He won't marry me...

okay here is the story, met my boyfriend four years ago, while he was in the middle of a divorce. I grew up in a very religieous very sheltered household (not knocking it, just the facts) anyways, was young and stupid and nieve (sp) and I actually believed him when he said he would marry me. Now fastforward four years and we have two kids, live together, our finances are together, our relationship is strained (not broken, but not great) and he doesn't want to marry me because he doesn't want to go through another divorce and since we have been fighting....you get the picture.

I don't know what to do, I feel like I am going against my faith by living with him and at the same time I am loath to give an altamatem, because I think if it came down to that he would marry me. But who wants to be married knowing that an altamatem brought it about. And if I am really honest with myself...there are parts of him that I love, but I feel like I have spent the last few years working my ass off to secure my kids future and my own and he is just lost and perfectly content to be that way.  He is 28 and has started and stopped school at least five times, has gone through several boughts of being willfully unemployed and spends most of his time playing WOW. While I am 24, finished my B.S. am halfway through my masters and I have always worked my butt off and I am the primary breadwinner and caretaker (I work nights at a hospital).

If I had to guess, most of you will say just leave him, but I still hold out hope that things will change, that he will get it together and want to marry me. And I honestly feel guilty, leaving him now that my finances are coming together and such. Has anyone gone through this? what do you think...thanks for listening I am really upset and as I was saying my life is my kids and work and I don't really have anyone to confide in.

therapy, things could work out and he might be willing to change if given the opportunity

I've never gone through this situation, but I can tell you what I would want my girlfriend to do. I would first suggest talking to him about your feelings of marriage and his ambition. If you feel he won't listen to you alone, consider talking to a counselor to mediate the conversation. The point is that you both need to make your feelings clear without interruption. Maybe he has some deeper issues that hasn't surfaced keeping him in this stall pattern.

How about counseling?  If he's not willing to work on the issues that you two have as a couple and as a family then I don't see the point in staying with him.  He has to want some things for himself.  If he doesn't contribute then he's a freeloader and if you are willing to continue this setup for the next 18 years then he's set.

Why are your finances tied up with him?  If you're not married seperate accounts are appropriate and you can certainly tell him what his half of the bills are.  Who pays for the WOW subscription and the internet?  If you are I'd consider cutting that off.

I have suggested counseling and he feels that if it is too the point where you need counseling its over... if I had to guess he would probably go if I made him. I guess I always feel like, I am always the one fighting for things to work out, whether its the relationship, school, work, the kids. I don't know if I have anymore fight in me.

as far as the finances are concerned, he hands me his check, which is about one fourth of our total income I deposite it and he just uses his card and buys whatever he wants, I handle bills, debt and stuff. I recently tried to split the finances and tried to make him get his own account because he kept on overdrawing. He got angry, saying that now that I had finished school and had a decent job I was going to lord it over him.

I honestly think he has some Passive Aggressive issues....

He sounds like a bum that's using you as a combination of personal secretary and mommy...it's a snap judgment based on limited information, but he really doesn't sound like a guy that you should want to marry.

You can't make him go to counseling, if he doesn't want to do it then it won't change anything.

When (if) he ever made more did you just hand him your check and spend whatever you wanted to?  Is this how your relationship has always worked?  What were the good times like?  Would you actually be happy if you married him and everything else were the same but you were called Mrs.?

If you have joint credit cards, cancel them and get separate cards issued in your own name on your own accounts.  It might be more difficult in the short term, but there is no recourse if he runs up the credit card bills that are in your name too and then doesn't pay them.

two years ago he recieved an advancement on his inheritance not a huge amount but a lot. for those two years he didn't work, instead he played video games and half ass'd school off and on. during that time I worked I put everything in the account and payed bills, he never questioned what or how I spent the money (although it is probably because he knew I was responsible). honestly when he got that moeny was when alot of our problems started, he just stopped caring about anything. we had huge arguments about the money I didn't want to tell him what to do but at the same time i felt that he was putting out kids at risk by not working or really truly securing his kids future. but what could i really do it was "his" money.

I think part of what attracted me to him was the fact that he was so much more layed back then me, I have always been type A and he is type D. But now its just frustrating, its one thing to take things in stride another to let life and everything in it, opportunities, friendships, etc just pass you by.

Instead of asking him to get his own account, which you've already said he's against and angry about, why not keep depositing his money in the joint account, and you get your own account. Then when one day he gets refused, maybe that will wake him up to how much he earns, and how much he spends.

Respect of other peoples money is an important life lesson, its very easy to spend other peoples money. Maybe he gets angry because he feels guilty?

Sounds like he needs a kick up the backside. Dont marry this guy simply because tradition or religion demands it. You'll be the one that has to live with him, not god. And if you have doubts already then getting married will only make things 100 times harder in the end.

Sounds like a terrible relationship but since you had kids together, there's no easy way out. Good luck.

I think by him saying a relationship is over when counseling is brought in is an excuse not to go. I think you have reached an impasse. This guy sounds like he is not ready to plan anything past his next level on his game and will bring you down emotionally and financally. Maybe he needs a wake up call. My advice would be to start making a back up plan, like finding a place for a couple of months and getting your own bank account. Without you to carry the income, he'll have to learn responsibility the hard way.

Original Post by lyf1185:

I think by him saying a relationship is over when counseling is brought in is an excuse not to go. I think you have reached an impasse. This guy sounds like he is not ready to plan anything past his next level on his game and will bring you down emotionally and financally. Maybe he needs a wake up call. My advice would be to start making a back up plan, like finding a place for a couple of months and getting your own bank account. Without you to carry the income, he'll have to learn responsibility the hard way.

I couldn't agree more.

UD

It sounds like he has been very clear about not ever wanting to get married again. Either accept it or move on to someone who will.

The guy orginally told her he would marry her and now, four years and two kids later, changed his mind. It could be fear which is why dialouge needs to happen between the two. Accept it or move on is a bit harsh considering the other factors.

It sounds to me like there are many more problems other than marriage.  People do change, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.  Marrying this man, especially if he feels forced, isn't going to improve the situation.  It would be far worse to marry him and regret it and end up paying spousal support because he wasn't working...worse would be child support.

What happened to the previous wife and were there any children?

Spousal support is unlikely if he voluntarily chose not to work. At least in my state.

But back to the original question. He could change, might change and he might not. Many marriages have begun and ended on the idea that change is possible.

Of course you don't live in the future you imagined when you met him. And he does not live in the future you imagine if he were to change. The only thing that is left is the present. Ask yourself if you can go on in the present you have now.

Can you continue as you are? You do not sound happy but perhaps you did not say you are as happy as you feel. (I doubt it though) Can you imagine yourself in the future living exactly as you do now?

There is no guarantee he won't change. He may. But that is gambling on a lot of IFs and Buts. How stalwart is your heart?

Counseling is worth the time. But counseling is not a panacea. It can only open the doors to communication -you both still have to do the work.

I am editing to add:

In many states your 4 years together is considered common law marriage.  Especially if children are involved and you have mixed your finances.  In my state you would be considered married and all laws relating to divorce would apply to you.  In my state that means you would have rights to the assets and responsibility for the debts.  Meaning, just because you dont have a registered marriage does not mean you aren't married.  It is something to think about should you decided to leave.  If you decide to leave talk to an attorney. 

You have not mentioned anything positive about him. Does he make you happy? Is he a good father? Is he helpful around the house?

This is a boy who doesn't want to grow up.If you're staying with him for the sake of the kids... what message are they getting by living in a house with a father who spends most of his time playing WOW?

First off, Is he watching the children while you are out working and going to school?  Is he doing any housework at all?
If he is then you have a non traditional household.
If he isn't then he needs to start helping out because you are basically raising three children.
As stated above, get your own bank account and deposit your cheque in it.  Let him live within his means.  Get your name off of his credit cards and have your own.  If he is watching the children and doing chores then give him an allowance.
If you stay with him and he is not contributing to the household chores or child care you need to have some money set aside for your children's future.
What happens if one day he meets another woman and decides to leave this family?  Do you have enough money set aside to pay for child care and living expenses for six months?
Protect yourself, because it doesn't look like he is protecting his family.

His first wife left him when she was seven months pregnant and pretty much said she never wanted to see him again. I was friends with him at the time (I am saying this because I probably wouldn't totally believe his portrayal otherwise)...Basically it looked and sounded like she was fed up with the same things I am frustrated with as well as the fact that she was really young and I don't think she wanted to be married. Anyways, he stayed in there (she moved out) apartment until the baby was born which he never got a call about, he found out about the birth when he read it in the paper and when he tried to visit she told him that she didn't want him around. He left, moved closer to his friends made some efforts to contact and to talk but she wasn't interested (sometimes he was nice "I just want to see my son" sometimes he wasn't "B'tch I can't believe your keeping him from me" sob, sob, sob) after two years, when the divorce finally went through and child support he ended up paying the maximum, compared to the people we know in the same income bracket he pays almost three times the amount. Probably because he didn't listen to me when I said he needed to go to court and actually fight for his rights and for the level of child support. For the most part it has always gotten paid. I think he has a lot of regrets about everything with his ex wife, I think that he wants to see his son, but thinks that it has been so long (he is four) and that he doesn't want to fight unless he can prove that he isn't the loser that they thought he was. I think that he doesn't want to marry me because it is a way for him to supposedly protect himself monetarily and emotionally.

he does watch the children while I am gone, however, I am fairly certain that his idea of watching the kids means, giving them juice and setting them in front of the TV. And the household stuff really depends on how much I complain.

looking at the bare facts I think that absolutely I should leave him. But, I feel like there is so much emotional damage from his ex, from his family (don't get me started) that I feel like I owe it to the institution of marriage/long term relationships to stick it out. has anyone ever stuck it out, really tried to work on it and had a happy ending. I feel like I am taking this huge gamble because if things don't change I will be miserable. when do you give up?

you give up when you start compromising your self respect. at that point, its time to take action and love yourself first - show him how that works.

(swearimn)

I did 24 years before I gave up, and hated damn near all of it.  I stayed with him (married in 84, separated in 88 and back together) because of emotional blackmail and because I felt our son needed his father....

I did neither one of us a favor.  He never grew up (yes, always had a job, but spent all his money + debt...), never took responsibility for his life, and my child picked up all of his bad habits... I finally walked out in Mar.

Had I done this in 88, then perhaps one or the two of us would have actually found happiness...

Run, run fast and run far.

My advice is to get out now, while you can. You already have two young kids, you don't need a third.  He has been using you all this time, what makes you think he is willing to change? Certainly he is not going to change with the way things are now. 

Kick him out and take him court to get child support. He will either shape up or ship out when you take that step.

If you keep doing what you are doing now you will never be truly happy.  Why live that way?  Believe it or not, there are many nice men out there who would love to have a wife to love and children to adore.