Virginity

Ok, so I have a new friend who wants to stay a virgin til she gets marrie,d but she thinks it's ok if she and her boyfriend have anal sex... just as long as it's not the other kind. Then she looked down her nose at one of our mutual friends who just had "traditional" sex.  I think its ridiculous of her to have such an attitude. PLUS, she says she is still a virgin, and she said that she thinks gay men who are never with a woman are virgins too!  I find this ridiculous, especially the way shes looking down her nose at someone else.  I'm glad she feels so superiror since she's still a "virgin". Hopefulyl she won't ask me too many questions about what i've done!! 

ETA: So do you thinks shes still a virgin or do you think she's just lying to herself?

She is lying to herself.

She may be a vaginal virgin, but she is by no means pure as snow.

:\ Hypocritical of her to look down her nose at your frined.

Different strokes for different folks, but I'd rather be an anal virgin than a vaginal virgin.  Just sayin'.

Original Post by alison_87:

Ok, so I have a new friend who wants to stay a virgin til she gets marrie,d but she thinks it's ok if she and her boyfriend have anal sex... just as long as it's not the other kind. Then she looked down her nose at one of our mutual friends who just had "traditional" sex.  I think its ridiculous of her to have such an attitude. PLUS, she says she is still a virgin, and she said that she thinks gay men who are never with a woman are virgins too!  I find this ridiculous, especially the way shes looking down her nose at someone else.  I'm glad she feels so superiror since she's still a "virgin". Hopefulyl she won't ask me too many questions about what i've done!! 

 

ETA: So do you thinks shes still a virgin or do you think she's just lying to herself?

lol, they dont call it anal SEX for nothing...

I've heard of this before and I just don't get it! So you have anal sex just so you can still be considered a "virgin"? I have trouble comprehending this. 

Yes you're a "vaginal virgin," but you're not a virgin! That's stupid. 

In my opinion your friend is lying to herself.

see? this is a prime example of how the label "virgin" keeps people from moving on with their sexuality. She is so caught up in the magic built up around the term...that she creates so much drama for herself and invents loopholes in her mind so that she can explore sexuality to some degree without shattering her fragile "virgin" label.

Its a barrier... so clearly in this case.

well, I don't think it's that much of a barrier--she just went straight for the back door instead!  Most people work up to that or don't want to try it at all.  She's just lying to herself.

I think she's just really into butt fu**ing

No, she's not a virgin, and yes, she's lying to herself.  She is making an age old assumption that sexual activity is only important if there is a chance of conception.

And she's a bit of a hypocrite - it appears she's more interested in flaunting the label than emulating the behavior it actually suggests.

Sounds like she's a good catholic girl who is taking the 'backdoor escape'. So long as penetration doesn't involve the all powerful vajayjay, you're good to go for a white wedding and the church will love you long time.

Personally, I think virginity is overrated but by church dogma she still is, technically, a virgin... so the hypocrisy extends only as far as her adherence to that dogma. If she's a true believer, then she's being honest by her moral code (leaving aside the much larger discussion of whether or not the sanctioned dogma is hypocritical or not).

If she's cynically using the backdoor escape to get her jollies while sticking to the letter of the law, or non-religious, then hypocrisy level is high and she's deluding herself.

Cath-o-lic gir-r-rls... (with their tiny little moustache!)
Cath-o-lic gir-r-rls... (do you know how they go?)

Heh, Dan Savage of the Savage Love sex advice column just coined a new term for this last week: "saddlebacking". Read the column where he explains it here and he even set up a website with the definition here.

And no, she wouldn't count as a virgin in my books either. It's sad that this retro behaviour is making a comeback (though from what I understand it was oral in the 50s, not anal). I blame the abstinence movement.

I'm just curious, how old is this friend of yours?

I don't think virginity means a thing when considering one's purity or reputation. Say we have girl A and girl B. Girl A is not a virgin, but she only has one sexual partner that she deeplycares about. Girl B is still a "virgin" but hands out blow jobs like there's no tomorrow and gets more presents in the doggy door than Paris Hilton's chihuahua.

Now... which girl seems more pure?

Original Post by muttlover:

Now... which girl seems more pure?

 I think thats the real problem...

Is sex dirty? Is it still a taboo? Is it something negative?

Original Post by purespark:

Different strokes for different folks, but I'd rather be an anal virgin than a vaginal virgin.  Just sayin'.

I would have to agree.....

Yeah, she is definitely lying to herself.

hatamoto, speaking as a Catholic girl your logic doesn't really hold true for what we believe and are taught. Catholicism frowns on anal sex much more than regular sex even if it's out of wedlock (ie anal sex is NEVER allowed under ANY circumstances, married or not - whereas sex is something always seen as joyful but it must be within confines of matrimony). So why would an unmarried Catholic have anal sex just to avoid the guilt of the other act when it's actually a bigger sin? :\

Original Post by loriklorik:

Original Post by muttlover:

Now... which girl seems more pure?

 I think thats the real problem...

Is sex dirty? Is it still a taboo? Is it something negative?

 I don't believe sex is dirty. What you and your partner do behind closed doors is none of my business. When people cheat or do not protect themselves, then I define their actions, not necessarily the sex, as dirty or negative.

Original Post by nycgirl:

hatamoto, speaking as a Catholic girl your logic doesn't really hold true for what we believe and are taught. Catholicism frowns on anal sex much more than regular sex even if it's out of wedlock (ie anal sex is NEVER allowed under ANY circumstances, married or not - whereas sex is something always seen as joyful but it must be within confines of matrimony). So why would an unmarried Catholic have anal sex just to avoid the guilt of the other act when it's actually a bigger sin?

nycgirl, I thought "sodomy" was two men having sex, not necessarily heterosexual anal sex? I am not a catholic so I don't know these things.

Original Post by muttlover:

Original Post by loriklorik:

Original Post by muttlover:

Now... which girl seems more pure?

 I think thats the real problem...

Is sex dirty? Is it still a taboo? Is it something negative?

 I don't believe sex is dirty. What you and your partner do behind closed doors is none of my business. When people cheat or do not protect themselves, then I define their actions, not necessarily the sex, as dirty or negative.

 so where does "pure" come in? i would say non protection and things like that is stupid...but not dirty / unpure / whatever.

Original Post by loriklorik:

Original Post by muttlover:

Now... which girl seems more pure?

 I think thats the real problem...

Is sex dirty? Is it still a taboo? Is it something negative?

Well, it's still viewed as dirty, negative and/or taboo by a significant chunk of the population. Especially when done by women, the double standard is still heavily in play. Obviously I don't agree with that.  "Purity" and "reputation" meaning reputation about your so-called "purity" (not a reputation as a liar or a thief or a psycho or whatever) should not be factors in someone's perceived worth in the 21st century, but they are. Sadly.

I don't fall for it though, and I'm glad that you seem not to as well.

Original Post by loriklorik:

Original Post by muttlover:

Original Post by loriklorik:

Original Post by muttlover:

Now... which girl seems more pure?

 I think thats the real problem...

Is sex dirty? Is it still a taboo? Is it something negative?

 I don't believe sex is dirty. What you and your partner do behind closed doors is none of my business. When people cheat or do not protect themselves, then I define their actions, not necessarily the sex, as dirty or negative.

 so where does "pure" come in? i would say non protection and things like that is stupid...but not dirty / unpure / whatever.

I think muttlover meant that you can judge those behaviours negatively, as opposed to just having sex which is not negative.

Original Post by trustwomen:

nycgirl, I thought "sodomy" was two men having sex, not necessarily heterosexual anal sex? I am not a catholic so I don't know these things.

Eesh, I don't intend to take this thread off-topic or go into this much detail as I think some things are better left unsaid in such a public forum (ie, kids) but basically any sex act that cannot result in the potential for procreation is sinful. However, I am now thinking that I suppose as long as it doesn't go to completion it might be ok in the confines of marriage and as part of foreplay in regular sex ... not sure though actually as it seems extreme ... eesh.