Yet another question about guys

Sorry, there does seem to be a lot of these posts floating around, and I thought I might as well join in on the fun, har har.

ANYWHO, I do have a bit of a problem. There is not one, but TWO young men I am interested in. One is a friend of mine, the other is a friend of a friend of mine. Lets call guy one, well, guy one and guy two... well, you get the idea

The problem with guy one is, He's interested in another girl who -to be rather blunt- is a real B(you-know-what). She KNOWS that he likes her, and she constantly flirts with him to get things from him. And it's not just him she does it to, she does it with ANY guy she knows is either liked by another girl, or is single. She has also a 'reputation' to say the least, but that is another story entirely.
I have tried to get closer to Guy One, but she always comes up one way or another, either through conversation or physically. This girl has guy one wrapped around her finger, and had even come to my neices' Birthday party -uninvited- because she was SUPPOSED to be guy One's ride there, but she flaked and left him to be picked up by another paty member, and she came some time later and hit on every guy in the room, Guy One not excluded. I like guy one a lot as a friend, and I do have a bit of a crush on him, but I KNOW this girl is bad news, every time he tries to go on a date with her, it usually ends up with him in the cold and feeling just plain awful. I WANT him to be interested in someone better, and I don't mean just me, but ANYONE that's not as horrible as she is. Should I just back off and let him keep being hurt until he gives up?

Guy 2: I like him, but he's very, VERY quiet and shy, and I want to approach him, but trying to have a conversation with him is like playing dodge ball with Helen Keller: sad, and frustrating. I get told by my friends to just go up and talk to him, but I'm afraid of rejection, to put it bluntly.

I'm confused

Wow, sorry for that being so long... sorry for the eye-bleedingly long post

re. guy #1: I recommend you just talk to him and put it out there: "That girl will never be yours, she's playing you. When you get tired of her games, maybe we could get something going here, you and me, because I think you're kind of awesome. Then again, I'm not going to put my life on hold in the meantime, so you never know if I'll still be single by the time you wake up". Big smile, kiss on the cheek, then walk away. And wait for him to contact you after that.

re. guy # 2: "Hey, wanna go have coffee sometime?" (The very quiet and shy ones are often really into you and the conversation, while painful to you, is probably ten times more painful to him - he might well go home and berate himself for hours about what he should have said, what he couldn't say, "how could I screw it up again", etc...) You could even bring it to light, as well, which might help things - "You're always really quiet and evasive when we talk. If it's just nerves, that's cool, I don't mind at all - we can get past that as we get to know each other better. If it's because you're not into me, maybe it's best to just say it now, I promise I won't get upset, and then I won't bother you anymore".

I realize that these two recommendations require balls of steel. However, you are not dating either of these guys right now anyway: #1 is frustrating and hurting you, and #2 is a virtual stranger - so really, you have nothing to lose. Even if you do get rejected, it will demystify it and make it easier to deal with the next time (we all get rejected in this life, sometimes!). And the guys will respect you more for having been upfront with them - they are used to girls playing b.s. headgames and here you are being honest and straightforward, even if they aren't into you it won't be considered a bad thing for you to have done it. The hard part will be acting normal afterwards - the first week or two is the hardest, but then it starts to come more easily and eventually you even feel normal about it all.

I welcome our male CCers to give advice as well as to comment on this advice.

Good luck!!

I hate to ask, but why would you like someone like Guy #1 if he likes a b****? In my opinion, you can tell how a person is by the people they like. Having a crush on this b**** girl is one thing; but actually putting effort into chasing after her is useless and immature. Do you really want a guy who is as shallow and impressionable to be "wrapped around" some girl's finger? Personally, I want a guy who is smart enough to know when he is being treated badly and can think for himself.

Guy #2 I agree with trustwomen that you should just take a dive and ask him out somewhere. It's hard to really get to know a person when you don't spend any time with them one on one. If he is quiet and shy, there is no other option other than to be the first to talk. Some guys really like it when girls take control and do the asking out and such. :)

i second muttlover!  guy #1?  not worth your time.  he's got to get that immature want-what-you-can't-have crap out of his system, and it would be best if you weren't involved in the process.  guy #2, ask him to go do something.  give him two opportunities (the second date should get it through his thick guy skull that you're actually interested).  if he's still standoffish and weird after that, cut bait - there are other fish in the sea, my dear.  :)

Guy #1 as I'm reading it is a teenager or early 20s boy...they're not exactly known for their good sense in dealing with manipulative women, particularly the lying manipulative kind.  He probably genuinely has no concept of how nasty some people can be.  Until he realizes that he's allowing himself to be manipulated, I don't think there's really any room for more than friendship.  As a friend, I would tell him that what she does to him time and again stinks and that you wish he wouldn't allow her to use him that way.

Guy #2, well, no guts, no glory.  Do you have anything in common with him?  Can you arrange for group type dates where he's not going to be expected to know what to do on a real date?  Play games, go to the beach, the movies, etc.?

It seems to me that guys like Guy #1 are so into that type of woman that they end up marrying one.  And they're the guy that you look at ten years later and think, why on earth did he marry her?  He could have had any girl and he chose her?  So, tough as it may be, I agree with the others who say to stay his friend, maybe give him a bit of advice, but don't look for a relationship with him.

And Guy #2?  I've dated a number of quiet guys, and I strongly suggest that you give it a shot.  Not to stereotype, but once they know that you like them, quiet guys can often be very attentive, and very loyal.  They don't make a lot of friends, so they're very close to the people they do consider friends.  Definitely worth the effort.

Good luck!

GUY #1:  My best advice is to continue to let him be left out in the cold - I ahte to say this, but he is not gonna get it.  He sees her and his mind has some pathetic fantasy of them together.  Say nothing to him about the big B.  Either he won't believe you because you ripping on her sounds jealously "B"-like yourself [in his mind] or he will make excuses for her because he is interested in her.  Don't play the game - you won't win in the way you want. Best way to forget a guy you think you want? Go out with another guy which leads us to ...

GUY #2: Ok, he is very quiet which means he is very shy, does not have tons of people skills, and is scared that people don't really like him. All of this works in your favorand chances are he already likes you because you give him 'the time of day.'  So all he needs is a little push. You really need to try touching on different topics that he might like and once you find one, I bet anything he starts opening up to you.  I like the quiet ones, they tend to be good listeners, really nice and actually care about your feelings because they know what it is like to feel wanted and hurt by mean people.

My 2 cents, do with it what you will.  I hope you find happiness

Thank you for all of your input :)

I'm over guy 1 (as much as I can be) and next time I see guy 2, well, hopefully I can strike up some convo with him and pry him out onto a date :)