rather die than even kiss a non-vegan. I'd be drawn to bloodlust if someone tried to feed my child animal products (though i don't have children yet.)

That said, I would never have a partner that wasn't vegan.
I might date someone who wasn't, but I wouldn't take that relationship to even a hand-holding level without the other person becoming vegan first.

Haha, I like you robertlovescss...You've got spunk :)

I'm dating an omni and I've been vegan for almost 2 years.  We plan on marriage some day.  He's respectful of my beliefs...still learning to read labels (he accidentally fed me pasta sauce with cheese in it a couple times) and even stands up for me when people give me crap about it.

We haven't talked about the kid thing yet, but I have very strong beliefs on this subject.  We talked about it in passing once and he said "you wouldn't want to raise kids vegan would you?" and I said "yes I would."  We both let it drop.  It makes me nervous but I don't see a point in starting a fight about it now. 

Once we decide to have them, I'm sure I'll catch crap from his parents that I'm killing my baby or something when I maintain my veganism during pregnancy, although I'm sure he'll be supportive - he's already joked about how he's going to keep the freezer stocked with Soy Delicious ice cream for me.  I plan to breastfeed of course so that'll make it a non-issue until they're eating solid food.  BF already knows that I will refuse to have children at all unless I can quit my job or work from home so I can raise them myself.  I will not put my child in daycare, and I want to be there for all the special moments that happen every day as they grow up.  So that being said, I'd be doing the cooking and grocery shopping.  What he doesn't know is that I plan to raise the children vegan at home.  If this can't happen, then I will also refuse to have children.  (I'll be bringing this up before we get married as to not catalyze a divorce if it comes to that).  I want to have them be vegan at home, and I would also like relatives to respect the veganism of the children as well - I have to bring my own dishes to family gatherings anyway so it wouldn't be a big deal, and I think it would undermine my authority as mommy if grandmom and grandpop are shoving meatloaf down their throats.  When we go out to eat at restaurants or they are at friends homes I will just let it go.  Of course, we won't be eating out at any fast food places and I'll be sure to suggest healthy menu options even if those suggestions aren't taken.  When they're old enough (and it doesn't have to be that old; I think 7 or 8 is old enough - it'll probably come up as a question from the kids before then anyway) we'll talk about why mommy eats different food from daddy, what mommy's beliefs are, and why some foods are good for you and some aren't.  Then they get to start making their own small food choices, although I will still be cooking vegan food and packing vegan lunches at school, and there will be no fast food or "junk" food like soda or pop-tarts or whatever in the house (daddy is going to have to have a special stash somewhere that's just his).  If they ask why it's ok for daddy to eat things that are bad for him, it'll be the "well daddy is a grownup and can make those decisions, just like grownups can drive cars or drink beer and kids can't until they grow up."  It'll work out if we just take every thing as it comes.  I think kids are smarter than we give them credit for.

People say "well isn't that forcing your beleifs on your children?"  Parents do that every day.  It's the job of a parent to make decisions for their children.  If it wasn't we'd just dump the kids on the street as soon as they could walk and eat by themselves and tell them to get a damn job.  It's parents' responsibility to make choices that will allow their kids to grow up happy and healthy.  And besides, if you decide to start feeding your child meat or milk -isn't that making the decision to NOT raise him/her vegan?  Everything is a choice.

Haha, that was long...you can see I've put major amounts of thought and planning into this.  Bottom line - I couldn't put things that I consider poisons into the mouths of my children without breaking down and crying every day.  So I won't do it.  Period.

Wow, very well said star1020...sounds like you and I are on the exact same page...I just hope things work out when I get to that point :)

I didn't mean to come off as considering raising your kids vegan to be forcing any kind of belief down their throat, I'm sorry if I did.  :)  I also believe that every parent who does what they deem best at the time has done everything that can be expected, and I think it's great that this discussion has come up.

I only wanted to bring up the two major concerns with raising a child vegan, which are:

• The nutrition of the child can be compromised if you are not Very Careful.  I expect anyone who is coming and posting on a nutrition-savvy forum like this one to be the kind of person who is Very Careful, so probably this is not an issue.
• The child might become ill from eating non-vegan foods.  Packing special food for the child might not always be effective.  Let's face it, it's a kid - and sometimes (s)he'll be more likely to eat a piece of pizza at the birthday party than the PB&J sandwich you packed.  Also, the kid is going to catch SOME flak over having different food no matter how careful you are.  On the other hand, if it DOES make the child sick, (s)he is likely to only do it once!  And if it doesn't, then what's the big deal really?

Personally I think that if the child is old enough to ask why they are being given the kind of food that they eat, then they are old enough to decide for themselves what to eat.

OK, now it's ignorance time, please don't tear me up too bad, I genuinely want to know.  I admit to not being overly familiar with vegan principles.  Why is it that breast milk is okay, and cow milk is not?  If it wasn't commercial milk, for example (yeah, I'm a redneck, my uncle has a cow and I've drunk milk so fresh it was still warm from the cow's body).  I know for a fact, that cow lives a life of luxury.

I'm loving all this discussion! Thank you to all who have been posting...

Ellybell I'm not speaking for everyone of course, but the reason many vegans would find breast milk acceptable, and cow's milk unacceptable, is that many feel a mother's milk is made for her baby...A woman is feeding her baby what is natural for the baby to drink, something nature intended...While a cow's milk would is thought by many to be intended for it's babies as well, and not for humans.

I was married to a non-vegetarian and have for the most part raised my son vegetarian but I am recognizing his ability to make some of his own choices now. (he's 7).  I figure if I make meat the forbidden fruit so to speak it's more likely he'll rebel.  If I let him have it in moderation then he can decide for himself how he feels better.  Im blessed with a great kid who loves his fruits and vegetables and asks for them regularly, so Im not going to get too upset over him asking for a bit of chicken or fish here and there. 

As for my boyfriend he is not a vegetarian but he definitely respects me and my eating habits and he always expresses concern for me when we discuss places to eat out etc.  He will ask me straight away "do you think they have enough vegetarian choices?" ... very sweet of him :) I am so pleased that he respects my beliefs.  We also don't attempt to change each other because grownups who are mature can respect one anothers differences and still find a way to get along and enjoy the things they do have in common.  I must say though that a lot of my eating habits have rubbed off on him and he asks me about the nutrition in many foods and what he should be eating for this or that :) I think its great.  I've also been known to cook the occassional chicken dish for him just because I know he'll like it.  Food habits are so not worth distressing a perfectly good and healthy relationship :) With the past relationships I've had lol I'll take some food disagreements anyday.

Ellybell - actually I've been researching the whole "non-vegan foods making vegans sick" thing and I think it might be a fallacy.  Sure, when I discovered that my bf made the pasta with sauce that had small amounts of parmesan cheese in it, I felt ill.  But a big part of that might have been the psychological aspect.  A lot of the stuff I've been reading basically says that our digestive tracts are designed a certain way, and choosing not to eat a certain food is not going to drastically modify the way it operates.  And as a note (because I find this funny and others probably will too) I was researching that topic not because of the "what to feed children" thing, but because one of my BF's friends found out I was vegan and of course had to start some argument with me to waste his and my time and this is what he said: "What if there's like a zombie apacolypse and we all have to go out into the wilderness and live in caves and the only thing to eat is animals that we hunt.  Don't you think that being vegan is dangerous, because you wouldn't be able to digest the meat and you'd starve."  He was dead serious saying this.  I didn't know whether to laugh or punch him in the face.

And as far as kids catching flak for being "different" it's not something I'm concerned about.  If my little guy goes over to play at little Timmy's house and stays for dinner and Timmy's mom makes cheesburgers, and gives them ice cream for dessert, he's free to eat that and I have no problem with it.  I just won't be preparing those foods in my house.  Besides, I'm pretty sure my kids will be "different" in other aspects as well because of how they'll be raised so I'm sure they'll catch crap for other stuff too.  Besides, pretty much every kid catches crap for something at some point whether it's their diet or their glasses or their Walmart clothes.  Making the decision to eat or not eat meat at a friend's house or a restaurant or whether to buy a Snickers bar with his allowance money are decisions that I think a kid of a certain age can make.  But even then, you still have to make a majority of decisions for them.  Even the smartest 7 year old will eat cookies for breakfast lunch and dinner every day if left to his own devices.  I think full decision-making power starts when you get a job and can buy your own damn food.  It did for me.  I started buying some of my own food when I was 16 because I wanted more veggie options (I was ovo-lacto at that point) and by the time I was 20 (I lived at home/went to school until I was 24) I was buying all my own groceries entirely.  Before then, I had to deal with what was put in front of me because my parents were the ones in charge.

Star1020 - Fair enough.  I was basing my opinion that some vegans get sick from non-vegan food purely on anecdotal evidence, having watched a few friends get sick off restaurant stuff when no one knew it included non-vegan ingredients until they got sick and we asked.  That's why I tried to say 'may' a lot. :-)

I think some people just get sick from eating foods they're REALLY not used to.  I don't mean fall down drag out hospital visit sick, I just mean an upset tummy.  My sister eats a very low fat diet, and fatty foods make her ill as well.

It's true also that every kid catches flak for something.  I never really considered that a strong drawback, I was just responding to that aspect of hmarcos's earlier post.  This is a relatively harmless thing to catch flak for, and if it happens at any decent school their teacher will probably pull some good discussion out of it.  I don't recall who posted it, but one of the other vegetarians said their response to the 'why do you eat...' question was an 'it's my preference'.  That should work even for small kids.

Also I almost snortled my water over the zombie invasion comment.  You need to not post funny things while I'm drinking.  ;)

there was a post on here with a link to a short documentary about vegan parenting. it was really inspiring to see HEALTHY, HAPPY, VEGAN kids. you should watch it if you think a vegan diet is "lacking" anything for children.

I did see that little documentary, and it was really great! It made me feel good about my choices...

ellybell & star1020 I did once get served (accidentally) a "lentil" soup at a restaurant that they told me was vegan friendly...However, it looked exactly like another soup they had, that contained pulled pork...I took a bite and realized immediately that it was not vegan, and pushed it aside...I completely knew it was an accident, and didn't try to make myself throw up or anything, and I wasn't mentally flipping out over it, just chalked it up to life...but then I was violently ill for a few hours after that...

My only concern for me in the future is that while my boyfriend and I both respect eachother's feeling and beliefs, we still still choose to go our own way (me=vegan, him=not vegan)...and it works the other way too, he is straight edge and has never consumed a drink, and I like to have an occasional margarita...I'm very lucky and we get along amazingly well, and I have no complaints about the relationship...However, when it comes to a child in the distant future, haha, that we will share (if things continue on the path they are on)...and we both feel differently, ah, well I don't know...I guess I should just let things play out as they may

Veganlady -

Oh no, I didn't mean for my lack of enthusiasm for raising kids vegan to imply I thought there was something inherently wrong or lacking with the diet!  I think that a vegan lifestyle is very healthy, even for children!  All I was trying to say is that kids have a lot of need for a wide variety of nutrition, and that if you aren't careful with their nutrition then it's easy to exclude parts of it.  I never meant to imply that I thought vegan parents would exclude that nutrition - merely that it was easier for careless vegan parents to do so than careless nonvegan parents.  The only reason I am obsessing over this point is that a little carelessness goes a long way in a child, as it can have repercussions that the child feels for his rest of his/her life if there's any deficiency while (s)he is growing.

I'm about to make a sweeping generalization here - most vegans know at least something about nutrition and health.  That makes it more unlikely that vegan-raised children will suffer from nutritional deficiencies.  I guess what I'm trying to say is, if someone is going to raise their child vegan, they best make darn sure they're giving the child's diet the attention it needs.

I think a lot of children quite accidentally get mediocre nutrition when the effort that goes into food choices really deserves less.  I think that's due to a few foods, mostly foods that vegans eschew, like milk.  I am a big fan of milk products for kids.  It was custom made for providing nutrients for growth.  I don't think it's necessary for adults - assuming they get their calcium - but I think it's very good for kids.  That's based mostly on anecdotal experience.  Maybe it was just pounded into my head too hard by my grandmother.  ;)

Actually the vegan argument is that cow's milk is meant to be nourishing to baby cows (who will grow into animals weighing what...like a thousand pounds or something??) and isn't balanced for the human body or digestive system.  I know there's a lot of controversy about milk, and people standing strong on both sides - whether they believe that years of "drink your milk so you'll be strong" can't be wrong, or whether they believe that it's all a marketing scam meant to line the pockets of the factory farmed dairy industry.  I drank milk as a kid (a LOT of it actually - my family was big into the milk thing) and I grew up fine until I started having health issues in my early 20s.  Oddly enough though, if it came right down to it and someone held a gun to my head and told me I had to feed my kid either a steak or a glass of milk I'd probably choose the steak as being less physically harmful.  But anyway...

So where's this documentary we're talking about?  I really want to see this...

Here is the link to the documentary...

http://www.current.tv/studio/media/2683042

It can be found in the "Vegan Parenting" thread in the vegetarian section (where I had originally posted my question, but wasn't getting any responses), and was posted by xpreciousroyx...to give credit where it's due :)

Dont bring your child up vegan...thats just mean.

Teach your child about it, sure, but let the child decide. (Being a vegan will cause a lot of problems for a child growing up...unless you keep them locked in the house and they dont have friends).

I disagree wholeheartedly. Each to his/her own.

I have been a vegetarian for three years.  I'm Scandinavian while my husband is Hindu.  He never eats beef or anything prepared in beef for religious reasons.  That's non-negotiable.  He also never eats pork for his own reasons.  We both are non-drinkers.  So, when I started my path toward vegan living, it wasn't a totally alien idea.  We're both used to moving around in the world with special food needs.

I gave up meat for political reasons:  knowing how factory animals are treated, how we don't need meat nutritionally, etc.  I actually love meat.  I found, though, that my biggest love is in the sauces not the meat.

We have two sons.  We both tried out keeping them vegetarian, from the beginning.  They got exposed to meat at some point.  The older one (now 7 yrs) is mostly and prefers vegetarian but will occassionally have a little bit of meat.  He loves raw tofu, raw vegetables, etc.  The little one (now 5 yrs) is a carnivor.  He'll eat anything--raw tofu, raw veges, meat, running antelope, etc.

I am very familiar with all the different types of vege people: 

• vegetarian
• vegan
• Jain
• Muslim/Hindu/Jewish
• etc. 

So, vegetarianism is quite tame in my book.  Because of my Scandinavian food, I couldn't quite pull off "no eggs".  I can do everything else, but I couldn't eliminate "no eggs".

My complaint is not at all about raising kids vegan or vegetarian; nor is it about playdates/outings/etc; nor getting ourselves fed at events.  My complaint is that my husband stinks.  I can smell the meat on him.  I didn't know what the problem was for over a year.  The smell was VERY OFFENSIVE.  I was really having huge problems. 

Finally, I realized that the smell was new to our relationship and was around those days I knew he had had meat.  So, I now know it's the meat.  I let him know that his relations with his wife are seriously impaired after he's consumed meat.  He has cut back alot on meat but still eats occassionally.  I don't know that he fully realizes that relations with his wife decrease to zero after meat consumption, but slowly increase over time as he's away from meat.  We're still working on that part of it.