Welcome to the Group

Welcome! We would love get to know you, so please tell us a little bit about yourself. You can choose any format you'd like, but most of us here share some or all of the following details:

1. History with weight loss:
2. History with Calorie Count:
3. Reason for joining this group:
4. Some interesting details about yourself, such as your job, your family, your pets and your interests:

And now just go ahead and make that first post!

Hi!  My name is Tina and I am 40 and from the UK. I have been using Calorie Count since 13 Jan 2008 and have lost 61lb so far but would like to lose another 58lb to reach the top end of healthy BMI range.  I have struggled with my weight since my teenage years and have lost and gained weight continuously.  I have known I had PCO since I was about 18 as I never really started my periods properly and I had surgery to check everything out. Despite the PCOS and after lengthy assistance (chlomid then injections), I have 2 wonderful daughters who are now 9 and 7. 

I decided to join the group to see if anyone has any advice or experience on the type of diet that PCOS sufferers should be following.  At the moment I am simply following a balanced diet and I wondered if there might be a better diet to follow?

Another question which crossed my mind is whether anyone else is taking any medication for PCOS.  In the past doctors have said that I could go on the pill to regulate my periods but have given no other reason for doing so.  Just lately, when I seemed to have the longest period ever (5 months-but I guess I had a lot of catching up to do!) I went to get checked out again and was told that I should be taking something to ensure that I have a bleed about every 3 months as a thick womb lining can cause cancer!! Is this a recent discovery or have I just been let down by the medical profession?

I would love to receive any advice that you have about the above and would happily answer any questions you may have. 

Thank you for reading my introduction!

Hi my name is Tiffany and I actually joined yesterday and made this group today.

I too was told that I need to decide to keep trying to have kids and use clomid ... (which I did for months .. didn't work for me) or to stop and go on birth control to keep myself regular or you have a increase chance of cancer.

I was told this last month. I am learning and growing and trying to find out more about this.

I was placed on metformin  I was on it only a short time.  My sister who also has PCOS has been on metformin for over a year. We have different doctors and they do approach things differently.

The diet they told me was to eat a well balanced diet and plenty of exercise and lots of water. I am trying to do that now. lol

I know this does not answer many questions but I am hoping with growth in the group we will find out more to help each other.

Hi Tiffany!

Sorry that clomid hasn't worked for you.  It didn't work for me either - infact it made things worse and I had to take more drugs to stop bleeding!  It was the next step that worked for me - daily injections in my legs and some sort of drug I had to sniff (can't remember the names because it is a while ago).  I only had one low dose cycle of treatment initially (10 injections) and became pregnant straight away.  It wasn't quite as easy the 2nd time around - I had about 60 injections and 3 cycles of increasing doses.  I reacted to the drugs and could barely walk after the 3 cycles but it was definately worth it although enough to put me off trying again.

What is metformin for? Is it a birth control pill? It is strange that you mentioned your sister has PCOS too.  I have two sisters and they both have PCOS.  I have read that it does run in families and is passed down on the male side which seems rather strange!

I think this was an excellent idea for a group! Well done for setting it up and I hope you get lots more people joining in with it.

Tina

it is actually a diabetic medication. I just looked this up.

Metformin appears to work in three ways. First, it decreases the absorption of dietary carbohydrates through the intestines.

Second, it reduces the production of glucose by the liver.(2) The liver uses the raw material in your food to create a reserve supply of blood sugar. When your body experiences stress, the liver releases the reserve glucose to supply your brain and muscles with an immediate source of energy to cope with the stress. Glucophage suppresses the production of this reserve fuel.

Third, and perhaps most importantly, metformin increases the sensitivity of muscle cells to insulin.(2) Insulin is the hormone that delivers glucose into your cells to be burned as fuel, or stored. Women with PCOS frequently have "insulin resistance", a condition where excessive amounts of insulin are required in order to get blood glucose moved into cells, where it belongs. Glucophage helps your body to transport glucose with relatively less insulin, thus lowering your insulin levels. Chronically high levels of either glucose or insulin in your blood contributes to obesity, heart disease, infertility, and certain cancers, as well as the development of diabetes

 

wow .. did you insurance cover any of the cost of the shots?

tiffany

Hey there! I had heard of metformin being used for the treatment of endo, but did not know that it was also used for PCO. I have been diagnosed with both endo and PCO. I was put onto a needle called depo prevera (not sure of spelling) which is meant to be administered every 12 weeks, but due to my med condition and constant break through bleeding, i have to have it every 7-8 weeks. Which sicks a little cause i have a needle in my bottom every few weeks for the last 4 years. Unfortunately aldo the Depo needle can cause weight gain each dose and can cause osteoperosis later on in life. So anyone with any diet programs which can help with alternative diet programs for this would be GREAT!

Thanks for explaining about metformin.  I have never been offered it by the doctor. I know that my blood sugar is OK so that is probably why.  Diabetes is definately something that worries me because of the known link with PCOS and one of the reasons I decided that I had to lose some weight.  Does anyone else suffer with gout?  I don't have it at the moment but I do have high levels of the acid that causes it - apparently heriditary.  My sister suffers from it and has found that the diets you are meant to follow for PCOS and gout conflict!

I must admit that I have been reluctant to take any medication because of any possible side effects and because it seems to me that very little is really known about PCOS. It all seems a bit experimental at the moment and they are only just finding out about the possible long term effects of the drugs - like osteoperosis.

Fortunately in the UK we have the NHS so all my treatment was free.  I think if I had had to go much further with treatment like IVF I would have been entitled to one or two cycles free but then had to pay.  It makes you appreciate the NHS for sure!

 

Hi all I just joined this group.  I have used calorie count on and off for about 3 years.  I was very successful three years ago, but then I started dating this wonderful man and as my cousin calls it i have become 'fat and happy.'  I'm actually not all that overweight, just trying to lose about 10 lbs to get back to where I was when we met.  I'm young, only 25, so i'm not sure if I'll have the fertility problems, but I have been trying to lose weight since Jan and have been less successful than in the past.  Anyway, I was diagnosed with PCOS at 18, but didn't really do anything about it until 21.  I am on birth control and spironolactone which I lovingly call the 'miracle drug.'  I have never been too overweight and most docs say "you don't look like you have PCOS" but my biggest problem was the HAIR!!! Hair everywhere!!!  It was so embarrassing when I was younger,  I had to shave twice a day if I wanted my legs to be smooth for a date at night.  Anyway, now that I've been on spironolactone my skin is gorgeous and i shave maybe one a week!  It doesn't do much for the weight that I've noticed, although I did have my gall bladder out two summers ago which may make it more difficult for me to lose weight.

Anyway, I wanted to join the group to see if you guys have had difficulty losing weight.  I have been doing research on the insulin resistance and have found that a diet low in 'bready' carbs should work best because our bodies are inefficient with our insulin.  This should also reduce the risk of diabetes.  I also read that diets similar to the "Zone" diet are supposed to be great for insulin resistance.  Basically if you are going to have carbs, it needs to be low glycemic index (fruits, veggies and some breads like pumpernickel).  I have been severly cutting down on my carbs for a bout a week, so i'll let you know how it goes. Has anyone else tried this?  This is particularly hard for me to do because I LOVE FOOD and particularly ITALIAN.  Yummy garlic bread and a delicious bowl of alfredo.  Also, pizza is the one food that I would rather die than give up, so learning to 'portion' with that has been difficult. 

I mentioned before that I am young, it sounds like some or all of you are moms, so I don't envy you needing to cook for a family and try to lose weight.  I find it hard enough with my boyfriend who loses 10lbs everytime I try to start a diet!  More about me, I am currently working and going to school at night to try and get into medical school in two years.  I'd like to be a reproductive endocrinologist so that I can help PCO women get pregnant!

Anyway, any advice you can give would be great.  Also...has anyone had trouble getting insurance?  I tried to apply for individual health insurance because I quit my full time job for a part-time one and I was denied health insurance (twice!) because of PCOS!!  I'm on Cobra for now but need to find someone that will cover me on a more permanent basis.

Signing off for now.

Michelle

Hi Michelle!

Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.  It has given me the incentive to look at my diet a bit more closely.  Although I have done well upto now I know from previous experience that I do lose more weight when eating less carbohydrates.  I went onto Amazon and have ordered a couple of books that explain about PCOS and what diet to follow so am now waiting eagerly for them to arrive!

I tried to get some life insurance a couple of years ago and was surprised when they increased my premium because of my PCOS. It wasn't a huge increase but enough for me to go see my doctor who told me it was just a way for insurance companies to get more money! She told me there was no evidence to suggest we would live shorter lives etc. although the evidence does suggest we may have more medical problems.  I have health insurance via my employers but it is not the same in the UK because of the NHS. Sorry I can't help!

 

Hi I am Liz and 22.  I just started CC last week and my doc just said last Wend that she is sure I have PCOS.  Waiting until Monday for the hormon tests to get back.  Have struggled for years with weight and the embarasing facial hair.  I am obese and hoping to finally get to a resonable size and bring down my blood pressure. I am currently taking a semester break from college, wanting to get a degree in social work, work full time at a college, live alone in my own apartment, and have a 10 year old cat named Samantha. The doc put me on this PCOS diet, no carbs, no sugars, including fruit, and the food options I have limit one page for 2 weeks.  I would do almost anything for my favorite take out, though.  Did any of you go through this diet?  I am taking Pogesterone, and then going to start Yaz.

 

 

 

Hi - I'm Gen & I was diagnosed with PCOS at least four years ago.  I am 28 and a student (school is not great for losing weight - I like to snack when I am writing papers and find that sweet and salty snacks make for the best papers ).

A few years back I tried Weight Watchers with great success, but am definitely noticing that it is harder to lose the weight now.

I've been taking Metformin for a few months now and I seem to have an easier time keeping the weight off without so much effort.  I am hoping with CC and the exercise program I've signed up for I can lose some weight for my wedding next spring.

I am just looking for some support and company on the weight loss journey & I have felt misunderstood by people without PCOS in my life because they don't understand that it can be increadibly hard to take weight off with PCOS.

Glad to be here.

Hello, I was diagnosed with PCOS and Endometreosis(sp?) when I was 15 years old, but I had had it since I was 12 and because of this I have embarassing hair (plucking, waxing, shaving has never been so tedious :P) and dark skin patches...and of course, weight gain (I'm obese). I was put on many different types of birth controls, only to have them not work (for Endo pain) after awhile. While I was living in the UK (god bless NHS), the nurse there put me on the depo shot. She said I would probably not have my period (my periods were soooo bad and so painful -- Endo stuff) but I could only remain on it for 2-3 years because it weakens the density of my bones, which are 'regenerated' after being off the depo shot for some time. My fear is my period coming back and the pain when/if I go to a new pill.  I am completely infertile simply because I had endo and pcos for too many years before it was diagnosed and my ovaries look like massive tumors (in an ultrasound picture). The nurse who saw it was actually shocked. I don't mind being infertile because I always said I wanted to adopt because there are children who are already on this planet who need a mom/dad instead of me making a new one. So I guess mother nature took it upon herself to ensure I do just that, lol. :)

Unfortunately with the depo shot, and many other birth control pills/forms, they do have a side effect of increased appetite which causes the weight gain we all hate/fear. I was told many years ago (doctors have been trying to make me lose weight for a long time...took a toll on my self esteem >.<) that if you eat what you're supposed to (in this case your calorie allowance) you will not gain weight, but you may feel hungry/munchy. This is so true. Since I've turned vegetarian however I have not been hungry/munchy, I don't know if this is a mind-over-matter thing or something in all those extra greens and no meat doing something good...either way, I won't jinx it! lol. :)

I had no idea pcos and endo were so common. I thought I was unlucky to have some strange 'diseases' that others didn't have. It is very comforting and albeit sad, that I'm not alone.

I was also told to stay away from sugars because of glucose intolarance (reason for the awesome dark skin over my chest, neck, underarms).

I joined CC april 20th 2008 and so far I've lost 26 pounds. I did fall of the wagon sorta... I have an addiction to salt. I love it. And I was over using it and not losing any weight for weeks (plateauing maybe?) and as soon as I stopped using it completely and continued drinking water, 3 pounds fell off. :D And it seems to continue that way...so no salt unless it's my cheat meal (1 meal every 20 pounds lost :)).

Sorry if I went off topic anywhere... I do tend to rattle on and on...

As for the weight loss, we can all do it, we'll show our ovaries who's boss! lmao :)

Hi All!

I thought I would let you know how I am getting on with the low GI diet.  I read both the books I ordered from cover to cover and started implementing the new regime last Saturday, after our weekly shop.  I am finding that the calories are tending to be higher so I am having to reduce the 'rubbish' snacks I was having (low cal crisps mainly!) but I am not as hungry so don't need them really.  The books reckon that as long as you eat OK 80% of the time the other 20% won't hurt you so I am still having treats but probably more healthy treats instead. I haven't changed everything straight away but I am introducing different foods gradually. I have been trying to eat more regularly - 6 times a day - and also having more calories earlier on in the day.  This is quite a hard change for me because we have our main meal in the evening usually but my husband is fortunately good at making low cal meals when I tell him I only have 400 cals left!  This next week coming I am going to have soya and linseed bread (again, higher in calories than normal bread!) and I have bean salad lined up for some lunch times. 

I lost 3.4lb last week and that was after losing 4lb the week before!  My weight loss has been a bit eratic over the last couple of months because I haven't had the committment.  This new diet is proving to be successful at the moment but it will be interesting to see what happens over the next couple of weeks.

Hope all is well with you!

Tina

Well Hi there....My name is An and Im a complete newbie to the PCOS kind of lifestyle. I guess Im just in need of some support and guidelines, to avoid excessive weight gain, and those other nasty little symptoms os girls with PCOS get.

Like whats your diet plan, exercise plan etc...

Is it common for women with PCOS to see their weight fluctuate like crazy??? These past few days it wont seem to stop...specialy on days I Stop doign cardio....I gain a few grams no matter what...but on days I do some sort of cardio i tend to lose some grams....its weird as hell to me. I do pilates almost everyday, and only take a day of rest (sundays) which since I dont do anythng at all, even eating my maintanance calories make me gain like nearly half a pound...does this mean I have to exercise for life (cardio forever)

ah....Im so discouraged....specialy since Im also struggling with a ED recovery (which I was well on my way....but since I was told I have PCOS I  just seem to have lost all hope for everything) One of my biggest fear was that impossibility to lose weight....my ED makes it hard as it is, so I cant imagine how difficult it must be with PCOS right in there.

Im really disliking my life right now :(

Hi everybody, my name is Katie and I was diagnosed with PCOS when I was 17 (I'm 23 now) but my doctors think that I've been suffering from some type of metabolic hormone imbalance since I was at least 11 (good ol' puberty).  I was put on metformin in order to balance out my insulin resistance and spironolactone for the hair, which is horrendous because it seems to only affect my face and my chest.  I went to a nutritionist when I was 20 in order to figure out why, after three years of being treated, I wasn't able to lose weight and was in fact gaining weight.  According to the nutritionist (after looking over my food diary), I wasn't even eating enough to maintain my weight but she suggested I limit my carbohyrdate intake to about 30 grams per meal.  She also suggested I was tested for hypothyroidism, which I also have.  I was placed on levothyroxine and then later I was also given cytomel.  I managed to lose about twenty pounds in a matter of four days because it was all water weight but then I couldn't maintain eating only salads and a few pieces of chicken while I was at college so I gained it back and then some despite healthy food choices.

Despite being treated for PCOS and hypothyroidism for at least six years, I've actually had an increase in most of my symptoms.  Spironolactone didn't quite work and the hair got thicker and grew faster.  I'm still on Metformin but I can't lose any weight.  I was never placed on any birth control meds mainly because I don't have any issues with my period or with cysts (or at least I assume, my endo hasn't even done any scans or tests for that) and also I was told that taking Metformin plus birth control was pretty useless.  I'm going for a second opinion on treatment in about a month and hopefully I can get some answers or suggestions.

I'm currently recovering from jaw surgery, which has limited my diet to liquid for a bit now but I'm back on soft foods as of yesterday.  Since August 13th, I've managed to lose about 30 pounds but that's on a very low caloric diet of liquid.  God how I hate shakes now.  I have been told that because of the insulin resistance and because of my allergy issues (I may be gluten intolerant and fructose intolerant) I might have to go on an extremely low carb diet for the rest of my life.  I have heard that the Zone diet works well with PCOS as well as a diabetic diet, which focuses on the glycemic value of your food.

But anyway after all of that semi-depressing and science-like drabble, I joined this group because I find that it's easier to share advice and experiences when you talk to people that have dealt with similiar things.  I try to talk to my mom about it but my mom always pulls the "OH me too" type of thing and I have to remind her that 1. she's going through menopause, so weight gain is normal and so are the hot flashes (i have them. they suck.) and 2. I'm taking meds that are supposed to prevent some of the symptoms.  She doesn't quite understand.

And I hope everybody's week is going well!

Hello everyone!

My name is Charlie.  I am a 30 year old stay at home mom of two.  I was diagnosed with PCOS at the age of 20.  My first daughter was born at the age of 18 and at my six week check up, I had a weight gain of 25 pounds.  Within the next year an additional 50 pounds was added.  After numerous diet plans and exercise plans, my doctor started running tests.  My hormones were out of whack.  I didn't think too much about it at first, but as time went on, my symptoms got worse.  After a couple of years, my husband and I tried to conceive again.  After years of trying, with all the usual steps (Metformin, Clomid, etc), we were then referred to an infertility specialist.  With daily numerous shots and vaginal ultrasounds we finally conceived.  While pregnant the strangest thing occurred.  My weight was dropping.  I had lost a total of 35 pounds while pregnant.  The doctor was shocked and actually with more tests came to the conclusion that the pregnancy had offset the pcos.  Then our daughter came.  All that weight was put back on within the 6 weeks between birth and check-up.  My youngest is turning two in just three weeks and I am at the end of my rope!  My weight is still skyrocketing!  I have managed to loose a few pounds since joining cc but within the last week, have started to gain again. 

For so many years I have had absolutely no hope on loosing weight.  The results of my pcos is astounding!  I have an extremely high level of androgen (as I am sure most of you do as well), and the doctors, yes doctors, more than one, have stated...this is hilarious (At least to those who do not have pcos think so)...that do to the high levels of androgen, your body turns all the estrogen it produces into fat.  With these levels, the most you could hope is to try to maintain the weight you are currently at.  Well, that was a big kick in the behind.  All my hope was lost.  I recently started a program at my church to choose to live a healthier life...exercise and diet.  Today was our official weigh in and guess what...I gained!  Diet, exercise. It doesn't seem to matter.  I think the doctors were right. 

Well, I think that I have rambled enough.  I realize that I haven't done this in order and I more then likely left stuff out.  Sorry.  It has been a very frustrating day. 

I guess I could go into stuff about me...I live on a farm. Closest neighbor is over two miles away.  The closest little town has a population of less then 400 people.  The biggest town around is 30 miles away and has a population of less then 8,000 people.  Gyms are not an option.  I love the peacefulness and solitude that we have out here, yet I wish we had the convenience. 

 I am in need of advice if anyone has any I would be grateful.  Thank you.

Hey everybody!

It's me again.  It's a new day.  I am trying to have a better attitude then the day before.  Yesterday I was pretty distraught after finding that all the hard work (sweat, pain, and tears) was absolutely for a weight gain and not a weight loss. 

Forgive me for posting on the "welcome to the group" page, but I am computer illiterate and cannot seem to find a spot for new posts.

I have joined this group because I know there are women out there who are battling with the same thing.  PCOS is ugly!  Nobody really understands that except for those who also have it.  I guess what I am asking for is help.  Encouragement.  Advice.  Has anyone had remarkable results without medication?  If so please share or direct me to find out how.  Also, as my previous post states, I don't have access to a gym or anyone close by.  My husband is sort of encouraging, but, he tells me he loves me as I am.  Motivation is a struggle.  I find that I alone am not motivated.  Living where I live there is such a solitude that I honestly don't have that personal motivation or another soul around to share with.  Lately, I seem to be battling with depression.  I think it goes hand in hand with the weight and solitude.  When I get depressed I tend to become more of an introvert.  I know that it really isn't the time to be alone and have the self pity party, but that is just how I am. 

Please help!  Right now I feel as if any little bit would help!

Hello Everyone!

My name is Jennifer and I have been diagnosed with pcos for about 8 years.  I signed up for calorie count and this group on the same day so I am a newbie also! I live in Jacksonville Florida and I am married , have two adopted children, and a basset hound named Timmy.

Reading the posts of everyone was encouraging because we all seem to have the same basic problems and struggles.  After I was diagnosed with it, I got depressed about my fertility and inability to have children like everyone else.  For a few years I didnt do anything about my weight or my side effects I made a bad choice to ignore it.  I checked out a book at the library about pcos and it really made sense of pcos and helped motivate me.  Our chance of diabetes, heart disease, certain cancers is multiplied greatly because of the pcos Changing our eating habits 80% of the time and exercising (even just walking) for 30 minutes a day makes a difference.  I have made simple lifestyle changes and have lost about ten pounds in 3 weeks.  I have been drinking alot of water and buying fruits and vegetables and whole grain bread. 

 

Hey!

My name is Megan, and I was diagnosed with PCOS about three years ago. I just turned 21 last week (yay!), and am a student at UCF (Go Knights!)

I've been trying on and off to use Calorie Count just because my biggest issue with weight is not paying attention to what I eat. When I lived at home my life was very structured - school, band, drama, soccer, gym, etc - so I ate very regularly and normally ate healthy food. Being at college and having a crazy schedule makes it difficult to keep track of how much I eat, how often, and what I eat (eating healthy is so expensive!).

When I was first diagnosed I was still in high school, and, as I mentioned before, had a very busy schedule and easily managed to drop about 50 lbs. My first year in college wasn't so great (I actually attended UF first, hated it there) and I was very depressed and gained all that back. Now, althought I am a lot happier, I am twice as busy and find it hard to make time to eat healthy, and have been sitting at around 220-230lbs.

Otherwise, I am a proud member of the UCF Marching Knights, am a sister of Tau Beta Sigma (National Honorary Band Sorority), play lots of IM sports, and am trying to get my health and weight back on track.

It's nice to see a group of women who struggle with the same weight issues due to PCOS. Skinny girls just don't understand! :D

Hello everyone!  My name is Ashley and I'm a 28 year old housewife.  My hubby and I have been married 3 years and do not have any children.  I have been using CC for a while now, but have only been seriously counting calories since July.  So far I've lost about 25 pounds.  I started at 235 and and currently 208 pounds.  My goal is about 145-150.  I want to have kids, and the docs have told me if I can lose the weight it will be much easier.  I was diagnosed with PCOS when I was 19... almost 10 years ago.  I was a freshman in college and had started gaining weight.  When I was in high school I struggled with my weight but was only about 160 pounds... I just didn't have the body I thought I was supposed to have.   I dealt with starving myself, making myself sick, and tried every fad diet out there.  My heaviest was about 250 pounds, but I don't really know the exact weight.  I also do not produce any progesterone, so I don't know what I will need to do once I've lost the weight.  I would like to have my first baby before I turn 30 so I don't have much time, but I guess it really doesn't matter if I'm 29 or 31. 

I am currently taking ortho-tri-cyclen and metformin for the PCOS *have been taking them since being diagnosed*... and will have to take a progesterone supplement when I am ready to conceive!

I absolutely HAVE to lose the weight this time... I have not had my PCOS checked in over 5 years, but have an appointment with my new doctor in January.  My hubby and I just moved to Las Vegas, Nevada, so I have to do the whole new doctor thing... which is so frustrating when you finally find one you like and then you move!!!

Anyway, I love meeting new people, especially people who can relate to things I'm dealing with.   I look forward to getting to know everyone.

 

Original Post by mathster2005:

What is metformin for? 

Hi Tina, I haven't read all of the posts, but saw your question and thought I would answer. 

I have been on Metformin about 9 years.  It is a diabetic medication for insulin resistance.   One of the symptoms of PCOS is insulin resistance, so doctors often prescribe it for PCOS patients.  It doesn't really cause you to lose a lot of weight, but helps correct your insulin levels which can, in turn, help you lose weight.  When I first found out I had PCOS my doctor told me I needed to cut back on carbs because of my insulin resistance.  I did and lost a good bit of weight, but as soon as I started eating them again, I gained the weight back.  That is why I am now just counting calories... and eating well balanced meals.  Lots of fresh veggies and fruit... less pastas and breads.  I'm still eating carbs, but trying to eat healthier ones!

My doctor also recommended I read The Schwarzbein Principle.  http://www.schwarzbeinprinciple.com/pgs/home. html

It was very informative and helped me understand how I should be eating.

I also have this book:  The PCOS Diet Book http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/000713 1844/pcos-20

Very helpful information. 

Just a disclaimer... the reason I didn't lose the weight before wasn't because the books didn't help... I just wasn't ready to commit to do the work!!!!