Victims of Thought- a LONG rant.

This is a long and opinionated rant. Please feel free to read & assess. I will not move this to my journal- I think the lounge is appropriate.

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You want a change in society?

It doesn't start with increased school security- that's just an enabler for us to keep raising children the way we have been.

Don't say MEDIA has nothing to do with it- it has everything to do with it.

We are lazy, preoccupied with power and money, self-absorbed and we have forgotten to teach our children values.

Society is Fu*ked up- and was it always this bad?

I imagine that in the 1800's BEFORE TV there wasn't mass murders at schools full of children, or am I mistaken?

I imagine that when parents actually cooked dinner for their children, taught them the value of hard work- and taught them that money doesn't equal everything times were a little bit nicer.

And- yes there was more racism back then, because they were ignorant.

Did we really need media as an aid to a less racist society? I don't think so. Abe Lincoln seemed to be doing fine without broadcasting through the air waves, of course he was shot - but he still made an impact regardless. And I believe that even if there had been no TV when Martin Luther King Jr was walking the Earth that he still would have been influential.

I believe as a result of a mass increase in technology there has been a decrease in human compassion, and in GENERAL people have become less human and more robotic.

Cho Seung-Hui moved here in 92- he was AMERICAN by theory. And, his nationality is really beside the point. What matters is that he was disturbed, and that his mental illness probably could have been prevented.

We either accept technology- both the positives and the negatives or we strive to create a society that is better for our children.

What kind of behavior is expected when we are broadcasting daily a WAR. Why would a person feel that they shouldn't go killing people they are mad at when the President of the US is having people killed daily because of his strong feelings? What about those lives lost because of his beliefs? No one is holding him accountable. Soldiers, civilians, CHILDREN killed, in my opinion that is just as awful as the V-Tech massacre.

I refer to all of them as "victims of thought" because they died as a result of one person acting on their thought. What seed planted these thoughts.

You decide.

Personally I take responsibility- I support cable by having a subscription in my home. I pay to see the violence. I pay to hear the one-sided stories. I pay to see the beautiful women who are anorexic thin. I pay to watch movie, after tv show after documentary, after commercial about how being RICH is better, and how technology can only aid in this. I pay for an Internet subscription, where people can become monitors and emotions can become detached.

And you wonder what is wrong with society?

Maybe I will join the Amish.

EXCELLENT!!! I wholeheartedly AGREE! Stuff such as this (your topic) gets me SO RILED I mostly have to just put it out of my mind (because of the sheer frustration of it). So you were my voice -- thanks for posting it! I sorta feel the same about the Amish, only I would love to throw OUT my TV, my computer, my phone and go live in the country somewhere IN PEACE (not w/the Amish))! You are SO RIGHT about GWB -- I saw a clip of him making his little speech and ALL I could think of is how he is doing the same thing in Iraq!

I do want to add that I believe there has ALWAYS been horrible happenings, even back in the 1800s. They were just different horrible happenings. (I don't mean that in a negitive-attiude sort of way -- like "everything is bad and doomed" but in a "there is good and there is bad" sort of way ... ). Back then you just didn't hear about it as much because you didn't have the media ... which by the way, YES, I DO blame the media for a lot of the problems too though.

If you can find the time (and have the interest) you should read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker. It was a little hard for me to get into it at first, but once I did it was great. It explains stuff such as this V-Tech situation and how the media labels people, etc. -- like how they're calling this guy a "disturbed loner" ... Very interesting.

Bleh, dont try dumping all the worlds problems on technology. Watching tv doesnt turn you into some kind of heartless zombie...

Teaching kids morals? ... you have an idealistic view of the past it seems. People are about as moral now as they have been.

Technology isnt causing problems with understanding morality... its just people are wayyy too horny and are having kids without consideration for actually taking responsibility for the kids growth.

I know a lot of people that simply should not be in charge of a child... its not uncommon.

The problem has always been there. People have always been murdered...there has always been crime... maybe without technology you would have been ignorant to it (it really is bliss), but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

From Eric Harris (of the Columbine Massacre's Suicide Note)

"By now, it's over. If you are reading this, my mission is complete.... Your children who have ridiculed me, who have chosen not to accept me, who have treated me like I am not worth their time are dead. THEY ARE F--KING DEAD...."

"Surely you will try to blame it on the clothes I wear, the music I listen to, or the way I choose to present myself, but no. Do not hide behind my choices. You need to face the fact that this comes as a result of YOUR CHOICES."

"Parents and teachers, you f--ked up. You have taught these kids to not accept what is different. YOU ARE IN THE WRONG. I have taken their lives and my own -- but it was your doing. Teachers, parents, LET THIS MASSACRE BE ON YOUR SHOULDERS UNTIL THE DAY YOU DIE." 4,5

Personally, I think that every time a tragedy likes this happened, we get hung on side issues.. Gun Control, Violent Music, Violent Video Games.

None of this is the real issue. They have violent music in Europe and Canada. They see the same movies we do, and many of the same shows.

I think the real problem, the real issues, are far scarier, and no one wants to touch it with a 10-foot poll. Our Society works harder and longer hours, families are dissolving, children are being raised by the television instead of their families and no one, not the school or the community, is doing anything about the issues of bullying.

The best environment for a child is a family. It doesn't have to be a perfect family (though I agree with LorikLorik that some people should not be raising children), but it does WONDERS for a child's ability to grow up to be "normal" (meaning able to deal with modern life as it is without grabbing a gun and shooting someone.).

For myself, I watch violent television, I watch the news, I listen to violent music and not once, ever, have I truly considered taking a gun and shooting someone. So, how can this terrible violent "media" work on people like Cho Seung-hui (and let's be honest, do we know WHAT kind of music or video games or tv were a part of his life?), but not me? What's the difference?

EDIT: I also want to point out that I know how to fire a shotgun. Aim's not super-wonderful, but I can point and shoot. Does this makes me a mass-murderer?

When they finally find out about Cho Seung-hui and what his issues were.. you can be sure it's not going to be just because he listened to a certain kind of music, watched a certain kind of program. It's because that man was deeply disturbed, and probably had a beef with the school, possibly the engineering school. But, like in Columbine, everyone will blame the side issues, and get caught up once again in gun control and violent media.

perfectly said h!!

I also listen to violent music, watch gory violent films, etc etc....but i havent committed a horrible masacre....i have a good job, etc etc

and yes i was teased as a kid..badly.....hell even through college..and THAT still affects me today...not the music or the movies or the TV but the stuckup immature f*ckers who constantly harassed me for whatever...and the teachers who never did anything about it.

oh and I can fire a gun too :D but my fingers are too short to do it right :D

I agree H

When our society finally realizes that there has to be punishment for actions other then a little jail time maybe people will think before they do stupid heartless things.  Our children are being raised with the "oh that's ok honey" attitude.  They are not taught right from wrong and that every action has an eaqual reaction. The justice system is so screwed up!!!

Resbonsibility is also another large issue with kids.  So many are left to basiclly raise themselves. I have seen it at my job and in my nehborhood.  How come mom or dad are mowing the lawn when the kids are in the pool or hanging out with friends. If the whole family worked together it would get done faster and the whole family could enjoy some down time, maybe even together as a family teaching kids morals, values and standards.  It is not the job of the school system and teachers to raise children, it is the job of parents.

Sorry if you don't agree, but I was raised in a small farming town and that is just the way it was.  Remember the only rules we need to live by are the 10 God gave us.

brokentink, I totally agree with you. The fact that the media broadcasted the killing in such details has already triggered a high school student in the States to announce that he's going to kill his teachers and classmates (according to this morning's news).

And I do take responsibilities too even tho I'm a Canadian.

It's not technology eh?

With the increase of technology there is a change in family structure-

I don't need to give evidence because all you have to do is look around you and you should see all the proof you need.

We are Zombies.

Those who choose to not see that the increase in technology has caused a decrease in morals/families etc are only blind.

Sure there were problems before- there always was and always will be- I never said there wasn't any. Did any of you happen to hear about a school full of children being shot up(by another student) in the Victorian Era? I only compare to them as they are the closest to now.

The point being not that technology is all bad- but its an ENABLER. It enables families to spend less time together, to become less connected, to shove their children in front of TV's or movies, to NOT teach morals/right from wrong/ etc because they will learn it from 7th Heaven.. or Full House or.. The Cosby Show..

And in return children grow up feeling detached from their parents, & society.

blame the parents, bullies, and uncaring teachers...not the TV that is optional to watch...or the video games, music, movies, etc

parents have the power...stop being the friend and be the parent to the child...

its not the TVs fault that the parent is just too lazy to deal with their child...the TV also didnt foster a mental illness in whoever goes crazy and kills people

sure maybe a school didnt get shot up in the victorian era, but im sure there were just as violent crimes going on then

but yeah i agree the media needs to tone it down....

edit: and full house had some good moral stories :-P damnit :-P teehee

Exactly-

Technology enables parents to be lazy. That is exactly my point..

I don't think the problem is technology. I think we can move back to a position where parents are better parents, despite new technologies. Just like we're moving, slowly, back to a position of eating better and finding out what our bodies need, despite "Science" like HFCS.

Technology does not have to equal bad parenting. The two are not, I think, mutually inclusive.

exactly my point H

parents are lazy...once again..its not the TVs fault....tell THEM to get off their lazy asses and take their kids to the park or something...not blame the TV folks for what theyre doing...its not their fault that some parents dont have the responsibilty to be actual parents.

if it there wasnt tv/technology...thered be somewhere else to place the blame where it doesnt belong....

The parents again and again...

Come on: this person was INSANE. It is not a matter of upbringing or education, he was VERY ILL, he was not a normal person! You can say that TV or lazy parents spoil children, but who on earth knows what has what effects on a LUNATIC???

As for the Victorians: think about the difference in weapon technology and the number of persons at a university campus, and you'll get the answer why there were no massacres back then.

As for those strict moral parents in Victorian times: factory workers' and labourers' countless kids were in a far worse situation, with absolutely no education and a 14 hours working day. And yes, many of them murdered, and many of them were caught and hanged. Is it better? Bullying at public schools and on the street was common, just as common as today.

The "good old times" never really existed. When there was no TV, there was something else. Because humans just will screw it up in any way they can.

To be fair, we know very little about the shooter's parents, and even if we did, mental illness is more complicated than just a question of "nurture."  My brother-in-law has tuberous sclerosis, a genetic condition, and often can't control his behavior.  If he were to hurt somebody, it wouldn't be the fault of technology, society, or bad parenting ... it would be one of those things that unfortunately just happens sometimes because we are all wired a little differently.

I've never really understood the need to explain away a tragic event.  Every one of us is going to die someday ... who do we blame for that?  I think it's much healthier to acknowledge that tragedy happens, grieve over it, and move on. 

i heard the gunman's father committed suicide... i dunno if it's verified yet...

everyone had good points. they put me in this pensive state...

so in other words, brokentink . . .

"if the unheard-of action of today's youth are allowed to continue, we are doomed" ?

I'd agree with you but tat quote was written around 100 BC in the city of Ur in Sumeria.

You can't blame media for human violence.  You can only blame it, at most, for the form that human violence takes today.  And no, Victorian schools getting shot up.  On the other hand, today you don't hear about people getting hung or guillotined in public and having it be fun, family spectacle.

We cannot continue to blame the media or technology, the breakdown of individual and family morals or the ignorance in society that enables some individuals to dislike "difference, loners, trench coats, mental disease or race .....The blame lies in the individuals choices and thoughts, who can say what they were thinking? The media shows and tells us what we want to hear. Our local media did a segment on the Good in society but there was not enough interest and it was discontinued.I choose not to watch much TV because it is too negative for me.NO it does not make the bad go away or the reality of yesterdays tragedy less real or less sad. I choose the level of technology I want to use and I live with my choices. If we as a society choose to re-post the suicide note that the columbine murderer wrote, what are we doing ? maybe giving a individual a tool to use that makes it OK to blame the ignorance in society and kill for it. Do we as a society continue to blame media, technology or our nations youth if we do we allow and empower negative ways and end up with a government that restricts us in all areas of our lives.      &nb sp;          

There is more Good in this world than Evil. I am not some bible thumper or misinformed person I have seen both sides touch my world, my family. Darrell Scott was asked to speak in front of congress in regards to the Columbine killings, he was the father of a girl that was killed and sons that watched their friends die that day. I do not think they were prepared to hear what he said.I will not post it, but ask you to look it up on the net and if so inclined read it. an maybe Please can We as a society can try to see the Good also?

Definitely look it up, but check Snopes first.  Right, HK? 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/scott. asp

OK, I stand corrected, A father of a random act of violence did not speak in front of the congress, but rather in a room with very few to hear what he had to say. I looked at the actual line up of speakers that Snopes  present that day, how sad, that he was not there to give his opinions

Everyone has thought of killing another person.  I myself have thought of killing many people.  Somehow that last guy crossed that line into actually doing it.  We all have it in us, we just need the right stimulus to bring it out......

On a less serious note, I think if anyone wants to kill many people, they should head up to Ottawa or Washington and blast away.  Then there would be some sensible killings!!!!!  I would vote for that person!!!!!!!

Well if technology doesn't enable laziness..

Then why are we all fat?