Yea, 9/11 was a bad event...but...

Urgg, every year its the same where people start saying how horrible 9/11 was and how tragic and how amazingly terrible an event it was...

Ok, yes, 3,000 people dieing is bad (not saying we shouldnt think of the people who were needlessly killed)... but what about the rest? Why dont i hear about the strong feelings of sadness when the day the iraq war started comes about? Is it because the people dieing there arent "one of us" ?

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Just saying, if you are talking about how horrible 9/11 was and how much it moves you and how sad you feel...you better be saying the same things towards a much more horrible event in our recent history when that day comes along.... (and not just for "our" people, you should be feeling the same thing towards ALL the innocent humans needlessly killed....)

Really bugs me when i see all the activity and "sadness"...and then the rest of the year is silent and back to normal... just smacks of phoney masks people put on....

Soldiers are getting killed for nothing, though.

9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq.  We are not in Iraq because of 9/11.  The sooner more people realize this, the better.

It's time for America to Kick ass and take names!

Umm ... to what end?

I think you need to acquaint yourself more with American history, nikkidy. Vietnam did not bring the nation together. Vietnam divided the nation, just as Iraq did. Some people felt we needed to be there.. because Communism was a plague we needed to stamp out, because we feared the domino effect. Many people felt we shouldn't be there, shouldn't be risking American lives interfering with internal affairs of a small backwater Asian nation.

Iraq is much the same.

You feel America should Kick Ass and Take Names? Whose Asses should we kick?
Well, we could kick Al Qaeda's Ass. That would make SENSE! After all, Al Qaeda attacked us. But we're not doing that. We're kicking Iraq's ass. Iraq is not Al Qaeda and is not connected to 9/11, except in W's imagination. As for ATTACKING Al Qaeda, that's not a job for the military so much as the intelligence agencies since Al Qaeda isn't a COUNTRY but a network of people all around the globe.

Soliders are getting kicked because W thought there were weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, which there aren't, but also that Iraq deserves freedom and democracy, which it's doubtful they're really ready for, and further doubtful we'll like who they'll elect.

I don't know about you all. . . but 9/11 started a horrific trend of events for our family.  My cousin Rob died in the North tower collapse, he had the chance to get out but refused and stayed back to make sure every one of his employees made it out alive. . . he did what he could to do to make it out I'm sure but wasn't one of the lucky ones.  Two weeks after that my great uncle passed from his long term parkinsons disease, and not only a week after that one of my cousins was in surgery for some random run of the mill operation (he was use to at this point became paralized 10 or so years earlier) and all of a sudden he just died on the table for no reason . . . they later had found out that his wife been giving him blood thinning drugs or something that he wasn't supposed to be on (don't know all the details)

We have no business being in Iraq -- We needed to spend that money and resources in finding Bin Laden and his followers first.  Bin Laden is still out there preaching hs message to the extreme groups and its making the world a very dangerous place.  Al Queda is the enemy.  Iraq needs to be left alone to their own resources.  If their civil war wants to continue then let them - get our folks out and move them to Afghanastan where they should have been to begin with.

 

You know what I find sad is the fact the soldiers killed in Afghanastan aren't mentioned much on the news -- its all Iraq- it seems we Americans are forgetting the original war and the real reason we should be fighting is forgotten. 

If we were fighting a war because of  the events of September 11th, we would have invaded Saudi Arabia, instead.

Oh, if only it were one man's delusional manipulations...Bush is a puppet...the real evildoers lurk at his back..and will thrive in Washington long after he has been declared the nation's worst president in history.

I have a notion we aren't fighting the war we were fighting for just the reason in Iraq.  You think it was just coincidence that we've been over there for the Palestinian uprising, the Iranian Nuclear issues, and issues that had been occurring in Lebanon?  When in doubt, invade their neighbors on "peace keeping" efforts and for good "causes".  We had lost most of a foot hold on the Middle East except in Saudi Arabia and Israel. . . it was almost inevitable with the historical family conflict between the Bush's, Sadaam Hussein and many of his delegates.  To think there isn't a bigger picture involved in this war than what is being hyped in the media is plan naive and close minded. 

The kick ass and take names means DO something anything to justify all this crap that is being called a war. no it has nothing to do with 9/11 but it did come on the heels of it. It just seems like random crap rather than a war. Like someones throwing darts at a suggestion board and says Yeah! lets do that now! and 50 idiots patting him on the back saying good job.

The war wasnt for "nothing"... we are spending insain amounts of money on it! And you know who gets that money? The private companies that are selling things to the government :)

All that money is going somewhere...and its a LOT of money....

We are talking billions and billions.....

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/Cost-of-War /Cost-of-War-3.html

Yup, there are lots of people really happy about the war right now :) 

I think you need to acquaint yourself more with American history, nikkidy. Vietnam did not bring the nation together. Vietnam divided the nation, just as Iraq did.

No it didn't bring us together but the whole nation was involved one way or the other. Everyone has their 2 cents but how many are willing to rally for it today? not many I'd say. 

Actually there are lots of anti war rallies. so people are willing to rally for what they believe in. I can't for the life of me understand why people would support the war. don't get me wrong, i support the military, hell I lost a cousin in Iraq. but asking people to blindly rally behind troops is not only ignorant but dangerous. you really need to think a bit harder about these issues, nikk. I am sure you are a really smart person, but that isn't a very smart comment.

"Some 2800 million or 46 percent of humankind live below the World Bank's $2 per day poverty line." "Over 1200 million of them live on less than half." ($1 per day.) Each year, some 18 million of them die prematurely from poverty-related causes. This is one-third of all human deaths - 50,000 every day, including 34,000 children under age five." Thomas Pogge. World Poverty and Human Rights. Blackwell. 2002. p 2.

"the World Bank (2000) estimates that 49 percent of those in sub-Saharan Africa and 44 percent of those in South Asia live below world poverty levels."
Jonathan H. Turner and Salvatore J. Babones. "Global Inequality: An Introduction." in Christopher Chase-Dunn and Salvatore J Babones. Global Social Change: Historical and Comparative Perspectives. John Hopkins UP. 2006

just a few sources that were convenient to quote from- endless similar statistics available.

Beautifully said, NYC Girl.  My husband was there that day too and barely escaped with his life.  What you described in your post was exactly what he described to me.  He watched many people jump to their deaths because they had to make the heart-wrenching choice of either burning to death or falling to their death.  He ran for his life with the thousands of people who were like rats fleeing from a sinking ship as the towers collapsed in front of them, with the sound of glass and metal shooting past their heads.  He was one of the dust-covered, devastated, broken, but ALIVE people who was fortunate enough to walk away from the tragedy of   9-11.  It is one thing to watch it on TV and say, "What about all the other stuff going in in the world?  Shouldn't we be upset about that too?"  People who say that need to remember that 9-11 was an unwarranted terrorist attack that killed thousands of people in one shot.  It was the most devastating attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor.  It happened in OUR country to OUR people.  I'm sure that all of us either know someone or know of someone who was involved in that tragedy.  That's why it remains in the hearts and the psyche of the American people.  Yes, Iraq is sad, Darfur is sad, all of it is tragic.  But when it happens to us, it hits a hell of a lot closer to home. 

It happened in OUR country to OUR people

Yes, Iraq is sad, Darfur is sad, all of it is tragic.  But when it happens to us, it hits a hell of a lot closer to home.

And thats where the problem is. We shouldnt just be caring about "our" people... what makes them so special? That they were born in the country or moved here? Does that make their pain and deaths more meaningful?

That people ignore problems unless its happening to "us" is the real shame...

Yea, darfur is sad and tragic and so are the thousands and thousands of innocent iraq citizens killed....but they arent us... when OUR people die, THEN death starts meaning something (but still, only our deaths)... ....

Deaths of the innocent should hit "closer to home" no matter where they might actually happen....they are still people, they still have lives, the only difference is the language they speak and the amount of money they have.

Sorry lorik, I dont understand how it is that you know who is or who isnt, or how many people are not REALLY mourning, that they are doing it for show. And as for all the other billions of people out there suffering or dying from terrorist attacks or wars other whatever SOOo many thousands of people do volunteer and work towards making things better, and grieve those losses. Don't forget about them...

And, just because there are OTHER atrocities going on out there in the world, doesnt mean that we cant choose to remember and mourn a day that tragedy stuck us at home, hit so close to our own hearts. Reading your words is so disheartening. It is painful. I was in the DC area that morning, there were roads blocked, my work was evacuated, and I couldnt get home for hours or get through on cell phones to my 5 year old daughter to make sure she was safe. Noone knew what was going to happen next, that was the worst fear I have ever known and thinking about it recalls those feelings. I am sorry that you cannot appreciate the gravity of how deeply it affected those close to it.

liza and NYCGirl said it. There is nothing left to be said.

I was thinking about this more on the way to lunch.

...You all forgot to mention the abused children, the abused women, the undereducated in the ghettos, the vietnam vets, the aids victims, luekemia sufferes, those with colon cancer, and on... and on...

YES, they are all horrible, but we choose the thing closest to our hearts or things that have directly affected us or hurt us and we mourn those events and we remember those anniversaries. There is Nothing wrong with that.

 

I would like to know what loriklorik is doing about the situations he's been using to chastise other people...

Lorik,

Money and language do not make a difference at all.  Not only are you getting way off subject, but that particular inference is really insulting.  Because I said, "when it happens to our people in our country", you are assuming that I do not feel anything for people who have less money or speak a different language.  That is a completely irresponsible and unfounded thing for you to say.  Look at all of the people living here in the U.S. who don't have money or speak a different language (some of whom were ALSO killed on 9/11).  Frankly, I think you're just looking for an argument and it's probably a waste of my time even replying to your post.  All I'm saying is that it is natural for a society to mourn the loss of its fellow members.  I am not saying that we shouldn't mourn the loss of all of the other people in the world who have died tragically, or that we shouldn't do what we can to aid people across the globe who are suffering.  What I don't understand is why you feel we shouldn't mourn the loss of our fellow Americans.  There's nothing wrong with being "patriotic" either.  By the way, what are you doing personally to help all of the suffering and downtrodden people of the world?  Just thought I'd ask. 

This isn?t about how we are helping the suffering / dieing.. .(that?s another subject entirely! Social responsibility is complicated)

What I am saying, is that you (general you, towards society) see the death of innocent people differently depending if they are one of ?us? or one of ?them?. I understand why. Its because for some reason its more ?real? when it happens to someone you identify yourself with.. . but I don?t think this is a good way to look at things.

The deaths of strangers living in America or the strangers living in Darfor should be the same to you. You ?should? be feeling the same distress and whatever else you are feeling for ALL the suffering / dieing innocent strangers.. . yet, you don?t.

You see ?us? dieing, and then it becomes such a horrible memorable day. You see ?them? dieing and its just the world like normal, it?s a shame, but your not going to lose your appetite over it.

I?m not saying its wrong to feel for those 3,000 that died. I am simply wondering why you feel so strongly about them when you (general you, towards society) don?t feel even remotely that strong towards the other MILLIONS that die in MUCH worse ways.

Which is why I think its all fake (not the emotions, the emotions might be real.. .but the reasons behind them are fake) People are not really caring about the lives lost, more caring about themselves / their own society.. .and that attitude is how we can so easily sit by while so many horrible things go on.

*Shrug* maybe it?s naive of me to think that people should be worried about more then themselves.

"Closer to home"... That is something I never understood. When you think about how gigantic the universe is, how mind blowingly large our galaxy is, how huge our solar system is... you realise just how small and unimportant our planet is. What does it matter that on our mere dust spec of a planet, that one bit of land doesn't touch another bit of land (anymore)? It would make more sense to unit as a planet than in countries, because when you think about the universe, suddenly Iraq, Africa, etc, doesn?t look so far.

Ahhh, media. The reason why I am studying journalism is because media is the most powerful thing there is. It can overthrow kings and start (or prevent) wars. It is the reason why my country (England) has a fountain for princess Di, yet cares little for the millions of people that die every year all over the world in car crashes. (Yes that's right, I am an English woman that hasn't jumped on the princess Di bandwagon).

But let's remember: We can't mourn for everyone. It is impossible. It would take over our lives! Of course we have to pick and choose. No one has the mental strength to mourn for all the lost innocents. So yes, we use the media (or the media uses us) to help us "decide" who we shall mourn for this week. It is sad and horrible, but necessary, just for our sanity.